Discussion
It was pointed out on my new car thread that the Pirelli P-Zeros on my new 650s aren’t great in the cold and damp, so should probably be changed.
Given that I’ll keep the current tyres to go back on in the summer, I don’t need year-round tyres for winter, I can just get whatever’s best for the conditions in the UK.
Conversely, I’ll not be out intentionally in snow and ice either,
Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to go? This is for normal road use, so I won’t be tending to want to have to work to get any heat in them, I just want good grip when it’s really chilly.
Given that I’ll keep the current tyres to go back on in the summer, I don’t need year-round tyres for winter, I can just get whatever’s best for the conditions in the UK.
Conversely, I’ll not be out intentionally in snow and ice either,
Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best way to go? This is for normal road use, so I won’t be tending to want to have to work to get any heat in them, I just want good grip when it’s really chilly.
Not sure what winter tyres are available for your car but as a general rule I am a big fan. I had a set on a BMW 123D daily (lots of torque) and it was excellent in the cold/ wet. Most manufacturers will do winter tyres now so I guess it’s a case of trying to find the right sizes. Mine wereGoodyear from memory and designed to offer better grip than “standard” tyres in temps below 7 deg whether wet or dry.
Cheaper to buy a spare set of rims and a set of winter tyres than pay out an insurance excess and subsequent loss in value in my view.
Cheaper to buy a spare set of rims and a set of winter tyres than pay out an insurance excess and subsequent loss in value in my view.
I have a Lotus Evora mk1, which came with the OEM specs Pirelli P-zero when I bought it. Once they were worn I switched over to Michelin and found the tyres better in every way. Dry grip, wet grip, comfort, noise, feedback you name it better (apart form price) and the difference was noticeable even when driving normally in traffic ie not on a fun drive (I used the Evora pretty much as a daily driver). I've tried a few of the Michelin tyres and I've recently got the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (PS4S) and would highly recommend these and they should give you better and safer handling than the P-zeros.
Reading more recent tyre reviews both Continental and Goodyear have equally good tyres if not better to the Michelin. The other two offering a sportier ride while the Michelin better ride quality and maybe better all rounder tyre. Which sounds like it might suit your needs better?
I also have a set of winter tyres for my Evora and I would highly recommend these to anyone regularly diving their cars over winter. You don't need snow and ice for the winter tyres to be useful. They cope better with the lower temps, a summer tyre can feel a little plasticy when cold while the winters remain sift and payable and key into the road surface better. The winters also cope much better in the wet as they are able to clear the water better and much less likely to aquaplane.
Manufactures have been making winter tyres for high performance cars for a few years now. I am using the Michelin Alpin 4, these are not the most recent design but they are what was available in my size. Your car should have much larger wheels compared to mine and should open you up to the more recent offerings. Last winter when I was doing research, Michelin and Continental came up best in the UHP category.
So in summary a newer set of summer should give you better performance compared to the p zero but if you have the ability to run two sets of wheels I would very highly recommend a set of proper winter tyres.
Reading more recent tyre reviews both Continental and Goodyear have equally good tyres if not better to the Michelin. The other two offering a sportier ride while the Michelin better ride quality and maybe better all rounder tyre. Which sounds like it might suit your needs better?
I also have a set of winter tyres for my Evora and I would highly recommend these to anyone regularly diving their cars over winter. You don't need snow and ice for the winter tyres to be useful. They cope better with the lower temps, a summer tyre can feel a little plasticy when cold while the winters remain sift and payable and key into the road surface better. The winters also cope much better in the wet as they are able to clear the water better and much less likely to aquaplane.
Manufactures have been making winter tyres for high performance cars for a few years now. I am using the Michelin Alpin 4, these are not the most recent design but they are what was available in my size. Your car should have much larger wheels compared to mine and should open you up to the more recent offerings. Last winter when I was doing research, Michelin and Continental came up best in the UHP category.
So in summary a newer set of summer should give you better performance compared to the p zero but if you have the ability to run two sets of wheels I would very highly recommend a set of proper winter tyres.
electro_boy said:
I have a Lotus Evora mk1, which came with the OEM specs Pirelli P-zero when I bought it. Once they were worn I switched over to Michelin and found the tyres better in every way. Dry grip, wet grip, comfort, noise, feedback you name it better (apart form price) and the difference was noticeable even when driving normally in traffic ie not on a fun drive (I used the Evora pretty much as a daily driver). I've tried a few of the Michelin tyres and I've recently got the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (PS4S) and would highly recommend these and they should give you better and safer handling than the P-zeros.
Reading more recent tyre reviews both Continental and Goodyear have equally good tyres if not better to the Michelin. The other two offering a sportier ride while the Michelin better ride quality and maybe better all rounder tyre. Which sounds like it might suit your needs better?
I also have a set of winter tyres for my Evora and I would highly recommend these to anyone regularly diving their cars over winter. You don't need snow and ice for the winter tyres to be useful. They cope better with the lower temps, a summer tyre can feel a little plasticy when cold while the winters remain sift and payable and key into the road surface better. The winters also cope much better in the wet as they are able to clear the water better and much less likely to aquaplane.
Manufactures have been making winter tyres for high performance cars for a few years now. I am using the Michelin Alpin 4, these are not the most recent design but they are what was available in my size. Your car should have much larger wheels compared to mine and should open you up to the more recent offerings. Last winter when I was doing research, Michelin and Continental came up best in the UHP category.
So in summary a newer set of summer should give you better performance compared to the p zero but if you have the ability to run two sets of wheels I would very highly recommend a set of proper winter tyres.
Thanks.Reading more recent tyre reviews both Continental and Goodyear have equally good tyres if not better to the Michelin. The other two offering a sportier ride while the Michelin better ride quality and maybe better all rounder tyre. Which sounds like it might suit your needs better?
I also have a set of winter tyres for my Evora and I would highly recommend these to anyone regularly diving their cars over winter. You don't need snow and ice for the winter tyres to be useful. They cope better with the lower temps, a summer tyre can feel a little plasticy when cold while the winters remain sift and payable and key into the road surface better. The winters also cope much better in the wet as they are able to clear the water better and much less likely to aquaplane.
Manufactures have been making winter tyres for high performance cars for a few years now. I am using the Michelin Alpin 4, these are not the most recent design but they are what was available in my size. Your car should have much larger wheels compared to mine and should open you up to the more recent offerings. Last winter when I was doing research, Michelin and Continental came up best in the UHP category.
So in summary a newer set of summer should give you better performance compared to the p zero but if you have the ability to run two sets of wheels I would very highly recommend a set of proper winter tyres.
There's a brand-new set of satin-black rims on eBay for £1,500, so I may well get those. Another reason for a second set is that you can apprently only refurbish the wheels twice at most before they need to be replaced, and if this car turns out to be a keeper I'd hate to realise in a couple of years that I need to pay £7,000 for a new set from McLaren as the supply on ebay has dried up.
There's a set at a similar price with four winter tyres already on, but the wheels aren't new, and it's hard to tell if the slight damage that they have is a problem or not.
When I had my F90 M5 I bought a set of winters for it. My experience wasn't good as the big block tread made the handling awful. If you live in the highlands or plan trips to the Alps this winter then great. However don't buy them if you live in the South of England or just for rain.
Jonny TVR said:
When I had my F90 M5 I bought a set of winters for it. My experience wasn't good as the big block tread made the handling awful. If you live in the highlands or plan trips to the Alps this winter then great. However don't buy them if you live in the South of England or just for rain.
I've a Range Rover with proper all-season chunky tyres for the really bad weather, but after losing grip on a cold and greasy A-road at 95mph at the weekend want to swap out the P-Zeros that the car came with.One option is to enjoy a few track days down the road at Brands until they are used-up, and then just stick on far better year-round tyres and be done with it.
Kent Border Kenny said:
I've a Range Rover with proper all-season chunky tyres for the really bad weather, but after losing grip on a cold and greasy A-road at 95mph at the weekend want to swap out the P-Zeros that the car came with.
One option is to enjoy a few track days down the road at Brands until they are used-up, and then just stick on far better year-round tyres and be done with it.
That sounds nasty!One option is to enjoy a few track days down the road at Brands until they are used-up, and then just stick on far better year-round tyres and be done with it.
Yes the mistake I made was going for winters when I should have gone for all weather ones.
Was out in my 488 last night and it was icy .. got to be careful.
Edited by Jonny TVR on Thursday 5th November 13:27
Kent Border Kenny said:
DO you recommend Pilot SPort 4s for all-year use then?
I had pirelli on my 458 when I got it, changed for PS4S and the difference was staggering. Transformed the car in all weathers.As an aside - just picked up a Tesla Model3 performance and it came with PS4S also and I've driven it in some pretty awful weather and been very impressed with the grip - which I put largely down to the PS4S. Never driven them in below zero yet, but in comaprison to normal summer tyres they are very very good in the wet.
Kent Border Kenny said:
DO you recommend Pilot SPort 4s for all-year use then?
I find the Sport 4s poor in very cold weather... sorry they are not an all weather tyre in my experience. Run Alpins Winters on my F90 M5C (4’s rest of the time) and improves the car below 7-8 degrees. Steering feels a little different for first couple of days and you can feel the give in the blocks a little but not unpleasant. At least I know I can push on without any worries No matter what the conditions. If you are planning on using your Mc over winter with any enthusiasm and regularity I would get some dedicated winters. That said, I’ve managed to still get out an about in my Ferrari’s over the years without issue as long as I’ve taken it easy and avoided icy days.I had Pirelli Sottozeros for winter months on my Lambos. Similarly to Gary above they feel a bit squirmy but never suddenly gave way like the P zeros. My understanding is that the compound is designed to work much better at 7*C and below and hence are useful for our winters. I have driven them in snow, which was fine, but I think it's more about cold and damp that we typically get in most of the UK, I'm based in N Yorkshire. One thing you will notice as soon as you swap over to the summer tyres is that the ultimate level of grip is much higher, but I did enjoy the more predictable feeling of the sottozeros for this time of year. Personally, as you seem keen to drive your car, I would try a set. As others have posted there are alternatives but Lambo would only approve the Pirelli ones so I have nothing to compare against in that respect. Enjoy your lovely car.
sardis said:
I had Pirelli Sottozeros for winter months on my Lambos. Similarly to Gary above they feel a bit squirmy but never suddenly gave way like the P zeros. My understanding is that the compound is designed to work much better at 7*C and below and hence are useful for our winters. I have driven them in snow, which was fine, but I think it's more about cold and damp that we typically get in most of the UK, I'm based in N Yorkshire. One thing you will notice as soon as you swap over to the summer tyres is that the ultimate level of grip is much higher, but I did enjoy the more predictable feeling of the sottozeros for this time of year. Personally, as you seem keen to drive your car, I would try a set. As others have posted there are alternatives but Lambo would only approve the Pirelli ones so I have nothing to compare against in that respect. Enjoy your lovely car.
Thanks, I think I will.Jonny TVR said:
When I had my F90 M5 I bought a set of winters for it. My experience wasn't good as the big block tread made the handling awful. If you live in the highlands or plan trips to the Alps this winter then great. However don't buy them if you live in the South of England or just for rain.
What tyres do you use? Thats not been my experience with my Evora and Michelin Alpin 4. The tread moves a little on initial turn in but after that is stable, it takes a little time to get used but you soon adjust and its not an issue. Maybe as my car is light and has (relatively) low power I don't notice as much compared something much heavier and more power? But for me I found much better grip in low temps ~8degC and below, a little better grip in the wet and much better resistance to aqua planning. The slightly slower initial turn in was a compromise I am more than happy to make compared to the gains in other areas. Kent Border Kenny said:
I've a Range Rover with proper all-season chunky tyres for the really bad weather, but after losing grip on a cold and greasy A-road at 95mph at the weekend want to swap out the P-Zeros that the car came with.
I'd recommend getting rid of the P-Zeros regardless and swapping for new summer tyres, you are going to have a better time with newer offerings form either Mich, Conti or Goodyear. You have little to lose as you'll use them next summer anyways. If it turns out they are not quite enough still you can look in to getting winters or even all season tyres in the UHP category. The all seasons will cope better in warm dry conditions better than the winters especially under braking. Cope better in cold and wet than the summers. They wont cope as well in snow and ice compared to winters but then you have the Range Rover for that.It’s quite simple. Regardless of whether you live in the Highlands or the south of England, once temperatures drop below 7c you are better off on winter tyres.
In terms of brands, you will be fine with anything from Conti, Michelin, Pirelli or Vredestein. I have personal experience with the Vredesteins, Contis and Michelins but the Pirellis are well regarded by FF owners who tend to be more willing to take a 4WD Ferrari out in inclement weather.
Edited to add: I just realised that my wife’s V8 Vantage ran Pirellis so I’ve had a good experience with the Sottozeros too.
In terms of brands, you will be fine with anything from Conti, Michelin, Pirelli or Vredestein. I have personal experience with the Vredesteins, Contis and Michelins but the Pirellis are well regarded by FF owners who tend to be more willing to take a 4WD Ferrari out in inclement weather.
Edited to add: I just realised that my wife’s V8 Vantage ran Pirellis so I’ve had a good experience with the Sottozeros too.
Edited by ANOpax on Friday 6th November 09:10
ANOpax said:
It’s quite simple. Regardless of whether you live in the Highlands or the south of England, once temperatures drop below 7c you are better off on winter tyres.
It’s not possible for that to be any better than a rough rule of thumb. Some extremely sticky rubber that can get some heat into it could be better to a lower temperature, and a five year-ok’d Ching-long bargain special radial could be outperformed by the winter tyre even on a summer’s day.I think that the issue here is that I’ve tyres that are particularly bad in the cold and damp, not just that they are summer tyres.
Kent Border Kenny said:
It’s not possible for that to be any better than a rough rule of thumb. Some extremely sticky rubber that can get some heat into it could be better to a lower temperature, and a five year-ok’d Ching-long bargain special radial could be outperformed by the winter tyre even on a summer’s day.
I think that the issue here is that I’ve tyres that are particularly bad in the cold and damp, not just that they are summer tyres.
No. It’s really that simple and it’s not a rule of thumb. I think that the issue here is that I’ve tyres that are particularly bad in the cold and damp, not just that they are summer tyres.
The tread patterns and compounds are vastly different.
Take a look at any of the literature from the tyre companies and you’ll understand why.
I’ve been using winter tyres for over a decade and it continues to frustrate me how limited winter tyre adoption is in the U.K. is compared to other northern European countries. There is a common (mis)perception that they’re only useful in the snow but it’s all about temperature, not whether the road is dry, wet, icy or snow covered.
The crossover temperature at 7c is where winter and summer tyres perform equally. Above that, use a summer compound and tread. Below that, use a winter compound and tread.
And yes, you’re right about the PZeros. They need more heat than the MPS4S but they’ll still be better than a winter tyre at 8c or above.
Edited by ANOpax on Thursday 5th November 19:16
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