Has your tolerance of a car's faults decreased with age ?
Discussion
Millenia ago , when I was young , and the Earth had not fully cooled , I was so enamored by any car , that whatever fault it threw at me was happily and gracefully accepted .
My first toy car , a Triumph Spitfire , should have been consigned to the bin the same day that I bought it , but I persevered with it for 6 years .
Big Mistake .
With time , I have become less forgiving .
This thread is not about any particular marque , but about the owner , and how their attitude has changed with age , experience and advancing dementia .
So for some examples :
1) Prototype Brooke 260 RR - dumped half its brake fluid on the front lawn within half an hour of being delivered .
Brooke sorted it out the same day .
2) Porsche 944 turbo - Drove it to the Loire 2 days after getting it , and on arrival at the hotel found that the separate cooling circuit for the turbo bearings was running continuously .
AFN Guildford suggested removing the relevant fuse half an hour after every drive , and that sorted the problem out until i returned to the UK .
3) The morning after picking up the 355 GTB 2.7 , the coolant check light lit up , and the car had to be transported to a dealer .
Not a cheap fix , but the car was pretty faultless for the next 9 years that I had it .
But I was always obsessed with the coolant gauge thereafter .
4) Took the Countach QV to the Dordogne the week after i got it , and a further week into the trip , the oil pressure gauge needle didn't rise up after the ignition key was turned to its first click .
I was terrified of starting the engine , so didn't , but the French AA man found that it was simply a corroded fuse , and all was soon hunky-dory .
5) Next year , same place , and half way through the trip , the Countach wouldn't start .
French AA man diagnosed a failed ignition pack .
They transported the car back to the UK .
MD and independents couldn't find an ignition pack , but a contact at Sant' Agata found the last one of a batch still on their shelves , and couriered it to the UK .
6) Murcie Roadster lit up all its warning lights at delivery .
Awful trader , but delightful judge .
A leaking brake fluid pipe .
7) Brand new 981 Boxster S that was undrivable .
Spoke to the Dealer principal , and Reading took it in later that week .
After their Gold Technician reset the Geometry , and all was well , in fact all was brilliant .
8) KTM X-BOW R threw a check engine light a couple of weeks after i picked it up , and a couple of hours before I was due to do a demo run in it at the Beaulieu Supercar Showdown
A simple failed lambda sensor -- soon replaced .
So once again , this thread is not about pointing a finger at any particular marque , but rather about asking how you as an owner react to a faulty car , especially if it presents you with a problem very early in your ownership .
I tend to keep my cars for a very long time , and every one of the examples mentioned above has been fine in the long term , but i have to admit that an early fault does undermine confidence , and it then takes quite some time to rebuild that eroded confidence .
Every one of these cars i still have , or have kept for the better part of a decade , so while these events were unwelcome , they didn't make me give up on the car .
What are your experiences , how have you reacted , and has your sense of alarm with a fault changed with age and experience ?
Are you less tolerant of a car's failings as you grow older ?
( PS : Both my Series 1 MX5s have been bulletproof , which is one key reason why i love them so much )
My first toy car , a Triumph Spitfire , should have been consigned to the bin the same day that I bought it , but I persevered with it for 6 years .
Big Mistake .
With time , I have become less forgiving .
This thread is not about any particular marque , but about the owner , and how their attitude has changed with age , experience and advancing dementia .
So for some examples :
1) Prototype Brooke 260 RR - dumped half its brake fluid on the front lawn within half an hour of being delivered .
Brooke sorted it out the same day .
2) Porsche 944 turbo - Drove it to the Loire 2 days after getting it , and on arrival at the hotel found that the separate cooling circuit for the turbo bearings was running continuously .
AFN Guildford suggested removing the relevant fuse half an hour after every drive , and that sorted the problem out until i returned to the UK .
3) The morning after picking up the 355 GTB 2.7 , the coolant check light lit up , and the car had to be transported to a dealer .
Not a cheap fix , but the car was pretty faultless for the next 9 years that I had it .
But I was always obsessed with the coolant gauge thereafter .
4) Took the Countach QV to the Dordogne the week after i got it , and a further week into the trip , the oil pressure gauge needle didn't rise up after the ignition key was turned to its first click .
I was terrified of starting the engine , so didn't , but the French AA man found that it was simply a corroded fuse , and all was soon hunky-dory .
5) Next year , same place , and half way through the trip , the Countach wouldn't start .
French AA man diagnosed a failed ignition pack .
They transported the car back to the UK .
MD and independents couldn't find an ignition pack , but a contact at Sant' Agata found the last one of a batch still on their shelves , and couriered it to the UK .
6) Murcie Roadster lit up all its warning lights at delivery .
Awful trader , but delightful judge .
A leaking brake fluid pipe .
7) Brand new 981 Boxster S that was undrivable .
Spoke to the Dealer principal , and Reading took it in later that week .
After their Gold Technician reset the Geometry , and all was well , in fact all was brilliant .
8) KTM X-BOW R threw a check engine light a couple of weeks after i picked it up , and a couple of hours before I was due to do a demo run in it at the Beaulieu Supercar Showdown
A simple failed lambda sensor -- soon replaced .
So once again , this thread is not about pointing a finger at any particular marque , but rather about asking how you as an owner react to a faulty car , especially if it presents you with a problem very early in your ownership .
I tend to keep my cars for a very long time , and every one of the examples mentioned above has been fine in the long term , but i have to admit that an early fault does undermine confidence , and it then takes quite some time to rebuild that eroded confidence .
Every one of these cars i still have , or have kept for the better part of a decade , so while these events were unwelcome , they didn't make me give up on the car .
What are your experiences , how have you reacted , and has your sense of alarm with a fault changed with age and experience ?
Are you less tolerant of a car's failings as you grow older ?
( PS : Both my Series 1 MX5s have been bulletproof , which is one key reason why i love them so much )
Good post 
Going back a bit (and tbh, I'm very careful about posting in the Supercar section, as I hardly qualify), but happy to join in.
My first "grown-up" car - a 306 XSi. Had a flat: no locking wheelnut key. Dealer hadn't included it in the sale and blamed me for losing it.
Same car through a piston. Same dealer accused me (as I looked young) that I'd ragged the hell out of it. Not the case. Ended up going 50/50.
2nd Subaru Impreza Turbo - on the day we went to collect it, had a call saying that the car had piston-slap and they were going to sort it. Delay of a week and a Lexus courtesy car.
Same car was victim to the alarm system that wouldn't work under a telephone mast. Again fixed by dealership.
Golf GTi (mk5) - faultless apart from the rear wiper wanting to do its own thing whenever it wanted (told "they all do that")
Audi S4 Bi-Turbo - failed alternator whilst wife was driving her parents to us for Christmas.
Porsche 996 (the one with the chocolate engine?) - yeh, I had the rebuild (ouch).
So nothing super major (Porsche aside). My tolerance towards the issues tends to moreso correlate with the expenditure rather than age (of vehicle and myself!).
I tend to roll my eyes these days as its just a car. The 996 is an old car. I love it, but I'm under no illusions that it can be a little troublesome. EG, it's just failed the MOT. Flew through all the usual bits and bombed on the emissions. BIG time. Turns out the one lambda had "fallen" out of the cat (rusted crush washers), and the other one had totally failed.
Replaced them and it flew through the retest.
But my attitude was one of intrigue rather than annoyance. Supported by the fact I'm working from home at the moment, and I don't need the car running (there's 3 other vehicles on the drive).
If I needed the car (as it's also my daily driver when I eventually go back to work), I would expect a little more stress though
Dan
Going back a bit (and tbh, I'm very careful about posting in the Supercar section, as I hardly qualify), but happy to join in.
My first "grown-up" car - a 306 XSi. Had a flat: no locking wheelnut key. Dealer hadn't included it in the sale and blamed me for losing it.
Same car through a piston. Same dealer accused me (as I looked young) that I'd ragged the hell out of it. Not the case. Ended up going 50/50.
2nd Subaru Impreza Turbo - on the day we went to collect it, had a call saying that the car had piston-slap and they were going to sort it. Delay of a week and a Lexus courtesy car.
Same car was victim to the alarm system that wouldn't work under a telephone mast. Again fixed by dealership.
Golf GTi (mk5) - faultless apart from the rear wiper wanting to do its own thing whenever it wanted (told "they all do that")
Audi S4 Bi-Turbo - failed alternator whilst wife was driving her parents to us for Christmas.
Porsche 996 (the one with the chocolate engine?) - yeh, I had the rebuild (ouch).
So nothing super major (Porsche aside). My tolerance towards the issues tends to moreso correlate with the expenditure rather than age (of vehicle and myself!).
I tend to roll my eyes these days as its just a car. The 996 is an old car. I love it, but I'm under no illusions that it can be a little troublesome. EG, it's just failed the MOT. Flew through all the usual bits and bombed on the emissions. BIG time. Turns out the one lambda had "fallen" out of the cat (rusted crush washers), and the other one had totally failed.
Replaced them and it flew through the retest.
But my attitude was one of intrigue rather than annoyance. Supported by the fact I'm working from home at the moment, and I don't need the car running (there's 3 other vehicles on the drive).
If I needed the car (as it's also my daily driver when I eventually go back to work), I would expect a little more stress though
Dan
I have a differing perpesctive depending on the roll of the car.
I have a daily driver which I generally buy new and buy extended warranty. It needs to work every time all the time and I have zero tolerance with problems. It starts to go wrong - even with warranty - It's gone and replaced.
Second and third cars (whatever they may be) are generally toys and I'm much more tolerant of problems as particularly with the older models, tinkering and modification is part of the ownership enjoyment., that comes with the odd mishap.
I have a daily driver which I generally buy new and buy extended warranty. It needs to work every time all the time and I have zero tolerance with problems. It starts to go wrong - even with warranty - It's gone and replaced.
Second and third cars (whatever they may be) are generally toys and I'm much more tolerant of problems as particularly with the older models, tinkering and modification is part of the ownership enjoyment., that comes with the odd mishap.
Edited by 21ATS on Sunday 23 August 14:24
I expect modern stuff to just work, but the daily does do the odd thing, off and off fixes it.
Our mk5 GTi had the wiper with a mind of its own too.
The 911 just works, nothing really to go wrong, after 15 years it always just starts. At 33 years old I would still just put gas in and go. No worries.
The Ferrari hasn’t done anything weird yet either, but this is the one I expect to do so. Maybe just hearing that they can be temperamental means I expect it. But I now have faith in it and ready to hit the continent Doh!
Our mk5 GTi had the wiper with a mind of its own too.
The 911 just works, nothing really to go wrong, after 15 years it always just starts. At 33 years old I would still just put gas in and go. No worries.
The Ferrari hasn’t done anything weird yet either, but this is the one I expect to do so. Maybe just hearing that they can be temperamental means I expect it. But I now have faith in it and ready to hit the continent Doh!
I've never been particularly tolerant but with age I find I no longer have the toolset or confidence to tackle much in the way of faults or maintenance myself. Silly really as there appears to be an online video guide for everything, which is often more informative than a Haynes manual.
A couple of examples that spoiled the ownership experience from me;
Specialist dealer demonstrated how to lower the hood when I picked up my F355 Spyder, which involved pushing the hood back manually after the mechanism bleeped. Next day I tried to lower the hood and it got stuck half way. Took ages to fix. I suspect the elastic retaining straps were tired, hence the dealers manual intervention/workaround. Lowering the hood was always a faff, not helped by upsetting the neighbours due to the sports exhaust reverberating off the walls of my apartments underground parking whilst I fannied with the roof and tonneau clips.
Had a DB9 Volante delivered last year with a Timeless warranty. Was annoyed that little things hadn't been checked like the boot light not working and paint not properly polished. Two days later the car wouldn't start and, to their credit, the dealer came down from the north of England to fit a new battery (per AM Assist fault diagnosis). Few days later it again failed to start so I sent the car back on a low loader and got my money back. Once fixed I would still always have worried if the car was going to start.
A couple of examples that spoiled the ownership experience from me;
Specialist dealer demonstrated how to lower the hood when I picked up my F355 Spyder, which involved pushing the hood back manually after the mechanism bleeped. Next day I tried to lower the hood and it got stuck half way. Took ages to fix. I suspect the elastic retaining straps were tired, hence the dealers manual intervention/workaround. Lowering the hood was always a faff, not helped by upsetting the neighbours due to the sports exhaust reverberating off the walls of my apartments underground parking whilst I fannied with the roof and tonneau clips.
Had a DB9 Volante delivered last year with a Timeless warranty. Was annoyed that little things hadn't been checked like the boot light not working and paint not properly polished. Two days later the car wouldn't start and, to their credit, the dealer came down from the north of England to fit a new battery (per AM Assist fault diagnosis). Few days later it again failed to start so I sent the car back on a low loader and got my money back. Once fixed I would still always have worried if the car was going to start.
Driving classic cars most of my motoring years having passed my driving test 5 days after my 17th birthday you could say i know my way round them ,A screwdriver in one pocket and a spanner in the other and as long as you have a spark and petrol if you break down in a classic you should be able to at least limp home.Now 68 going on 19 i can tolerate it when a classic gives trouble as i can write a book on my 51 years of breakdowns but at my age i would prefer that i get to a car show and back again, but if i'm going to have trouble i'd rather have it on the way back as at least i've had a good day out . I try not to whinge when things go wrong as it's my choice to drive older cars but depending on things like where you break down, the weather and the added stress if you have lady's on board , i must admit that my patience isn't what it was.On the way to Goodwood for either the Members meeting or the Revival you always see a number classic cars mainly prewar at the roadside with their lady all dressed for the occasion and going no where apart from the back of a truck,I really feel for them as been there so many times myself.
I must admit to cheating the last couple of Goodwood events and have taken my daily driver just for the peace of mind that i will get see the whole days activates not half but feel a little sadness that i'm missing out on not being part of the whole experience when i walk through the classic car park .
Now with my daily i am less forgiving and want it to start immediately and get me there and back with no problems, My daily i currently drive is the best car that i've ever owned but also the most boring, A Lexus that i bought by accident from the sole owner who at the age of 82 had retired from driving ,not my choice but i needed a car quickly . Covered 27k trouble free miles this year and after checking the oil i have never had to top it up and looks like it was put in yesterday which is a far cry from my previous daily driver, a Alfa GTA 3.2 absolutely loved that car but in the 3 years i owned it my friendly and very capable Alfa specialist must had the car 2/3 of that time ,I had to keep my old trusted Citroen diesel taxed and m.o.t'd for when the Alfa let me down. At least once a month something would either fall off or ceased to function . That's when i realised that as much as i adored it my threshold of patience had run out ,trouble was that every time i collected it from the workshop and it was running great i fell in love with it again and put off selling it, It was like a high maintenance Italian mistress that you knew she was no good for you but once you gave her another drive all was forgiven.
Sad to say the 2 most reliable cars i've ever owned are Japanese along with the Lexus i own a l.h.d 08 MX5 which i've had now for 8 years and apart from this year has taken us trouble free down to Southern Spain for the last 6 years and a road trip around Italy and never missed a beat.
What a good question as i've never really thought about it up till now .I would say that yes my tolerance level has declined but more with modern cars that are to technical for me to fiddle with. If i want to continue to drive the older stuff i need to be as patient as ever as is nature of the beast.
.
I must admit to cheating the last couple of Goodwood events and have taken my daily driver just for the peace of mind that i will get see the whole days activates not half but feel a little sadness that i'm missing out on not being part of the whole experience when i walk through the classic car park .
Now with my daily i am less forgiving and want it to start immediately and get me there and back with no problems, My daily i currently drive is the best car that i've ever owned but also the most boring, A Lexus that i bought by accident from the sole owner who at the age of 82 had retired from driving ,not my choice but i needed a car quickly . Covered 27k trouble free miles this year and after checking the oil i have never had to top it up and looks like it was put in yesterday which is a far cry from my previous daily driver, a Alfa GTA 3.2 absolutely loved that car but in the 3 years i owned it my friendly and very capable Alfa specialist must had the car 2/3 of that time ,I had to keep my old trusted Citroen diesel taxed and m.o.t'd for when the Alfa let me down. At least once a month something would either fall off or ceased to function . That's when i realised that as much as i adored it my threshold of patience had run out ,trouble was that every time i collected it from the workshop and it was running great i fell in love with it again and put off selling it, It was like a high maintenance Italian mistress that you knew she was no good for you but once you gave her another drive all was forgiven.
Sad to say the 2 most reliable cars i've ever owned are Japanese along with the Lexus i own a l.h.d 08 MX5 which i've had now for 8 years and apart from this year has taken us trouble free down to Southern Spain for the last 6 years and a road trip around Italy and never missed a beat.
What a good question as i've never really thought about it up till now .I would say that yes my tolerance level has declined but more with modern cars that are to technical for me to fiddle with. If i want to continue to drive the older stuff i need to be as patient as ever as is nature of the beast.
.
Edited by rat rod on Monday 24th August 11:42
Lovely post this, yes my patience has evaporated, nigh on 65 now and like others grew up able to repair anything almost, but now eyesight a little less good, body flexibility same,
My 360 spider I sold because eventually after, engine ECU failure , then third gear synchro, then finally rear main seal my confidence waned.
So now my daily is Volvo XC60, and fun car Boxster S 987 with full Porsche warranty which is a most trouble free peace of mind way forward for me.
Most happy to see and enjoy the older classics and still love the golden age of motoring though.
Mike
My 360 spider I sold because eventually after, engine ECU failure , then third gear synchro, then finally rear main seal my confidence waned.
So now my daily is Volvo XC60, and fun car Boxster S 987 with full Porsche warranty which is a most trouble free peace of mind way forward for me.
Most happy to see and enjoy the older classics and still love the golden age of motoring though.
Mike
Concur with many of the comments here. My first Ferrari when I was 25 (a big financial risk for me at the time) I was driving a few miles away from home and the clutch went with an almighty bang. Pulled over by the side of the road near a police station and called the AA. Cue an hour of witty comments from the coppers going back and forth about their Metro going quicker, if you want to pull women that's not the place to park up etc etc etc, though a few did offer help.
An hour or two later, AA truck finally arrives. Guess what, Ferrari too low to go on the truck. Shrug of the shoulders and off the AA bloke went.
All this while the thought is going through my mind that if this costs thousands to repair it's money I didn't have as a young man (had no qualms in those days about spending every penny I had on a car).
Anyway managed to bump start the car and limped a mile home. Repair was a not too bad £1000 with Rardleys.
At the time I never really gave the episode another thought even though a £5-£10k bill would have meant financial ruin for me and continued to enjoy the car for many thousands of miles.
If that happened today I would probably abandon the car and never trust it again. So yes we do change over time...
An hour or two later, AA truck finally arrives. Guess what, Ferrari too low to go on the truck. Shrug of the shoulders and off the AA bloke went.
All this while the thought is going through my mind that if this costs thousands to repair it's money I didn't have as a young man (had no qualms in those days about spending every penny I had on a car).
Anyway managed to bump start the car and limped a mile home. Repair was a not too bad £1000 with Rardleys.
At the time I never really gave the episode another thought even though a £5-£10k bill would have meant financial ruin for me and continued to enjoy the car for many thousands of miles.
If that happened today I would probably abandon the car and never trust it again. So yes we do change over time...
Edited by cgt2 on Monday 24th August 17:20
cgt2 said:
Concur with many of the comments here. My first Ferrari when I was 25 (a big financial risk for me at the time) I was driving a few miles away from home and the clutch went with an almighty bang. Pulled over by the side of the road near a police station and called the AA. Cue an hour of witty comments from the coppers going back and forth about their Metro going quicker, if you want to pull women that's not the place to park up etc etc etc, though a few did offer help.
An hour or two later, AA truck finally arrives. Guess what, Ferrari too low to go on the truck. Shrug of the shoulders and off the AA bloke went.
All this while the thought is going through my mind that if this costs thousands to repair it's money I didn't have as a young man (had no qualms in those days about spending every penny I had on a car).
Anyway managed to bump start the car and limped a mile home. Repair was a not too bad £1000 with Rardleys.
At the time I never really gave the episode another thought even though a £5-£10k bill would have meant financial ruin for me and continued to enjoy the car for many thousands of miles.
If that happened today I would probably abandon the car and never trust it again. So yes we do change over time...
Love this comment "Cue an hour of witty comments from the coppers going back and forth about their Metro going quicker" In todays high tech world of the modern Police car it must be hard for the younger super car drivers on this forum to imagine 6ft plus police officers apprehending criminals in something as primitive as a Metro,not even a MG Metro from memory.An hour or two later, AA truck finally arrives. Guess what, Ferrari too low to go on the truck. Shrug of the shoulders and off the AA bloke went.
All this while the thought is going through my mind that if this costs thousands to repair it's money I didn't have as a young man (had no qualms in those days about spending every penny I had on a car).
Anyway managed to bump start the car and limped a mile home. Repair was a not too bad £1000 with Rardleys.
At the time I never really gave the episode another thought even though a £5-£10k bill would have meant financial ruin for me and continued to enjoy the car for many thousands of miles.
If that happened today I would probably abandon the car and never trust it again. So yes we do change over time...
Edited by cgt2 on Monday 24th August 17:20
I didn't even make it home with my first Ferrari had a seized water pump ,A very kind man let me leave it in his garden right next to his kids climbing frame somewhere on the A34 .Not to be deterred and still full of enthusiasm i towed it 60 miles home the following morning at 6 am behind my TR7 .Not quite sure what my reaction would be today ,probably not much different only would get the RAC to do the donkey work but like you i would probably loose interest a lot quicker .. Sorry if you have heard this before as it was part of one of my previous rants .
Thank you all for your responses .
It is interesting that there have been no replies from owners of new cars .
I wonder why that is .
Difficult to believe that cars of the last half decade , filled as they are with electronics , are paragons of reliability .
Can it be that owners go into these newer cars with lower expectations of reliability , and so are less bothered when the cars develop a fault ?
It is interesting that there have been no replies from owners of new cars .
I wonder why that is .
Difficult to believe that cars of the last half decade , filled as they are with electronics , are paragons of reliability .
Can it be that owners go into these newer cars with lower expectations of reliability , and so are less bothered when the cars develop a fault ?
carspath said:
Thank you all for your responses .
It is interesting that there have been no replies from owners of new cars .
I wonder why that is .
Difficult to believe that cars of the last half decade , filled as they are with electronics , are paragons of reliability .
Can it be that owners go into these newer cars with lower expectations of reliability , and so are less bothered when the cars develop a fault ?
I think that unable to fix a modern car with a spanner they have resigned themselfs that when there is a problem rather than if that it will have to go back to the main dealers to be plugged in to their computer. what with limp mode and all these check warning lights that come on now , ,don't know which is which ,far cry from only the oil pressure warning light and ignition not charging light. Like you i have a mixture of semi modern and classic and can't see that changing any time soon. It is interesting that there have been no replies from owners of new cars .
I wonder why that is .
Difficult to believe that cars of the last half decade , filled as they are with electronics , are paragons of reliability .
Can it be that owners go into these newer cars with lower expectations of reliability , and so are less bothered when the cars develop a fault ?
Edited by rat rod on Thursday 27th August 19:03
Yes rat rod , I think that you have definitely identified one key reason there .
There is only so much ( or more precisely so little ) that you can do with your own hand held OBD II reader .
My three '' moderns '' light up a rainbow of check lights before the 2nd click of the ignition switch .
I think that the designers have done this partly to induce a sense of drama right at the start of a drive .
But for me , it just introduces an unnecessary step , and unwanted anxiety .
Far better to turn the ignition key all the way in one go , and see if the car starts , and if the oil pressure gauge needle wakes up .
But that presupposes you having an old fashioned ignition key and oil pressure gauge in the first instance ...
There is only so much ( or more precisely so little ) that you can do with your own hand held OBD II reader .
My three '' moderns '' light up a rainbow of check lights before the 2nd click of the ignition switch .
I think that the designers have done this partly to induce a sense of drama right at the start of a drive .
But for me , it just introduces an unnecessary step , and unwanted anxiety .
Far better to turn the ignition key all the way in one go , and see if the car starts , and if the oil pressure gauge needle wakes up .
But that presupposes you having an old fashioned ignition key and oil pressure gauge in the first instance ...
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