Generation Gap
Discussion
Being a relatively newbie to the forum i couldn't help notice that there seems to be a generation gap in the forum , Is it just me that's noticed it. .I have absolutely no interest in McLaren and very little interest in the latest and greatest from Ferrari /Koenigsegg and all the new Aston Martins look the same to me but must admit they do sound great . Not knocking them just not for me. Probably something to do with my age although not quite Dad's Army yet it's just i prefer old school .
There seems to be two camps on this super car forum ,one for the latest and one for the classic's ,It would seem that there is a lot more interest in say McLaren and the like with the threads going on and on with daily posts for weeks and months where as the classic threads seem to peter out before they begin and apart from the usual long term contributors keeping the threads going there doesn't seem a lot of interest.
One thread comes to mind that's been around for a while is "My old Lambo photo's from the 90's" which seem to come and go and a more recent one titled "Lamborghini used as Covid-19 shopping trolly's " which created a lot of interest with a considerable amount of input for weeks.
Whatever the average age is for the newer super car owners ,it must be much lower than those of us who support the classic super cars as they show no or very little interest so got me thinking would this work, a classic super car title separate from the present one , Would this be a good or bad idea being independent from each other and create more or less interest for the forum .just a thought ,brain working overtime on these hot nights. .
There seems to be two camps on this super car forum ,one for the latest and one for the classic's ,It would seem that there is a lot more interest in say McLaren and the like with the threads going on and on with daily posts for weeks and months where as the classic threads seem to peter out before they begin and apart from the usual long term contributors keeping the threads going there doesn't seem a lot of interest.
One thread comes to mind that's been around for a while is "My old Lambo photo's from the 90's" which seem to come and go and a more recent one titled "Lamborghini used as Covid-19 shopping trolly's " which created a lot of interest with a considerable amount of input for weeks.
Whatever the average age is for the newer super car owners ,it must be much lower than those of us who support the classic super cars as they show no or very little interest so got me thinking would this work, a classic super car title separate from the present one , Would this be a good or bad idea being independent from each other and create more or less interest for the forum .just a thought ,brain working overtime on these hot nights. .
Edited by rat rod on Monday 10th August 08:16
You should have an interest in McLaren. They are a British F1 constructor making cars for the road that will be the classics of the future. As a McLaren owner hopefully in my middle age I have very little interest in seeing 100 supercars static revving in a McDonalds car park, bores me to tears. However I enjoy driving my car enormously, that's what it was made for and thats what I do every opportunity I get. I also enjoy classic cars very much, the lines, the beauty and the craftsmanship. I much prefer going to a classic car show than a supercar show, but i will drive there in my McLaren :-)
The market has changed with the availability of cheap finance to people who previously wouldn’t have been able at afford these cars outright at younger ages. That and there now being more insurance options available to younger people who previously would have been prohibitively expensive or just uninsurable. The market for under 30 not long ago was very small. And the below 30-35 group is distinctly different to the 35+ which I suspect the broader group share more similar thoughts on cars.
I suspect the 2 categories are not just age but the shift in type of owner starting about 5-6 years ago where the market exploded. 2 distinctly different types of people, now, those that like cars but it’s just a luxury goods they like such as a Rolex watch etc and those that actually just love cars/machinery who tend to be slightly older and it’s not necessarily about showing off how cool they are.
Shift also started with the cars being easier to live with and less expensive to run, no 3000 mile gearboxes with engine out to fix stuff. Before you really had to want a proper supercar as it was big money and a lot of hard work to run and use, it is not the case now and has opened the market to those who previously would never have considered stupidly hard work transport.
I suspect the 2 categories are not just age but the shift in type of owner starting about 5-6 years ago where the market exploded. 2 distinctly different types of people, now, those that like cars but it’s just a luxury goods they like such as a Rolex watch etc and those that actually just love cars/machinery who tend to be slightly older and it’s not necessarily about showing off how cool they are.
Shift also started with the cars being easier to live with and less expensive to run, no 3000 mile gearboxes with engine out to fix stuff. Before you really had to want a proper supercar as it was big money and a lot of hard work to run and use, it is not the case now and has opened the market to those who previously would never have considered stupidly hard work transport.
Late 30's here and from my point of view I've switched off from new car releases and largely anything newer than around 2010. I favour something a little bit imperfect with more connection that isn't so fast that I can't stretch its legs on the road in more than two or three gears. The level of engineering and materials knowledge now is so advanced that the traditional trade off between sport and comfort is blurred, which I don't want in a weekend car.
Horses for courses and all that.
Horses for courses and all that.
Bispal said:
You should have an interest in McLaren. They are a British F1 constructor making cars for the road that will be the classics of the future. As a McLaren owner hopefully in my middle age I have very little interest in seeing 100 supercars static revving in a McDonalds car park, bores me to tears. However I enjoy driving my car enormously, that's what it was made for and thats what I do every opportunity I get. I also enjoy classic cars very much, the lines, the beauty and the craftsmanship. I much prefer going to a classic car show than a supercar show, but i will drive there in my McLaren :-)
Must admit i would much rather drive a modern super car to Monaco and have my classic one waiting for me down there already after being transported .i'd liken it to that in my surfing days i loved driving my VW splitscreen campervan around Cornwall but hated actually driving it there,that's if and when we eventually got there. Edited by rat rod on Monday 10th August 18:34
mwstewart said:
Late 30's here and from my point of view I've switched off from new car releases and largely anything newer than around 2010. I favour something a little bit imperfect with more connection that isn't so fast that I can't stretch its legs on the road in more than two or three gears. The level of engineering and materials knowledge now is so advanced that the traditional trade off between sport and comfort is blurred, which I don't want in a weekend car.
Horses for courses and all that.
I am looking for a good NA, manual, compliant ride, no drivers aids daily driver. Small and usable but powerful and with some quality. I think 1995-2005 (possible 10) is the sweet spot for cars. I'm thinking BWM E46 330i se saloon or similar. I am bored of my Audi S5 daily, its fast and competent but numb and boring. Give me hydraulic steering, softer springs, no touchscreen, cloth seats, a sunroof, NA engine, crisp throttle response, small brake servos with brakes you can modulate. I will take the modern advances of AC, blutooth connectivity and adjustable and wing mirrors but every other bit of excess faff can go in the bin. Any other ideas let me know.....Horses for courses and all that.
Bispal said:
I am looking for a good NA, manual, compliant ride, no drivers aids daily driver. Small and usable but powerful and with some quality. I think 1995-2005 (possible 10) is the sweet spot for cars. I'm thinking BWM E46 330i se saloon or similar. I am bored of my Audi S5 daily, its fast and competent but numb and boring. Give me hydraulic steering, softer springs, no touchscreen, cloth seats, a sunroof, NA engine, crisp throttle response, small brake servos with brakes you can modulate. I will take the modern advances of AC, blutooth connectivity and adjustable and wing mirrors but every other bit of excess faff can go in the bin. Any other ideas let me know.....
The M54 is a very nice engine and even the M Sport cars back then had a compliant ride - worth the premium IMO. Great steering for a car of that class. I had a 330Ci and enjoyed it though the gearbox isn't the greatest manual out there.How about an M3? My old one is on CC ending Weds https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2004-bmw-e46-m...
I genuinely don't think there are 'two camps' when it comes to modern supercars v classic supercars. We all like different things and most of that is totally irrational. I love my McLaren, yet modern Lamborghinis leave me cold. I love the older Lamborghinis but the McLaren F1 leaves me cold. I sold a beautiful classic Maserati to buy my 570s as you just can't enjoy rare classics on todays roads, yet I was out with a group of Lancia Stratos rep owners on Saturday and now have a massive desire to own one of them too.....
I have no desire to own a Porsche or a Ferrari, yet I totally appreciate why others would, that's just my (again irrational) perspective and it wouldn't be a surprise if one day that changes and there is a 911 or V12 Ferrari on the drive! Ultimately it doesn't really matter what we like as long as we respect other peoples choices, suggesting there are two camps is over simplistic IMHO.
I have no desire to own a Porsche or a Ferrari, yet I totally appreciate why others would, that's just my (again irrational) perspective and it wouldn't be a surprise if one day that changes and there is a 911 or V12 Ferrari on the drive! Ultimately it doesn't really matter what we like as long as we respect other peoples choices, suggesting there are two camps is over simplistic IMHO.
mwstewart said:
Bispal said:
I am looking for a good NA, manual, compliant ride, no drivers aids daily driver. Small and usable but powerful and with some quality. I think 1995-2005 (possible 10) is the sweet spot for cars. I'm thinking BWM E46 330i se saloon or similar. I am bored of my Audi S5 daily, its fast and competent but numb and boring. Give me hydraulic steering, softer springs, no touchscreen, cloth seats, a sunroof, NA engine, crisp throttle response, small brake servos with brakes you can modulate. I will take the modern advances of AC, blutooth connectivity and adjustable and wing mirrors but every other bit of excess faff can go in the bin. Any other ideas let me know.....
The M54 is a very nice engine and even the M Sport cars back then had a compliant ride - worth the premium IMO. Great steering for a car of that class. I had a 330Ci and enjoyed it though the gearbox isn't the greatest manual out there.How about an M3? My old one is on CC ending Weds https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2004-bmw-e46-m...
Bispal said:
I spotted that, lovely looking car but I have actually done a deal this morning to buy an E46 330i se 4 door with cloth seats and a manual gear box. Apparently it didn't have a single option box ticked! Heaven :-) (hopefully) GLWS your car looks stunning.
Congrats! I definitely see the appeal and truth be told older, now rarer quality cars hold just as much appeal now as the exotic stuff.mwstewart said:
Late 30's here and from my point of view I've switched off from new car releases and largely anything newer than around 2010. I favour something a little bit imperfect with more connection that isn't so fast that I can't stretch its legs on the road in more than two or three gears. The level of engineering and materials knowledge now is so advanced that the traditional trade off between sport and comfort is blurred, which I don't want in a weekend car.
Horses for courses and all that.
Bang on,My oldest is a 32 Ford Hot Rod followed by a 1938 Austin Seven Ruby and various bits and pieces in between ,my youngest is a 08 F430 ,as modern as i want to get,even my daily driver is on a 05 plate. Drive a fast car slow or a slow car fast comes to mind . Horses for courses and all that.
I'm 56 and a half. In the 70's I could recite every statistic on every exotic car with info sourced from Car magazine and the annual Observer pocket book. This continued for many years but has gradually deteriorated to the stage I don't even know all the models Ferrari currently produce.
Do I desire the last of the 3 pedal supercars purely because of the analogue driving experience or partly because I'm getting old and starting to lose interest in the latest technology? Perhaps both.
In terms of the OPs question, PH has a section for classic Ferrari's and perhaps this could be simply re-titled "classics".
Do I desire the last of the 3 pedal supercars purely because of the analogue driving experience or partly because I'm getting old and starting to lose interest in the latest technology? Perhaps both.
In terms of the OPs question, PH has a section for classic Ferrari's and perhaps this could be simply re-titled "classics".
leef44 said:
There was a programme I was watching about Shanghai and Bentley. One of the customers said, yes he is an oldie because he is now over 30 so he is looking at a Bentley. All the young business people, under 30 buy Ferraris
How does that work for two camps
Depends what age of Bentley, a old school Flying Spur (Jason King style) or modern Continental GT ,if the later i would put that in the same category as a modern Aston as they are in my opinion similar cars and can be daily driven,chances are that a Ferrari or Lamborghini would be a second car to the Continental anyway . How does that work for two camps
This is a "How long is a piece of string" scenario .I would have said that a average age for a modern super car driver would be somewhere between 35 to 50 and a classic more like 50 to 70 + but i am clearly wrong.
I owned my first Bentley at the age of 19 and no my father never gave it to me, i bought it at auction ,a 1956 S1 for a unbelievable £585 ,i thought i was a rock star.to put it into prospective i paid £325 for a 1961 Healey 3000 and £480 for my first E Type around the same time.
SFTWend said:
I'm 56 and a half. In the 70's I could recite every statistic on every exotic car with info sourced from Car magazine and the annual Observer pocket book. This continued for many years but has gradually deteriorated to the stage I don't even know all the models Ferrari currently produce.
Do I desire the last of the 3 pedal supercars purely because of the analogue driving experience or partly because I'm getting old and starting to lose interest in the latest technology? Perhaps both.
I'm of similar age and in your camp. Of course, the lack of an up-to-date all encompassing knowledge base could be down to mental faculties decreasing with advancing old age...Do I desire the last of the 3 pedal supercars purely because of the analogue driving experience or partly because I'm getting old and starting to lose interest in the latest technology? Perhaps both.
It is largely the proliferation of technology that is putting me off (whether it's a supercar or a daily driver). I'm losing interest in anything after about 2010. The inevitable march of technology is no doubt producing "better" cars, but I'm at the point of overload. I don't need lane departure warnings, automatic braking, semi-autonomous driving, computer generated throttle blips, electronic controlled exhaust enhancement, giant touch screen electronic tablets on my dashboard which just collect finger smudges and are difficult to operate accurately on the move , multiple menus to scroll through to change simple things, indicators not on stalks (Ferrari!), 20 different permutations of suspension/throttle response/gear shift speed/noise settings and so on. To be honest, even on the non-technology front, I'm losing interest - specifically the ever increasing horsepower numbers. Aren't they already "more than adequate"? And I know multiple gears are great for fuel economy, but do we really need 7 speed manuals and 9 speed autos (and at what point will the number be enough?). No doubt those somewhat younger will reply that "if you think the music's too loud you are too old"...
Bispal said:
You should have an interest in McLaren. They are a British F1 constructor making cars for the road that will be the classics of the future. As a McLaren owner hopefully in my middle age I have very little interest in seeing 100 supercars static revving in a McDonalds car park, bores me to tears. However I enjoy driving my car enormously, that's what it was made for and thats what I do every opportunity I get. I also enjoy classic cars very much, the lines, the beauty and the craftsmanship. I much prefer going to a classic car show than a supercar show, but i will drive there in my McLaren :-)
Would seem that a number of modern Supercar owners enjoy looking and appreciate the classic's but prefer to drive their own cars . Believe me i really try to warm to McLaren but for some reason i just can't for what ever reason,got nothing against them,in fact when i see one on the road they look fantastic especially when they come up behind you,maybe i need to drive one. Any offers ?Ferruccio said:
Bispal said:
You should have an interest in McLaren.
Like art, surely it’s just a matter of personal taste?
I find the history of McLaren and Lotus are fascinating. Just watch some of the documentaries about the design that went into the 12C or the 1st Lotus Elise. The most important thing about a car for me is that it has a story and it was developed with passion. The fact that i can go to the factory and chat with the engineers that worked on my car and Amanda McLaren is utterly absorbing. I can message Frank Stephenson and have chats with him about the design.
Same with Lotus i can pick up the phone and chat with the chap that built my car, i have made friends with Elise Artioli and like Frank, Julian Thompson will chat away with me about the design of my car.
Im not sure any other manufacturer can offer that emotional connection other than konnigsegg and pagani. That's why i am interested in McLaren and why i think any petrolhead with a passion should be to.
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