Ferrari 512BB sold on Collecting Cars

[suigeneris]

With all this talk about values I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. A 512BB sold on Collecting Cars for £115k (or around £121 with their capped £6k buyer fees) which is less than half the nearest advertised RHD which is around £250k minimum for anythinng advertised? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1976-ferrari-5...

There's been a lot of talk about this website which is doing something straightforward but clearly doing it very well. I thought initially as this had sold in early March, this could be before the website had the traffic to pick up bids (i.e. an "imperfect market" at the time) but there are plenty of auctions before and just after this where values seem to be at a reasonable level. I then thought is it because it has a niche level of interest nowadays but there are plenty of other cars with niche interest which went for closer to advertised values around this time and its a 70s flat-12 Ferrari after all.

This car had a colour change at some point but otherwise appeared to be a very good example, so is this just a case of lucky buyer or is this really where values should be on these cars?

[sunbeam alpine]

Wow - that was a bit of a bargain!

[Gregor-lun1d]

'One swallow doesn't make a spring' is the phrase that springs to mind. Perhaps this is an outlier - only time will tell.

[MDMA .]

Someone's taken a bath on that.

https://www.artebellum.com/en/classic-cars-for-sal...

[MDL111]

I posted about this a while back - I watched it live and was amazed at the price (same to a lesser extent for the 360 Challenge at the same time)
Didn’t have the money but would have loved this - such a cool car

[suigeneris]

MDMA . said:

Someone's taken a bath on that.

https://www.artebellum.com/en/classic-cars-for-sal...

Presume it was potentially on SOR there but still went for over £100k less than what they were asking

[cayman-black]

MDL111 said:

I posted about this a while back - I watched it live and was amazed at the price (same to a lesser extent for the 360 Challenge at the same time)
Didn’t have the money but would have loved this - such a cool car

I see loads of cool car i love too! I don't have the money either!

[Raven Flyer]

suigeneris said:

With all this talk about values I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. A 512BB sold on Collecting Cars for £115k (or around £121 with their capped £6k buyer fees) which is less than half the nearest advertised RHD which is around £250k minimum for anythinng advertised? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1976-ferrari-5...

There's been a lot of talk about this website which is doing something straightforward but clearly doing it very well. I thought initially as this had sold in early March, this could be before the website had the traffic to pick up bids (i.e. an "imperfect market" at the time) but there are plenty of auctions before and just after this where values seem to be at a reasonable level. I then thought is it because it has a niche level of interest nowadays but there are plenty of other cars with niche interest which went for closer to advertised values around this time and its a 70s flat-12 Ferrari after all.

This car had a colour change at some point but otherwise appeared to be a very good example, so is this just a case of lucky buyer or is this really where values should be on these cars?

You could not lose at Top Trumps, if you had this card!

What a thing of beauty.

[TR4man]

That 550 seemed to go for a song too.

As the website agree a reserve with the sellers, I assume the ex-owner of the Boxer (and the 550) must have been happy with the amount.

[browngt3]

Now that caught my attention! Koenig Ferraris were dream cars for me back in the 80's, even had a poster of a Koenig Testarossa on my bedroom wall!

Can see this one being cheaper because it's modified but not half price. What a car and an absolute steal for someone. Wonder if a dealer got it?

[21ATS]

I think it's reasonable to assume that the seller on Collecting Cars of this 512 - "BSC" is actually Bell Sport & Classic who were listing the car for sale. on the link mentioned above.

I've noticed that some of the early listings are missing the Private/Trade statement in the information on the right hand side.

Those with it missing often appear to be dealers.

So not only was it cheap - it was that price from a dealer by the looks of it.

[21ATS]

TR4man said:

That 550 seemed to go for a song too.

As the website agree a reserve with the sellers, I assume the ex-owner of the Boxer (and the 550) must have been happy with the amount.

I didn't think the 550 was particularly cheap I thought it was about the right money. Bar the lunacy in 2015/16 these haven't been selling at anywhere close to asking prices for sometime now, unless it was something really special and sub 15,000 to 20,000 miles.

I've been trying to buy one for a while now about £60K for a tidy driver with 50,000 miles is on the money.

I was offered a 23,000 miles example last week in Verde Zeltweg at a price "in the region of £70K-£75K" I got photos, said yes but the seller had a wobble and decided he couldn't part with it. This was through a dealer.

The difficulty when it comes to 550's isn't so much the price (unless you're prepred to offer daft money) it's actually getting an owner to part with one, they are such nice cars and so useable that people get very attached to them.

[Claret Badger]

I loved my 550. So well built and I was gutted to sell it, but felt it was 'beyond my means' in the long run. Seeing them drop towards the level I paid (£50k for a 3 owner 41k mile RHD in 2012) has got me tempted again. They still seem to be around the £70k mark for the equivilent now so maybe a little way to go downwards yet. We will see!

[21ATS]

Claret Badger said:

I loved my 550. So well built and I was gutted to sell it, but felt it was 'beyond my means' in the long run. Seeing them drop towards the level I paid (£50k for a 3 owner 41k mile RHD in 2012) has got me tempted again. They still seem to be around the £70k mark for the equivilent now so maybe a little way to go downwards yet. We will see!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-R-Ferrari-550-Maranello-Argento-Silver-RHD/143545479749?hash=item216bfa3245:g:8rUAAOSwss1difLa

It looks like it's sold again. Showing "Deposit Taken". I wonder what the magic number was as I'd always thought their asking price was more than optomisitc.

I've seen the short video you did on YouTube.

I've wanted one of these for 20 years, it's taken that long for me to be in a position to buy one that I can keep. I had thought I'd missed the boat when it all went daft and rather worn ones were fetching north of £100K a few year ago. It seems a bit of common sense has kicked in.

I'm not sure if anything nice will ever get down into the £50k's again, whilst there are still enough about, the numbers of nice ones are dwindling and the spread of values seems to be increasing between tatty, good drivers and really nice examples.

I'm determined not to miss the boat this time.

Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 12th May 20:02

[jtremlett]

I don't know where BB prices really are. Dealers seem to have made a concerted effort to push their prices up over the last 3 or 4 years but they don't seem to shift at 300k+ and that doesn't surprise me in the least. However, the auction car pretty much tells you where the bottom is. In a market that values originality it is a car that has been hacked about over the years and still has a load of aftermarket modifications. Whilst I fully accept that some people like the modifications, the market doesn't and the value will be that much less as a result.

I don't think the buyer got a bargain. To compare it with other BBs you'd have to consider the cost to make it like other BBs (i.e. Factory standard) and that would be considerable and you'd still end with a car that had history of having been chopped about.

[jsc15]

jtremlett said:

I don't know where BB prices really are. Dealers seem to have made a concerted effort to push their prices up over the last 3 or 4 years but they don't seem to shift at 300k+ and that doesn't surprise me in the least. However, the auction car pretty much tells you where the bottom is. In a market that values originality it is a car that has been hacked about over the years and still has a load of aftermarket modifications. Whilst I fully accept that some people like the modifications, the market doesn't and the value will be that much less as a result.

I don't think the buyer got a bargain. To compare it with other BBs you'd have to consider the cost to make it like other BBs (i.e. Factory standard) and that would be considerable and you'd still end with a car that had history of having been chopped about.

I've always looked at Koenig as being to Ferrari what AMG were to Merc and Alpina were to BMW in the 80's....i.e. the more sophisticated option if you wanted to pimp your ride, and not perhaps as dated as some other options

[rat rod]

jtremlett said:

I don't know where BB prices really are. Dealers seem to have made a concerted effort to push their prices up over the last 3 or 4 years but they don't seem to shift at 300k+ and that doesn't surprise me in the least. However, the auction car pretty much tells you where the bottom is. In a market that values originality it is a car that has been hacked about over the years and still has a load of aftermarket modifications. Whilst I fully accept that some people like the modifications, the market doesn't and the value will be that much less as a result.

I don't think the buyer got a bargain. To compare it with other BBs you'd have to consider the cost to make it like other BBs (i.e. Factory standard) and that would be considerable and you'd still end with a car that had history of having been chopped about.

You are 100% wright you could never put this Boxer back to original , the cost would outweigh the value when finished and you would still have a messed about car , far better to buy a original one in the first place especially as prices seemed to have dropped to a semi sensible level, after saying that i think this Boxer looks fantastic with it's wide wheels lowered stance and carbureter trumpets on show under the perspex covers and those exhausts ,i would loved to have heard it run, shame they didn't come out of the factory like this (probably get hanged for saying that) but if it had it would be original and nobody would say anything, it would be the equivalent of the Pista,Scuderia and Stradale of today, i remember when i was in my twenties driving up to Emblem Sports Cars in Blandford Forum when John Woodfield owned it back in the 70's and 80's and looking in the showroom at a line up of Koenig Boxers and 308 GTB'S ,l must admit that some were a little over the top with their Testarossa side strakes but besides that they looked so aggressive, they looked like they just escaped off the race track,Little did i know that i would be back some years later having my track 308 GTB engine built by them, The standard Boxer is a pretty design but always looked a little narrow and seems to sit to high with a huge gap between the tyre and wheel arch, A little Marmite i know but I think this car was the bargain of the year and if you love the look you won't find another one let alone at that price , Trying to reduce my traffic jam in my garage i've advertised 3 of my cars ,,shame none of them have sold as i would have had to press that button ,I know the purest will think other wise and maybe not such a good investment as a standard example and selling it on could be a problem but i'm sure someones very happy with their buy,(anyone on here)

Edited by rat rod on Tuesday 12th May 22:34

[suigeneris]

jtremlett said:

I don't know where BB prices really are. Dealers seem to have made a concerted effort to push their prices up over the last 3 or 4 years but they don't seem to shift at 300k+ and that doesn't surprise me in the least. However, the auction car pretty much tells you where the bottom is. In a market that values originality it is a car that has been hacked about over the years and still has a load of aftermarket modifications. Whilst I fully accept that some people like the modifications, the market doesn't and the value will be that much less as a result.

I don't think the buyer got a bargain. To compare it with other BBs you'd have to consider the cost to make it like other BBs (i.e. Factory standard) and that would be considerable and you'd still end with a car that had history of having been chopped about.

Thanks for your input but surely for someone who is being sensible with where he gets the parts, it wouldnt cost more than £15-20k to put this back to standard (even with the wheels and new springs) which still leaves a good £60-70k between this and the next cheapest example on the market which on double checking appears to be a private car at £200k (dealer examples still start at £250k)

[Cheib]

suigeneris said:

jtremlett said:

I don't know where BB prices really are. Dealers seem to have made a concerted effort to push their prices up over the last 3 or 4 years but they don't seem to shift at 300k+ and that doesn't surprise me in the least. However, the auction car pretty much tells you where the bottom is. In a market that values originality it is a car that has been hacked about over the years and still has a load of aftermarket modifications. Whilst I fully accept that some people like the modifications, the market doesn't and the value will be that much less as a result.

I don't think the buyer got a bargain. To compare it with other BBs you'd have to consider the cost to make it like other BBs (i.e. Factory standard) and that would be considerable and you'd still end with a car that had history of having been chopped about.

Thanks for your input but surely for someone who is being sensible with where he gets the parts, it wouldnt cost more than £15-20k to put this back to standard (even with the wheels and new springs) which still leaves a good £60-70k between this and the next cheapest example on the market which on double checking appears to be a private car at £200k (dealer examples still start at £250k)

I suspect prices on BB’s pre Covid were a bit like Daytona’s....lots of cars around in the £500k to £700k bracket but not many buyers will to get much over £400k judging by auction results.

Looking at auction results the last BB I can see for sale was this one is Dec 2019

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25502/lot/18/

Didn’t sell. High bid was £150k against low estimate of £180k; Looks to be a much nicer car than the CC one. From what i can see the last four BB’s that went to auction didn’t sell.

[Maph7]

Cheib said:

I suspect prices on BB’s pre Covid were a bit like Daytona’s....lots of cars around in the £500k to £700k bracket but not many buyers will to get much over £400k judging by auction results.

Looking at auction results the last BB I can see for sale was this one is Dec 2019

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25502/lot/18/

Didn’t sell. High bid was £150k against low estimate of £180k; Looks to be a much nicer car than the CC one. From what i can see the last four BB’s that went to auction didn’t sell.

That one at Bonhams was the same car as the one sold on CC.

So could have taken the 150K in Dec instead of the 115K in April, not sure if that is just a reflection of the market or that an auction house like Bonhams can still command better prices than CC...... possibly a bit of both.

Edited by Maph7 on Wednesday 13th May 13:30