Official Ferrari Repaired Cars (not Cat recorded)
Discussion
A friend of mine has been offered a very highly spec'd 488 through an official Ferrari dealer. Apparently the car was smashed in to the Valet bay by the dealers themselves and they bought it from the owner as he did not want the car back. It's around £25-30k below market value but not Cat N/D etc recorded.
Full list of repairs show new side wings, front lights, bumper and trims etc no chassis damage. Car is being offered with the 2 year Ferrari Warranty and all other perks of buying from a dealer. The car has a "mark" on the Ferrari system as being repaired at an Approved Ferrari workshop but not on the insurance database etc as damage was so minor.
Seems to me to be a decent enough deal. I can't see the issue with a car that has had such minor damage and has been repaired by Ferrari do you?
Yes it would take a while to sell it again and price will reflect this but he will be paying less anyway - My opinion was to tell him to buy it - what do you think?
Full list of repairs show new side wings, front lights, bumper and trims etc no chassis damage. Car is being offered with the 2 year Ferrari Warranty and all other perks of buying from a dealer. The car has a "mark" on the Ferrari system as being repaired at an Approved Ferrari workshop but not on the insurance database etc as damage was so minor.
Seems to me to be a decent enough deal. I can't see the issue with a car that has had such minor damage and has been repaired by Ferrari do you?
Yes it would take a while to sell it again and price will reflect this but he will be paying less anyway - My opinion was to tell him to buy it - what do you think?
None of that makes any sense. Thousands of cars get repaired without being recorded so I don't even understand why they'd tell someone and certainly not a £25k reduction in price because of this when there's a very good chance half their stock has had some paintwork previously.
Why would a dealer do themselves out of £25k? They wouldn't.
Why would a dealer do themselves out of £25k? They wouldn't.
PrancingHorses said:
We are not talking paintwork but an entire front end repair
I understand that but it doesn't change anything.Every single Ferrari that has ever been to one of their approved repair centres will have a mark on it but it's just an internal note so no real relevance.
What i'm saying is, they didn't have to mention it at all and I can't ever see a dealer willingly tell someone and lose £25k.
rich12 said:
I understand that but it doesn't change anything.
Every single Ferrari that has ever been to one of their approved repair centres will have a mark on it but it's just an internal note so no real relevance.
What i'm saying is, they didn't have to mention it at all and I can't ever see a dealer willingly tell someone and lose £25k.
I agree, none of this makes sense unless its a cover story to hide the real truth.Every single Ferrari that has ever been to one of their approved repair centres will have a mark on it but it's just an internal note so no real relevance.
What i'm saying is, they didn't have to mention it at all and I can't ever see a dealer willingly tell someone and lose £25k.
Surely if the accident was serious then it would be recorded right?
The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
This is exactly why Im asking on here as it makes no sense to me. If the car has been repaired by Ferrari to Ferrari standards and not recorded then why is it cheaper just because its on a “system”?
Being sold with a warranty and under the approved used scheme too!
The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
This is exactly why Im asking on here as it makes no sense to me. If the car has been repaired by Ferrari to Ferrari standards and not recorded then why is it cheaper just because its on a “system”?
Being sold with a warranty and under the approved used scheme too!
Edited by PrancingHorses on Friday 8th May 16:46
I would think they have to tell you if you ask (and they know about it - therefore the usual answer to our knowledge / according to the previous owner ... no accident damage)
My car will also have that marker as sb ran into the rear and it needed a few new parts and paint. Sure I could lie when selling it, but would not do that (and hope others wouldn’t either)
My car will also have that marker as sb ran into the rear and it needed a few new parts and paint. Sure I could lie when selling it, but would not do that (and hope others wouldn’t either)
PrancingHorses said:
Surely if the accident was serious then it would be recorded right?
The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
This is exactly why Im asking on here as it makes no sense to me. If the car has been repaired by Ferrari to Ferrari standards and not recorded then why is it cheaper just because its on a “system”?
Being sold with a warranty and under the approved used scheme too!
I don't know what criteria dealers have to abide by to sell cars as Ferrari Approved but it may be that is relevant, i.e. Ferrari may insist upon it. Certainly, that marker is on Ferrari's system so will be visible to anyone looking it up in future - in other words, if they didn't mention it and a buyer were subsequently to learn that marker was there (e.g. from another dealer looking the car up) they might well expect comeback and that might include comeback from Ferrari as well as the buyer. It will be cheaper because a buyer will expect to pay less for a car that has been repaired over one that hasn't. The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
This is exactly why Im asking on here as it makes no sense to me. If the car has been repaired by Ferrari to Ferrari standards and not recorded then why is it cheaper just because its on a “system”?
Being sold with a warranty and under the approved used scheme too!
Edited by PrancingHorses on Friday 8th May 16:46
So, I can see the logic but none of that says whether the story of what happened is true or not.
Seems strange to me.
That marker, if it exists and in what form, is an internal Ferrari thing. It is only relevant, I would think, if it affects aspects of the ownership experience for the customer - e.g. if the marker means that it won't qualify for Power warranty after X years/at all beyond the initial 2 years, or will have exclusions, or whatever.
If it does affect the end customer experience I'd want to know exactly how it affects it, what the ramifications are for buying that car beyond the upfront discount. False economy and all that.
To echo what was said above I don't know why Ferrari would necessarily advertise this information when there is nothing stopping them procuring and selling accident damaged (but repaired) cars without disclosing it - whether they know about it or not. There's a difference between a material omission like HPI marker and the car having had some paint or a bumper or whatever at some point.
That marker, if it exists and in what form, is an internal Ferrari thing. It is only relevant, I would think, if it affects aspects of the ownership experience for the customer - e.g. if the marker means that it won't qualify for Power warranty after X years/at all beyond the initial 2 years, or will have exclusions, or whatever.
If it does affect the end customer experience I'd want to know exactly how it affects it, what the ramifications are for buying that car beyond the upfront discount. False economy and all that.
To echo what was said above I don't know why Ferrari would necessarily advertise this information when there is nothing stopping them procuring and selling accident damaged (but repaired) cars without disclosing it - whether they know about it or not. There's a difference between a material omission like HPI marker and the car having had some paint or a bumper or whatever at some point.
Durzel said:
Seems strange to me.
That marker, if it exists and in what form, is an internal Ferrari thing. It is only relevant, I would think, if it affects aspects of the ownership experience for the customer - e.g. if the marker means that it won't qualify for Power warranty after X years/at all beyond the initial 2 years, or will have exclusions, or whatever.
If it does affect the end customer experience I'd want to know exactly how it affects it, what the ramifications are for buying that car beyond the upfront discount. False economy and all that.
To echo what was said above I don't know why Ferrari would necessarily advertise this information when there is nothing stopping them procuring and selling accident damaged (but repaired) cars without disclosing it - whether they know about it or not. There's a difference between a material omission like HPI marker and the car having had some paint or a bumper or whatever at some point.
There may or may not be a legal difference - as an example, I asked about accident damage of a car that I bought from Mercedes in Germany and the dealer replied “no it is not accident free, it had a new windshield at a cost of low 4-digit figure” and said he has to declare that due to internal guidelines. This is maybe a bit extreme, but I fully expect the dealer to declare knowledge of an accident if I ask a direct question so I can decide if the accident is relevant to my decision-making or not That marker, if it exists and in what form, is an internal Ferrari thing. It is only relevant, I would think, if it affects aspects of the ownership experience for the customer - e.g. if the marker means that it won't qualify for Power warranty after X years/at all beyond the initial 2 years, or will have exclusions, or whatever.
If it does affect the end customer experience I'd want to know exactly how it affects it, what the ramifications are for buying that car beyond the upfront discount. False economy and all that.
To echo what was said above I don't know why Ferrari would necessarily advertise this information when there is nothing stopping them procuring and selling accident damaged (but repaired) cars without disclosing it - whether they know about it or not. There's a difference between a material omission like HPI marker and the car having had some paint or a bumper or whatever at some point.
MDL111 said:
...but I fully expect the dealer to declare knowledge of an accident if I ask a direct question so I can decide if the accident is relevant to my decision-making or not
The dealer may well only have knowledge of accident damage and repair work if they were somehow involved in the process of rectifying it. Anything that has happened outside of their 'bubble' will almost certainly go unnoticed unless the repair is really poor.He finally got some more info on the car as he asked for the repair report. £75k of repairs full front end damage repair including structural repairs too. Massive part list of changed parts all from Ferrari directly. The car is now fully repaired and approved back to Ferrari standards hence being sold as an approved used car however the marker on the system always shows for cars that have had a structural repair carried out. The report also mentions the cause of the accident which as confirmed was due to hitting the wall in the valet bay whilst the car was in for a service so it all adds up.
The car was not written off or categorised as the repairs cost vs price of the car (£200K) made the repair viable and the assessor and insurers all agreed that the car can easily be repaired and so it was. Ferrari have confirmed no limitations on future warranties etc and its good as any other car apart from the repair marker on the system which would obviously reduce the value for future trade in etc but that hardly matters if he pays less now.
I still think there is no issue if he intends to keep the car for a while and enjoy it.
It is a very high spec car indeed.
The car was not written off or categorised as the repairs cost vs price of the car (£200K) made the repair viable and the assessor and insurers all agreed that the car can easily be repaired and so it was. Ferrari have confirmed no limitations on future warranties etc and its good as any other car apart from the repair marker on the system which would obviously reduce the value for future trade in etc but that hardly matters if he pays less now.
I still think there is no issue if he intends to keep the car for a while and enjoy it.
It is a very high spec car indeed.
The fact that its had structural repairs as well as the cosmetic panel changes now makes the initial post add up..If it was purely cosmetic outer panel damage then then there would be no need to mark it against an approved Ferrari sale car..
How much is the real saving compared to similar cars ie genuinely, not what the dealer says..If its been repaired to as new condition and there is a real £30k saving then its a bargain IMO especially if its in a popular high spec..
How much is the real saving compared to similar cars ie genuinely, not what the dealer says..If its been repaired to as new condition and there is a real £30k saving then its a bargain IMO especially if its in a popular high spec..
Taffy66 said:
The fact that its had structural repairs as well as the cosmetic panel changes now makes the initial post add up..If it was purely cosmetic outer panel damage then then there would be no need to mark it against an approved Ferrari sale car..
How much is the real saving compared to similar cars ie genuinely, not what the dealer says..If its been repaired to as new condition and there is a real £30k saving then its a bargain IMO especially if its in a popular high spec..
It's hard to say in today's climate but 3 months ago if someone wanted one in this spec with over £80k of options it would have been around £30-35k more than what they are offering it to him for. It has every carbon option you can tick inside and outside and pretty much a spec anyone would bite your hand off for. How much is the real saving compared to similar cars ie genuinely, not what the dealer says..If its been repaired to as new condition and there is a real £30k saving then its a bargain IMO especially if its in a popular high spec..
PrancingHorses said:
Surely if the accident was serious then it would be recorded right?
The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
Interesting that they said that.The dealer has said they have to disclose if the car is recorded on their system as being Ferrari repaired and thats reflected in the price.
Edited by PrancingHorses on Friday 8th May 16:46
Quite a few years ago Ferrari required all dealerships to give them a chassis number for every part that was ordered with a view to having that history.They also required indies to do the same. Soon they realized that they were shooting themselves in the foot by having it as they devalued a lot of their stock. Indeed, I know that one/some dealerships and indies at the time use to load spare parts on a single VIN and repair other damaged cars so that their customer cars would not be "tagged" as repaired.
I thought they stopped that practice as they deemed that if a car was fixed in the network it was a good as factory. If your info is correct then this may have changed and I wonder if it will have the same results...
355fiorano said:
Interesting that they said that.
Quite a few years ago Ferrari required all dealerships to give them a chassis number for every part that was ordered with a view to having that history.They also required indies to do the same. Soon they realized that they were shooting themselves in the foot by having it as they devalued a lot of their stock. Indeed, I know that one/some dealerships and indies at the time use to load spare parts on a single VIN and repair other damaged cars so that their customer cars would not be "tagged" as repaired.
I thought they stopped that practice as they deemed that if a car was fixed in the network it was a good as factory. If your info is correct then this may have changed and I wonder if it will have the same results...
The repair report clearly states that Ferrari do not supply any parts to third parties and the car can only be road worthy if repaired by Ferrari directly. If it can't be repaired by Ferrari it would have had to be a write off. Once the car was completed it was inspected by Ferrari factory PDI inspectors and they have shown him that report too! Quite a few years ago Ferrari required all dealerships to give them a chassis number for every part that was ordered with a view to having that history.They also required indies to do the same. Soon they realized that they were shooting themselves in the foot by having it as they devalued a lot of their stock. Indeed, I know that one/some dealerships and indies at the time use to load spare parts on a single VIN and repair other damaged cars so that their customer cars would not be "tagged" as repaired.
I thought they stopped that practice as they deemed that if a car was fixed in the network it was a good as factory. If your info is correct then this may have changed and I wonder if it will have the same results...
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