Supercar advice needed please

[1john]

After reaching the ripe old age of 56 I am now finally in a position to buy myself a top end car.
My budget is 100-120k but want a car that sets the pulses going if I can phrase it that way. I’ve always had cars that were on the fast side from a young age which started with an XR2, Renault GT Turbo, Renault Turbo 2 etc and now get my kicks from a Caterham R500.

I’m now looking or you out there to hopefully guide me in the right direction?

I don’t want a track day car but a car that I can use not everyday but frequently without feeling that the car is always on the leash but if I want to track it can do so also. I’m hoping there are owners out there that have had Porsche’s,Mclarens,Ferrari’s etc and there input would help greatly but any advice would be most welcome.

You can also advise on servicing,running costs etc although I do appreciate that they are far higher than a standard car.

I’ve looked at all the usual suspects and looked at various reviews but all they do is make it more confusing so need your help if possible.

Thankyou and look forwards to what advice you can give.

[MDL111]

That is a great place to be / decision to have to make

I think you need to look at some cars / possibly drive some to make up your mind. At your budget you have a lot of options from

front-engined GT cars (Ferrari 599 (Semi-automatic transmission) or Aston V12 Vantage (manual) come to mind). A V12 is a very special thing, IMO especially an Italian one. If you want an older car, a Ferrari 550 might be an option. All of these cars are more GT than track car though due to weight imo

Mid-engined supercars - a bit more shouty, a bit more pointy drive, better on track, generally lighter weight. Possibly a Ferrari 430 or McLaren 650 or Audi R8 or a Lamborghini Gallardo (possibly Huracan) might float your boat. Or again going older a Lamborghini Murcielago or Ferrari 512 TR - for that mid-engined V12 experience

Rear-engined - well mostly various iterations of Porsches

I think you should think especially about type of transmission, engine layout and engine type to narrow your choices a little

Possibly post on the supercars forum section as a lot of people will have owned a lot of different cars and might be able to provide first hand experience on different options

[1john]

Thanks for the reply.
I would prefer mid/rear engine and also manual gearbox but some cars dont have the manual option so would consider auto/paddle.

I was initially looking at Porsche 911, Ferrari 458 or McLaren !MP4-12C but as soon as you think you have made a choice something else pops up!

Ideally I would like to test drive most of the above but not sure dealers like to give test drives and then you turn around and say no it’s not for me?

I appreciate you do need to get in them to see what there like but are dealers ok with you trying them out and you walking away?

[1john]

After reaching the ripe old age of 56 I am now finally in a position to buy myself a top end car.
My budget is up to 120k but want a car that sets the pulses going if I can phrase it that way. I’ve always had cars that were on the fast side from a young age which started with an XR2, Renault GT Turbo, Renault Turbo 2 etc and now get my kicks from a Caterham R500.

I’m now looking or you out there to hopefully guide me in the right direction?

I don’t want a track day car but a car that I can use not everyday but frequently without feeling that the car is always on the leash but if I want to track it can do so also. I’m hoping there are owners out there that have had Porsche’s,Mclarens,Ferrari’s etc and there input would help greatly but any advice would be most welcome.

I would prefer mid/rear engine and manual but appreciate some models don’t give you this option so would be open to auto etc.

I’ve looked at Porsche 911, Ferrari 458, Audi R8, mclaren MP4-12C but am now totally confused,also how do dealers feel about you having test drives and walking away if you don’t like?

The last thing I want is some pushy salesman giving me the sales bumf and getting the hump if I’m not interested

You can also advise on servicing,running costs etc although I do appreciate that they are far higher than a standard car.

I’ve looked at all the usual suspects above and more and looked at various reviews but all they do is make it more confusing so need your help if possible.

Thankyou and look forwards to what advice you can give.

[johnnyreggae]

I think your budget may struggle for a good 458

You'll probably find official Porsche or Audi dealers a starting point for test drives - don't walk in expecting an immediate test drive during a weekend

I think there was just a long thread about R8 which probably gives an indication of costs and there are numerous about 12C - I'll bet there's similar in the Porsche section too

Also read the recent 1st plunge thread

Lots of recent useful information here just scroll down and read loads

Edited by johnnyreggae on Saturday 1st February 16:10

[davek_964]

My experience of these kind of cars (although most were below your budget).

911 turbo - Owned one for 5.5 years. Very fast, useable every day but for me - not really 'fun' to drive and never felt special. Not tried a recent one, but don't really interest me at all.

Ferrari 360 - Owned just over 6 years. Still own it although will probably sell in the spring. Huge amount of fun, and Ferrari definitely have something that makes them special. Never tried a 458 - decided they were too expensive compared to the competition but I have no doubt they are superb cars. Only downside of my 360 is that it's not really very appealing as a semi daily car - I guess the newer 458 might be better for that, but I wasn't convinced when I was shopping for....

McLaren 650S Spider - Owned since August. Had a lot of teething problems at first but seems OK now. Very very good daily car - best car I've owned for that in fact. Doesn't feel as instantly 'go kart' as the 360 does to me on a twisty road, but the more I get to know it the more it impresses me. (And I'm getting the Geo done next week so that should help).

The Ferrari literally makes me smile almost every time I use it - but if I use it more than a day or two in a row to go to work, the novelty wears off a bit. McLaren is brilliant, and something I have to consciously avoid driving to try and keep the miles below the extended warranty limit of 12k. In just under 6 months, I've already done the combined annual mileage of the two cars it replaced.

For running costs, the main one on the McLaren is the warranty - about £3.5k a year for cars under 5 years old and £5k after that. But it does cover most things. Servicing is roughly £1k to £1.5k without extras depending on the service.

[PrancingHorses]

£120k will get you a decent 458 in todays climate.

The below are all fairly low mileage and decent spec cars.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

[ZX10R NIN]

I'm going to give you the alternates list as the top two will be the Ferrari/Porsche.

I'd say a 650S would be a good place to be & enjoy now the few people I know who have them & although they've had niggles the worst part of the experience has been with the dealers themselves from lack of knowledge of how to solve the issues & just general poor communication.

The thing with this reputation & the fact that Mclaren appear to always be releasing a new model (although they're not) means these are cheaper than their main competitors.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

There's also the NSX which despite good reviews can be bought for sensible money:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

R8 RWS

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Manual Gallardo Superleggera

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Leftfield:

AMG GT R

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[Thales]

Bloody hell, that Gallardo. Yes please.

[drcarrera]

Not much help to the OP but I'm the same age and looking for the same thing!
Trouble with my options is that it has to be a convertible. For that reason (amongst others) I'm leaning towards a 570S Spider at the moment, but that may change. Plenty McLaren dealer cars around at below £120K.

[Frankthered]

1john said:

Thanks for the reply.
I would prefer mid/rear engine and also manual gearbox but some cars dont have the manual option so would consider auto/paddle.

I was initially looking at Porsche 911, Ferrari 458 or McLaren !MP4-12C but as soon as you think you have made a choice something else pops up!

Ideally I would like to test drive most of the above but not sure dealers like to give test drives and then you turn around and say no it’s not for me?

I appreciate you do need to get in them to see what there like but are dealers ok with you trying them out and you walking away?

Should I ever be (when?) I'm in your position, I would be tempted to try out one of the Supercar clubs (P1 International etc.) for a year or two and get to try at least some of the options a try without committing myself.

That is, of course, if I could resist the temptation to just go straight to Lister Bell to get them to build me one of their Stratos replicas.

[1john]

Thanks for all your replies and opinions. It’s funny really as when I was younger it was always gonna be a Ferrari but when you are fortunate enough to be in a position that I am it becomes a bit of a minefield.
There are some serious cars to be had out there and yes the Ferrari 458 does look tempting and have had some good reports on the Mc 650s.

The thing that also comes into the reckoning is this. What will the residue resale values be on the afore mentioned cars? I think the Ferrari would remain strong but what of the others? I know you can’t have everything your own way but in the same context I don’t want a car which in 2-3 years time would lose a shed load of money if I decided to change tact.

[av185]

My advice would be to decide what age of car you are really wanting as £120k would easily buy you a newish Mclaren 570 S and even a 20k mileage 720 S. Problem with these is they depreciate heavily so unless you buy and run for a short time they are costly cars. I did this with a 570 s last summer great car but uninvolving for me at least.

458s are a different proposition but even at £125k these are overvalued imo for an old car and whilst they are a great package further pressure from 488s and Mclaren will undoubtedly hit prices. I say this as a 458 Italia owner btw and nevertheless love it as a rapid road car with a great n.a. engine.

Talking of great engines and a great package at the money the other option is a 991 GT3 which as a drivers car for involvement is hard to beat especially on track. £100k to £110k should get you a good spec and mileage gen 1 whilst another £35k to £45k should get you a gen 2 with the option of an increasingly rare 'manuel' gearbox for added interaction. The magnificent 9k rev Cup car engine alone on the gen 2 is worth the extra ££ imo I had the gen 1 PDK and now the gen 2 manual which imo is the sweetspot for contemporary Porsche GTs. It is testament to these cars abilties that even 6 year old + gen 1s are still retailing over list price ££ and depreciation is truly glacial.

Best advice would be to drive these cars and spend some time with them as they are totally different but offer driving pleasure in totally different ways depending upon what you value as a driver.

If I had to pick one car to drive early one Sunday morning on empty roads it would be the 991.2 GT3 manual as it gives the enthusiastic driver a level of interaction challenge with an old school/contemporary mix and road performance that most Mclarens and Ferraris can only dream of particularly in a world of detached turbo engines and flappy paddle gearboxes.

[Kid A]

I thought I would chime in with a related question which is when buying a used exotic what is the best haggling strategy - is it to start with what you think is the lowest semi-reasonable offer (say 12-15% off list) at multiple dealers and then see which if any bite, and if none do to come back later on? I know fo that no one pays list for a typical car in this price range, but what sort of discounts do you look at and how does one calibrate pricing?

[Desert Dragon]

av185 said:

458s are a different proposition but even at £125k these are overvalued imo for an old car and whilst they are a great package further pressure from 488s and Mclaren will undoubtedly hit prices. I say this as a 458 Italia owner btw and nevertheless love it as a rapid road car with a great n.a. engine.

infotainment aside surely the 458 is about as modern as a supercar gets? how does it feel old compared to a GT3 and does its engine, soundtrack and feel good factor not see off a GT3? GT3 looks so boring by comparison.

[MKnight702]

Given that this is not going to be an everyday car I would exclude the Porsche and definitely the Audi as not being special enough.

For something that is always going to get noticed and give you the out of the ordinary feeling when you take it out of the garage I would look to the Ferrari, Lamborghini and McLaren stable.

As to which, that is too personal to call, you would have to take a drive in each (oh the hardship!)

[av185]

Desert Dragon said:

av185 said:

458s are a different proposition but even at £125k these are overvalued imo for an old car and whilst they are a great package further pressure from 488s and Mclaren will undoubtedly hit prices. I say this as a 458 Italia owner btw and nevertheless love it as a rapid road car with a great n.a. engine.

infotainment aside surely the 458 is about as modern as a supercar gets? how does it feel old compared to a GT3 and does its engine, soundtrack and feel good factor not see off a GT3? GT3 looks so boring by comparison.

Depends if you prefer 'style over substance'.

Esteemed journo Steve Sutcliffe tested the Speciale against the 991.1 GT3 for Autocar in c 2014 and concluded whilst the F was effectively twice the price of the P and obviously faster (predominantly on the straights on track), the P had the better sounding and more charismatic engine, better gearbox, better grip, better steering and turn in. The gen 2 GT3 is also a leap ahead of the gen 1 particularly re the engine which is a masterpiece and now leaves the 458 particularly in basic Italia form trailing.

There is little between the 458 Italia and 991.1 GT3 performance wise on the road and whilst the 458 is arguably better looking, I find its usability particularly on typical British B roads to be restricted due to its width. Not so the 911 which is far more chuckable.

Again, it depends where your priorities and wants for a drivers car/posers car truly are.

[Olas]

Lancia Stratos has to be at the top of the list of you want a mid/rear layout

Edit*

After 30 seconds of reasearchnit is clear ou cant buy a Stratos for 120k.

You could, however, put the budget to work building something orders of magnitude faster than anything you could buy for the same
Price.

Edited by Olas on Sunday 2nd February 10:33

[av185]

MKnight702 said:

Given that this is not going to be an everyday car I would exclude the Porsche and definitely the Audi as not being special enough.

For something that is always going to get noticed and give you the out of the ordinary feeling when you take it out of the garage I would look to the Ferrari, Lamborghini and McLaren stable.

If just getting noticed by others is your bag then you wouldnt be intersted in driving enjoyment/dynamics and would be happy cruising the Kings road lol.

All these cars are massively colour sensitive my Grig Titan 458 receives far less attention than my white GT3 and even my red GT4 and an orange Mclaren whatever the model is a pain attention wise.

[Ballistic]

Kid A said:

I thought I would chime in with a related question which is when buying a used exotic what is the best haggling strategy - is it to start with what you think is the lowest semi-reasonable offer (say 12-15% off list) at multiple dealers and then see which if any bite, and if none do to come back later on? I know fo that no one pays list for a typical car in this price range, but what sort of discounts do you look at and how does one calibrate pricing?

IMO there is no 'one size fits all' haggling strategy when it comes to buying cars - each deal is different and has many variables.

It all depends on what's most important to you; do you just want the cheapest example of a particular car, just so that you feel you got the best price, or do you want your chosen car in as close to your ideal specification as possible and potentially have to pay a little more for it - supercars do differ a lot in specification.

As an example, in my case, I 've just bought a Huracan Performante and there were no two cars the same being advertised. I googled all of the images, and looked at as many real cars as I could find, to decide on what my ideal spec was and what appealed to me the most. If I was going to spend this amount of money I wasn't prepared to compromise and was prepared to wait and get the right car that will always make my heart skip a beat every-time I open the garage door.
There was only one car that really sang to me as soon as I saw the advert. It wasn't the cheapest on the market and yes I got a small discount (nothing like 12-15%, but the car was sensibly priced in the first place). The main thing is I got the car that I really wanted.