The sorry state of sports car sales
Discussion
AmoCS said:
Certainly a percentage of buyers are getting fatter and feel the need to haul more non-essential junk around in their cars than ever before.Meanwhile the McLaren GT seems to have more than enough space for luggage and Louboutins across Europe
A determined shopper can always get the Louboutins in. A few years ago, coming back from a European tour in the 458, at our last nightstop in France, Mrs Wombat found a shoe shop having a sale which resulted in her travelling the last four hours to the tunnel and then back to Sussex with four shoeboxes balanced on her lap.
Some big falls and shows that it is not just UK buyers that have throttled back ...
PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
And it looks like those figures are wrong It says 50 mclaren 570s have been sold this year but according to how many left there’s only been a rise of 34
Not very good rly but also shows that despite been pretty rare they lose value hand over fist
Not very good rly but also shows that despite been pretty rare they lose value hand over fist
Edited by ghost83 on Tuesday 24th September 19:27
willy wombat said:
A determined shopper can always get the Louboutins in. A few years ago, coming back from a European tour in the 458, at our last nightstop in France, Mrs Wombat found a shoe shop having a sale which resulted in her travelling the last four hours to the tunnel and then back to Sussex with four shoeboxes balanced on her lap.
another example of self-discipline bringing successIsn't there an argument that manufacturers are not really listening to what customers are wanting?
Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
f1ten said:
Some big falls and shows that it is not just UK buyers that have throttled back ...
PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
I think PCP has allowed manufacturers to inflate their prices massively across the board, not just for supercars. PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
With only a small percentage buying outright these days the RRP is almost redundant; it’s all about the monthly payment. For the most part, the fact the RRP is huge is only another bragging point for the leasers who can win top trumps.
I heard a radio advert not long ago for a fiat 500 where the cost of the car wasn’t given, only the “from £xxx per month”.
It’s another clever example in my view of how businesses can inflate prices almost unknowingly and, at the same time, sign people up to a lifetime of renting and debt. I’m not conspiracy theorist but equally I see so many young people now saddled with a student debt, a mortgage that is 30/35 years (straddling their entire working age), cars on PCP and never paying down a principal sum, rented mobile phones etc etc. Before they really begin any career they have signed up to an entire life repaying debt.
V10leptoquark said:
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
Great point about demand, but it isn't just a case of whether a manufacturer knows that's what the market wants, it's if they can build such a car profitably. Making a new car is an expensive business, design, testing, meeting different crash safety and emission regulations for all the different markets, packaging, tooling the factory, etc, etc. To do that while meeting the extremely high standards for quality and reliability demanded these days costs in the high hundreds of millions. To sell the resulting car for £50k you'd either need to reduce the quality of the product in order to get the unit cost down, or have such a razor thin margin that you'd have to sell hundreds of thousands of the things to cover the investment, and they clearly don't think the market is there.For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
20 years ago you could weld together some steel girders, chuck an off-the-shelf V8 in there and sell it profitably, which was the TVR model. But in 2019 I'm not sure that business model is viable any more. Even massive companies like Toyota and BMW need to team up to share development on their mid-range sports cars to get the numbers to add up.
400bhp in 1500kg is pretty much spot on for our roads. I cant see why people buy 700+bhp monsters, other than bragging rights down the pub. For a start, TCS is going to be cutting a large proportion of that power in the lower gears, and in the higher gears, you're into triple figure speed levels.... IMO, high power output makes a car quite boring to drive (legally).
V10leptoquark said:
Isn't there an argument that manufacturers are not really listening to what customers are wanting?
Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
The CLA 45 AMG (Yeah I know it's 4WD automatic) fits that, as does a few other cars.Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
Never you mind said:
V10leptoquark said:
Isn't there an argument that manufacturers are not really listening to what customers are wanting?
Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
The CLA 45 AMG (Yeah I know it's 4WD automatic) fits that, as does a few other cars.Either that or their focus is just on initial/1st year launch sales?
I'm sure that much "market research" is done on what manufacturers perceive is customer demand, but I think there may be evidence in the recent sales trends that suggest they are somewhat off the mark. But then, they must spend a sizable budget on market research for it to be correct.
Anyway, my thought is that they may be missing what true car enthusiasts are looking for and are only able to produce cars that focus on 1st year sales.
For example, a lot of my car enthusiast friends are in the market for the following criteria:
- RWD sports/GT coupe with a factory BHP of around 400bhp or more.
- Something that has a level of practicality so that it can fulfill the 'GT' aspect.
- Something below £50k.
- Manual gearbox and limited slip differential.
- 0-60 sub 5 second.
There doesn't seem to be much (if anything) on the forecourts with that simple list.
There used to be, and often it was the Japanese market that provided it, such as the Toyota Supra and the Mazda RX7. Models that didn't sell well at full price when new, but which really became sought after when affordable.
And taking of cost have you seen the cost of an M2 or a cla45 or an RS3
50k plus options yes it’s about the monthly payment but it’s a lot of money! Especially when after 4yrs it’s only worth 25k if that!
My daily is a golf gti mk7 on pcp and I stuck a 6500 deposit down and 330 a month! I’m pretty sick that I will have spent 15,840 and then have to pay 11,500 balloon if I want to pay it off!
So my physical cost will have been 22,500 not taking into account the balloon and I could have paid it off my mortgage!
50k plus options yes it’s about the monthly payment but it’s a lot of money! Especially when after 4yrs it’s only worth 25k if that!
My daily is a golf gti mk7 on pcp and I stuck a 6500 deposit down and 330 a month! I’m pretty sick that I will have spent 15,840 and then have to pay 11,500 balloon if I want to pay it off!
So my physical cost will have been 22,500 not taking into account the balloon and I could have paid it off my mortgage!
Shnozz said:
f1ten said:
Some big falls and shows that it is not just UK buyers that have throttled back ...
PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
I think PCP has allowed manufacturers to inflate their prices massively across the board, not just for supercars. PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
With only a small percentage buying outright these days the RRP is almost redundant; it’s all about the monthly payment. For the most part, the fact the RRP is huge is only another bragging point for the leasers who can win top trumps.
I heard a radio advert not long ago for a fiat 500 where the cost of the car wasn’t given, only the “from £xxx per month”.
It’s another clever example in my view of how businesses can inflate prices almost unknowingly and, at the same time, sign people up to a lifetime of renting and debt. I’m not conspiracy theorist but equally I see so many young people now saddled with a student debt, a mortgage that is 30/35 years (straddling their entire working age), cars on PCP and never paying down a principal sum, rented mobile phones etc etc. Before they really begin any career they have signed up to an entire life repaying debt.
f1ten said:
Some big falls and shows that it is not just UK buyers that have throttled back ...
PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
I know at least 3 people who have lost £100k + on new Mclarens within 12 months.PCP deals where you pay 10% more for the car off an already massively inflated Price and all the mega list of extras for the car and low and behold many people are losing 40k easy on a supercar inside of 12 months ownership.
Anyone that bought purely as a trinket is probably rethinking their ownership position.
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff