How will high-performance EV cars affect Supercars?
Discussion
Been thinking about this a lot recently. With the arrival of full-electric, high-performance sports cars (E-Tron GT, M Vision Next, Tesla Roadster, etc) which are sporting mad levels of torque and 0-60 mph times of 3 secs or less as standard, how does that impact you guys when looking to change into a new Supercar? I have always associated speed and noise with what makes up part of a Supercar. Now speed seems to be irrelevant and as EVs become more popular, noise is no longer being associated with performance as it used to be. Especially with younger buyers. With uber low yearly running costs these cars are becoming hard to ignore. Will the definition of a Supercar over a sports car come down to design, badge, heritage and finish alone rather than performance and noise?
It's an interesting question, and kind of relevant to the situation I'm in.
A colleague of mine debated over a new Tesla for several months, and ordered one a couple of months ago. He collected it last week (I've not seen it yet), but before that I put a deposit on a McLaren 650s Spider.
He looked up acceleration times - and although the McLaren is faster - particularly noticeable as the speeds increase - at "practical" speeds (i.e. not serving prison time if you got caught) - the difference isn't huge. Plus, he gets to run it for pennies, and I will be spending the national debt on petrol and warranty. (Oh, and his new car cost about half of the almost 5 year old one I'm buying).
I'd still rather have the McLaren - but then, I'm old. The world is most definitely changing though and even I briefly thought : Why have I paid so much for this car compared to his?
A colleague of mine debated over a new Tesla for several months, and ordered one a couple of months ago. He collected it last week (I've not seen it yet), but before that I put a deposit on a McLaren 650s Spider.
He looked up acceleration times - and although the McLaren is faster - particularly noticeable as the speeds increase - at "practical" speeds (i.e. not serving prison time if you got caught) - the difference isn't huge. Plus, he gets to run it for pennies, and I will be spending the national debt on petrol and warranty. (Oh, and his new car cost about half of the almost 5 year old one I'm buying).
I'd still rather have the McLaren - but then, I'm old. The world is most definitely changing though and even I briefly thought : Why have I paid so much for this car compared to his?
The sound aspect doesn't disappear- the fact is that as humans we find it pleasurable. It's why we discovered and developed music.
INO once the torque novelty wears off EVs as an occasional use car are quite dull. Of course, traditional Supercars will be 'out-gunned' but after being out in my old Ferrari yesterday I really do not need, nor could realistically use any more grunt on the road. Ultimately for me peak Supercar has passed.
As a daily driver where comfort and NVH are more important I could see a hybrid eventually replacing my AMG V8.
INO once the torque novelty wears off EVs as an occasional use car are quite dull. Of course, traditional Supercars will be 'out-gunned' but after being out in my old Ferrari yesterday I really do not need, nor could realistically use any more grunt on the road. Ultimately for me peak Supercar has passed.
As a daily driver where comfort and NVH are more important I could see a hybrid eventually replacing my AMG V8.
mwstewart said:
The sound aspect doesn't disappear- the fact is that as humans we find it pleasurable. It's why we discovered and developed music.
INO once the torque novelty wears off EVs as an occasional use car are quite dull. Of course, traditional Supercars will be 'out-gunned' but after being out in my old Ferrari yesterday I really do not need, nor could realistically use any more grunt on the road. Ultimately for me peak Supercar has passed.
As a daily driver where comfort and NVH are more important I could see a hybrid eventually replacing my AMG V8.
I agree.INO once the torque novelty wears off EVs as an occasional use car are quite dull. Of course, traditional Supercars will be 'out-gunned' but after being out in my old Ferrari yesterday I really do not need, nor could realistically use any more grunt on the road. Ultimately for me peak Supercar has passed.
As a daily driver where comfort and NVH are more important I could see a hybrid eventually replacing my AMG V8.
Although EV recharging times are going to be the biggest hurdle when planning euro trips
I've had a Tesla Model S as my daily driver for two and a half years. I haven't even got the performance model but it's the quickest accelerating car I've had. Certainly the best car I've had for long journeys, especially with autopilot. It's even fun when I take the A483 up through Wales on my forays oop north. And it's cheap to run - a full charge is about a tenner and I get free supercharging on my long journeys. Low maintenance too.
Is it as much of an event as driving my previous fun cars - 360, GT3, Ultima, Evo 7 etc? No, it's not fair to compare it. You do get used to the instant torque and the way it can get off the line in the wet is astonishing. But I'm hankering after something more antisocial again, with a soundtrack, gears etc., hence me being in here and shopping round looking at McLarens. In the meantime I can go for a blat on my bike which scratches the itch. I'm hoping to be able to keep the Tesla as well and have the best of both worlds.
I think one thing that gets overlooked though is weight. Electric motors produce masses of torque and it's all available from zero rpm, so you can overcome the penalty of all the mass of the battery in a straight line quite easily by just throwing brute force at it. Tesla have done a pretty good job of disguising the mass of the S, it's 2200kg but you wouldn't really notice it until you start to push it very hard on twisty roads, including the hard braking. The forthcoming roadster is supposedly going to combine its 0-60 time of around 2 seconds with a range of 600 miles, that's going to need one very big battery. It's going to be a heavy car. It will of course obliterate pretty much anything in a straight line but it's never going to have the driving dynamics of any thoroughbred lightweight sports/supercar.
I've got my name down for a Porsche Taycan, and I've no doubt it will be excellent, but I still don't think it will be a direct replacement for a combustion engined car. I suspect it probably won't be much better than my Tesla to be honest, although I expect the interior quality to be better. It's still going to be a heavy car.
Is it as much of an event as driving my previous fun cars - 360, GT3, Ultima, Evo 7 etc? No, it's not fair to compare it. You do get used to the instant torque and the way it can get off the line in the wet is astonishing. But I'm hankering after something more antisocial again, with a soundtrack, gears etc., hence me being in here and shopping round looking at McLarens. In the meantime I can go for a blat on my bike which scratches the itch. I'm hoping to be able to keep the Tesla as well and have the best of both worlds.
I think one thing that gets overlooked though is weight. Electric motors produce masses of torque and it's all available from zero rpm, so you can overcome the penalty of all the mass of the battery in a straight line quite easily by just throwing brute force at it. Tesla have done a pretty good job of disguising the mass of the S, it's 2200kg but you wouldn't really notice it until you start to push it very hard on twisty roads, including the hard braking. The forthcoming roadster is supposedly going to combine its 0-60 time of around 2 seconds with a range of 600 miles, that's going to need one very big battery. It's going to be a heavy car. It will of course obliterate pretty much anything in a straight line but it's never going to have the driving dynamics of any thoroughbred lightweight sports/supercar.
I've got my name down for a Porsche Taycan, and I've no doubt it will be excellent, but I still don't think it will be a direct replacement for a combustion engined car. I suspect it probably won't be much better than my Tesla to be honest, although I expect the interior quality to be better. It's still going to be a heavy car.
Bo_apex said:
Although EV recharging times are going to be the biggest hurdle when planning euro trips
I don't think so to be honest. My Tesla can go a lot further than my bladder can, and even at current charge rates by the time I've had a pee and grabbed a coffee the car's good to go.I think if there are 20 of you in a convoy that will present an issue.
Larry5.2 said:
I wonder if when transport transitioned from horse and to automobile over a century ago, people had a similar debate - the living thing with a soul versus the machine that did the the journey without much human involvement....
I understand that back then the motor car was a statement of significant wealth separating the well-off from the rest of society, hence everyone aspired to owning a car. I do agree though that all else being equal there would be similarities!After my limited experience of driving EVs it does seem a huge step back, getting into something with a combustion engine. The more time I spend in them the more I notice the noise, smell and lack of useable power in my own cars. My friend has a Tesla X P100D. He can get 6 people around in comfort, with very little effort, far less running costs and quicker up to legal speeds, than I can get myself in an Italian 2-seater V10.
Pioneer said:
Been thinking about this a lot recently. With the arrival of full-electric, high-performance sports cars (E-Tron GT, M Vision Next, Tesla Roadster, etc) which are sporting mad levels of torque and 0-60 mph times of 3 secs or less as standard, how does that impact you guys when looking to change into a new Supercar? I have always associated speed and noise with what makes up part of a Supercar. Now speed seems to be irrelevant and as EVs become more popular, noise is no longer being associated with performance as it used to be. Especially with younger buyers. With uber low yearly running costs these cars are becoming hard to ignore. Will the definition of a Supercar over a sports car come down to design, badge, heritage and finish alone rather than performance and noise?
This is similar to the debate that occurred when quartz and battery operated watches came in. Essentially, it will take a similar course. Your average consumer will go electric and there will remain a small(er) but loyal bunch that perfer things done old school.
Just like people marvel at a Lange's mechanism, people will want a V12 bi-turbo. Until controlled explosions become entirely illegal, of course.
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