Gallardo, 355, stock

[The Green Triangle]

Looking at a couple of potential options and I know this is going to depend on personal preference but here goes... And what angle its looked at.

For the first time, I have enough funds to look seriously at supercars. I'm interest in gallardo or 355 manuals only and coupes.

This would be a cash purchase, second car. It would need to hold value or increase. Mileage wise, I already have a second car which I'm only doing max 1000 miles per year, if that! I know I need to get out more 😀. So the replacement would do something similar.

I guess my questions are:

Which in your opinion is the best to own from both ownership perspective and potential future investment?

Would one of these lovelies be happy on that mileage a year? SORN over winter, but run to keep things going on a private road.

Rough annual servicing costs for something on this kind of mileage.

Insurance costs?

My current toy is from Japan so has been utterly reliable. These two?

What are the non obvious things to look out for on both?

I would have to liquidate around 70k of stock which presently been growing nicely. Am I mad to cash this in and buy an exotic? Ha, an unanswerable question I suppose and wrong section.... Fortunately I am financially buoyant having paid of the mortgage and have a good income coming in 50-60k. I'm sub 40... But just a bit nervous on taking the plunge. It would be the biggest spunk of cash I've ever done, so I'm being cautious.

Both cars look great. I love 355 delicate lines. I love the lambos drama, noise and hopefully they're a bit more robust under Audi stewardship.... A manual lambo or Ferrari has to be a realtively safe bet doesn't it?

Or should I just stick with what I have and watch the stock grow... (Yawn)... But then you never know what one of the these things are like to own...

[utgjon]

The Green Triangle said:

For the first time, I have enough funds to look seriously at supercars.

Congratulations!

The Green Triangle said:

It would need to hold value or increase.

I would be very careful entering the market at the moment with that requirement. Especially with the two cars mentioned as they're not exactly rare.


FWIW though, 355 every day of the week.

[MrVert]

As said above, everything is now on a downward trend, unless ultra rare and therefore still collectable.

There's another thread on here suggesting £2k-£3k per year servicing average on the 355. Lower on the Gallardo.

These cars are no longer an investment, if that's a major factor now may not be the right time for you.

[The Green Triangle]

Thanks guys that very insightful as I was not aware the trend was on the downwards at the moment (hopefully short term). I've always followed 355 and regretted 8 yrs ago about not taking the plunge when you could pick up nice ones for around 60k. It was different then as I was still mortgaged etc...

It would be a long term investment as my current second car I've had for 12 years. I tend to keep hold of nice things so it would definitely be keeper as long as I have the garage space.

On the servicing front, is that est accurate with a sub 1000 mile car? Some years I've struggled to do 500! But trying to correct that now. Of course regular oil changes etc for sure, but on lower mileages where's the maintenance coming from at 3k?

[67Dino]

Even if you do very low miles, a 355 needs an engine-out Cambelt service every 3 years regardless of mileage which costs £3k. Plus normal main dealer service of £1-2k (there’s always something needs doing) and so a budget of £2-3k as quoted is reasonable.

However, the 355 an absolute classic and one of the best bets for future appreciation I would have thought. I would expect the Gallardo to be at best steady and possibly go down, since it was never a classic Lambo (rather too ‘Audi’).

[The Green Triangle]

Yes I appreciate cambelt change on 355 every 3 yrs.

Can any work be done by keen owners? I've always liked to do basic stuff at home, not only to save a couple of quid, but really more because I do enjoy light tinkering and understanding how things work. Or is this ruled out in the pedigrees to preserve proper maintenance etc. I'm only talking about oil and filter changes, spark plugs, etc. I'll leave the complex stuff (assuming the latter isn't!) To the competent independents which I know these two marques have in abundance.

On the gallardo, I was under the impression that RHD coupes in manual form were pretty rare... Don't know why but 3% of global production (15k) springs to mind.... I may have got that wrong tho.

[Drl22]

The Green Triangle said:

Yes I appreciate cambelt change on 355 every 3 yrs.

Can any work be done by keen owners? I've always liked to do basic stuff at home, not only to save a couple of quid, but really more because I do enjoy light tinkering and understanding how things work. Or is this ruled out in the pedigrees to preserve proper maintenance etc. I'm only talking about oil and filter changes, spark plugs, etc. I'll leave the complex stuff (assuming the latter isn't!) To the competent independents which I know these two marques have in abundance.

On the gallardo, I was under the impression that RHD coupes in manual form were pretty rare... Don't know why but 3% of global production (15k) springs to mind.... I may have got that wrong tho.

If I was buying your future 355 in say 12 years I’d want to see the work having been done at a main dealer or at least a reputable Indy. These cars potential future values are based on their history and this is part of it. Your post suggests you want to maximise future values and proper servicing is a key part of that.

[The Green Triangle]

Yes that's fair enough. My current steed is in impeccable condition, me be the main servicer, bit I did start off with a very reputable independent.

I appreciate that the 355 or gallardo is a step up so would be looking at least in the short term for a trustworthy indy until I got to know the car and owners for guidance. For me owning nice cars is as much about understanding the car (getting ones hands a little dirty) as driving them...

Perhaps I should look at more classic alternatives as service history from main dealers is less so important... Still 355 is beautiful object and gallardo is soulful.

[67Dino]

The Green Triangle said:

Yes that's fair enough. My current steed is in impeccable condition, me be the main servicer, bit I did start off with a very reputable independent.

I appreciate that the 355 or gallardo is a step up so would be looking at least in the short term for a trustworthy indy until I got to know the car and owners for guidance. For me owning nice cars is as much about understanding the car (getting ones hands a little dirty) as driving them...

Perhaps I should look at more classic alternatives as service history from main dealers is less so important... Still 355 is beautiful object and gallardo is soulful.

Unfortunately, I think so. Admire your ability/ willingness to do your own servicing, but as DRL22 said, unfortunately the value of Ferraris is highly dependent on dealer service history.

Only alternative I could suggest if you really want a Ferrari and to do your own work is to buy one with ‘starship mileage’ (ie over 60k). Not only is the price is lower and so less risk to the value, but also it’s more expected that indies would be used. Wouldn’t meet your desire to maximise the appreciation though.

[The Green Triangle]

That's fair enough. It is a shame as long as an owner has the knowledge, correct tools, etc and fundamentally can do the job effectively, I don't see an issue with it, but I completely understand it with these why it's the case. Ironically someone else has raised the issue in the same section about the high cost of annual servicing for what you actually get... Anyhow not a problem and doesn't put me off. It would be long term.

So what's driving the price trend downwards on these then? The dreaded B coming in the Autumn? How much do you anticipate the market will correct by? Obviously don't want to dive in at the wrong point...but the expectation is?

There's a lovely blue 355 berlinetta for sale at the moment which seems to tick most of the the boxes carbon seats, 44k miles ...75k....hmmm manual. Thoughts?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by The Green Triangle on Tuesday 6th August 18:18

[67Dino]

The Green Triangle said:

So what's driving the price trend downwards on these then? The dreaded B coming in the Autumn? How much do you anticipate the market will correct by? Obviously don't want to dive in at the wrong point...but the expectation is?

The main driver of the decline is that we are at the back end of a significant price bubble for classics generally and Ferraris in particular. Post credit crunch, with low interest rates and a weak equity market, money was looking for a home and found it in physical assets like cars, wine and art. However, the value people were paying wasn’t based on any supply/demand fundamentals but on expectations of future value, which is what creates a bubble.

Once price rises looked like finishing, people started selling and the bubble deflated. Brexit wasn’t the cause here but didn’t help. We’re now at the tail end, but there’s still more sellers out there than buyers, which is holding prices down. How much and for how long I couldn’t guess. Personally believe 355s are a good fundamental long-term buy, but they also were one of the larger bubbles to deflate, so wouldn’t anticipate much value growth for 3 years or so.

The Green Triangle said:

There's a lovely blue 355 berlinetta for sale at the moment which seems to tick most of the the boxes carbon seats, 44k miles ...75k....hmmm manual. Thoughts?

Lovely looking car, great colour combo, and the dealer is reputable and knows the car which bodes well (although of course history is critical so needs checking). However, the Berlinetta is less sought after than the GTS (a shame I think), racing seats are not to everyone’s taste, and 44k is on the cusp of leggy.

Given those factors, I’d say that’s a fair price, but that when prices rise this car will appreciate rather less as a % than a low mileage GTS will. So a good buy as a classic generally, but not the best investment grade 355.

Edited by 67Dino on Wednesday 7th August 08:26

[The Green Triangle]

Thanks that's really insightful information Dino. I'm certainly going to keep researching, wait and watch.

Yes it's a few more miles than I'd like in this example, but it's a great colour. I think for me it's blue first then black. Not so keen on red.

Interesting what you say re: GTS. I actually prefer the purity of the berlinetta. Sorry to say, but the GTS reminds me a bit of an MR2... heathen I know.

For me, first comes the enjoyment of owning a car like this. I am a petrol head. Then the investment side. So if the berlinetta isn't going to go up as much that's not a big issue. It would definitely be a purchase, hold, enjoy decision. I want to enjoy using it.

[gibbon]

Buying a 70k car with an income of £50k?

Madness imho.

I also think there is a large chance of a market correction, and i would call it a correction, in cars like this.

[The Green Triangle]

gibbon said:

Buying a 70k car with an income of £50k?

Madness imho.

I also think there is a large chance of a market correction, and i would call it a correction, in cars like this.

That's one way of looking at it. But my reasoning is, I would like to own something like this while still in reach. Personally I don't see a reason why 355 may be the next Dino. At which point it's out of my reach. Similarly with gallardo they won't make stuff like this ever again. So on a 20yr horizon, I'm hoping it makes sense to invest in something I would enjoy.

I have the funds available. I have no debt. Why not? Surely 50-60k a year with no mortgage is better than 100k a year and a very large debt like a mortgage or am I missing something?

Edited by The Green Triangle on Wednesday 7th August 11:23

[m4tti]

The Green Triangle said:

I have the funds available. I have no debt. Why not?

Edited by The Green Triangle on Wednesday 7th August 11:23

Uhh if the worst happens and you need an engine rebuild. Say 25k... you’ll spend half your income on it. Mind boggling.

[gibbon]

The Green Triangle said:

That's one way of looking at it. But my reasoning is, I would like to own something like this while still in reach. Personally I don't see a reason why 355 may be the next Dino. At which point it's out of my reach. Similarly with gallardo they won't make stuff like this ever again. So on a 20yr horizon, I'm hoping it makes sense to invest in something I would enjoy.

I have the funds available. I have no debt. Why not? Surely 50-60k a year with no mortgage is better than 100k a year and a very large debt like a mortgage or am I missing something?

Edited by The Green Triangle on Wednesday 7th August 11:23

There are many reasons why this wont happen, but lets start with production numbers, 3.5k v 12k, roughly, i believe.

2019 is also a very different time to 2008, but that is a whole different debate, but with specific ramifications for the pricing and running of these types of cars.

I dont want to sound condescending, but please, with some of your comments about the need for the car to increase in value, and your volunteered income, be careful buying a car of this era, thats seen this price growth and can easily chuck up 5-10k bills.

A lovely car though, i fancy an early one myself at some point.

[The Green Triangle]

m4tti said:

Uhh if the worst happens and you need an engine rebuild. Say 25k... you’ll spend half your income on it. Mind boggling.

I think that's a very unlikely risk on the mileage I'd be doing. Fair enough if I bought a lemon...but I'll try not to.

[gibbon]

m4tti said:

Uhh if the worst happens and you need an engine rebuild. Say 25k... you’ll spend half your income on it. Mind boggling.

More than half, if he/she lives off air and water.

I wouldnt enjoy driving a car like that if i couldnt afford to fix the thing.

[The Green Triangle]

gibbon said:

There are many reasons why this wont happen, but lets start with production numbers, 3.5k v 12k, roughly, i believe.

2019 is also a very different time to 2008, but that is a whole different debate, but with specific ramifications for the pricing and running of these types of cars.

I dont want to sound condescending, but please, with some of your comments about the need for the car to increase in value, and your volunteered income, be careful buying a car of this era, thats seen this price growth and can easily chuck up 5-10k bills.

A lovely car though, i fancy an early one myself at some point.

That's fine, as I'm asking for opinions. I might not necessarily agree however.

On production volumes, you need to look at RHD manual versions of each. I think the gallardo as I mentioned earlier is in the hundreds of units. 355 again in the hundreds in this form. So particularly these specs have the best chance of going up in the future.

I've had family who have bought into cars over the last 25 years to own and enjoy, when within reach, and they've been the best investment choices aside from houses. They were careful purchases, as this would be for me.

If 355 values for example, return to 2008 levels, ok so on paper I've lost 25k. But over a 15 to 20yr horizon, surely these are not a silly things to buy now? I can afford a 25k hit especially on paper. But if we think that's coming, obviously I'm going to wait until it does and try and catch the ball on the bounce.

I'm putting 30k away in savings each year, so a large bill as you mention wouldnt end me. And I don't really have any other outgoings.

[Drl22]

I don’t think you should have to justify your income/expenditure situation to the forum but I think the point really is that never go into any of these things with the expectation of it being an investment. If it goes up great, if down then you’ll have enjoyed it and been sensible enough to know you can take the hit.

Take what I’m saying with a pinch of salt though because I may be about the dive head first in an SV telling myself it will at least hold!