Renting out while Owning an exotic car..
Discussion
I'm currently aiming to get myself a 360 next this time next year,and just looking at options when it comes to money and how much I can/need to spend on one,along with maintainence etc etc
Now,I know there are places that you can rent car's out from,looking at this site,you pay £795 for 4 day's of having a 360,now do many owner's do thing's like this to help fund the car? I know someone who has a Bently GT in London who rent's their car out during the week,help's pay towards the car each month etc etc
http://www.supercarexperiences.com/vroom/experienc...
On top of that,does anyone know of any device where you can track how fast the car is going/limit speeds/monitor car's location without breaking any laws for privacy etc etc??
Something,where if someone was doing excessive speed's you can kick in a limiter onto the car and which would drop speed down to legal limit's etc??
If I was to get one,it wouldn't be used by me during the week anyway,be just for weekends,I currently have an R33 GTR which is for sale,and already have secured myself an R34 GTR,so I'd have two toy's to use when I want to..
Be nice to get everyone's thoughts,please do not add any comments of "you can't afford it then if you need to rent it out etc etc",I have already thought of the pro's and con's of this idea. If the car was to be let out for £795 for 4 day's,every week,that would be nearly £2400 a month coming in towards maintainence amongst other things if that car was taken each and every week..
Thanks
Now,I know there are places that you can rent car's out from,looking at this site,you pay £795 for 4 day's of having a 360,now do many owner's do thing's like this to help fund the car? I know someone who has a Bently GT in London who rent's their car out during the week,help's pay towards the car each month etc etc
http://www.supercarexperiences.com/vroom/experienc...
On top of that,does anyone know of any device where you can track how fast the car is going/limit speeds/monitor car's location without breaking any laws for privacy etc etc??
Something,where if someone was doing excessive speed's you can kick in a limiter onto the car and which would drop speed down to legal limit's etc??
If I was to get one,it wouldn't be used by me during the week anyway,be just for weekends,I currently have an R33 GTR which is for sale,and already have secured myself an R34 GTR,so I'd have two toy's to use when I want to..
Be nice to get everyone's thoughts,please do not add any comments of "you can't afford it then if you need to rent it out etc etc",I have already thought of the pro's and con's of this idea. If the car was to be let out for £795 for 4 day's,every week,that would be nearly £2400 a month coming in towards maintainence amongst other things if that car was taken each and every week..
Thanks
Interesting. Have you considered that the car may not be rented out at all over the duration of a month? Worse case scenario of course. If you are relying on the car being rented out to fund it then I wouldn't. If it's just extra money and you are ok with someone potentially driving your car hard or thrashing it then perhaps look further into it. Keep in mind consumables like tyres etc and who will be covering the cost of those considering you may be doing far less driving than the clients of the company renting out your car.
For a car which is now at a pretty good price point, I'd probably keep it to myself rather than run the risk and more importantly, avoid the headache.
For a car which is now at a pretty good price point, I'd probably keep it to myself rather than run the risk and more importantly, avoid the headache.
I'd be considering that if the engine/gearbox goes pop it will wipe out your slush fund youve built up.
Perhaps be as cautious as allowing for one or other every 10,000 miles just to be sure as everyone knows how a hire car gets driven, especially when someone has paid £750+ for a once in the lifetime opportunity.
I'm sure the above wouldn't happen but better to errr on the side of financial caution
Perhaps be as cautious as allowing for one or other every 10,000 miles just to be sure as everyone knows how a hire car gets driven, especially when someone has paid £750+ for a once in the lifetime opportunity.
I'm sure the above wouldn't happen but better to errr on the side of financial caution
JapFreak786 said:
If the car was to be let out for £795 for 4 day's,every week,that would be nearly £2400 a month coming in towards maintainence amongst other things if that car was taken each and every week..
That's gross income. All that matters to YOU is the net income.Net additional income from not renting out = £0 (by definition)
Net additional income from renting out =
£795 x 4
- fees from rental company (commission to manage bookings and take deposits)
- additional service costs (routine services)
- additional maintenance costs (tyres/brakes)
- additional depreciation (both due to mileage and condition)
- additional insurance costs (don't underestimate these as it will be expensive to have 'randoms' let loose!)
- additional cleaning/valet costs (between each rental).
Also, you're hoping your customers will book out the car every week, but in fact you're unlikely to be fully booked, particularly in rainy months.
You're also expecting them to use the car in the week, leaving it available to you at weekends, when in fact you're more likely customers would want long weekends.
What contingency would you put in place for the car being damaged and you therefore being unable to fulfil subsequent booking?
Also, the market is pretty full of people/companies offering to rent out supercars so you'll have to price the car 'competitively' (not too expensive) in order to get bookings. And you will also likely find that some of the companies renting these cars out will do the servicing etc themselves to keep costs down and hence they will undercut you on price to customer unless you can do your own servicing too.
What I'm getting at is that there will be big pressure on your prices to keep them low, but there are also some very steep running costs (detailed above) which will kick in when you start renting the car out.
If you can afford the car without the potential extra income then great; if you can make a bit extra on the side then all the better. However if you are relying on the extra income to afford the car then you'll potentially find yourself stuck in the future if bookings decrease or prices/costs move to make the business non-viable.
I would only consider buying the car if I can afford it,without having to rent it out,however if there's the possibily to hire the car out then it would mean money back into my pocket,even if it just pay's for the servicing on the car each month,or the tyres etc etc
I also realised I added £795 wrong,should be nearly £3200 max potential income basing it upon that website,however I would proberly use a hire company local to me who would be able to handle most things on my behalf,even if they were to taken 50% on the income from the car being hired out,it would still equate to £1600 a month.
I'm not afraid to work on the car myself,have done so on all my previous car's,have access to a 4 poster ramp whenever I want,and also a garage at home large enough to keep 3 car's inside with ease. Have removed and fitted turbos,suspension,servicing etc all myself,so the maintainence of the car itself could possibly be carried out by me,so the costs would only be parts etc,while I could also get the Solihull Ferrari branch to carry out a stamped service every few thousand mile's if needed to keep the history of the car maintained if and when I came to sell the car on,I take plenty of picture's of the work I do myself,so I culd always supply these to any potential new owners if they wanted,so they didn't need to question what had,and had not been done.
Having the car let out during the weekends again wouldn't be an issue,as if this was to go ahead,I would still have my R34 GTR which I can use on weekends when the 360 isn't with me,and use the 360 when it's home in-between,I do intend of driving my car's,no point having them as displays in the garage..
High speed driving etc is majoy concern,but it comes with the car,and it's not like something that I wouldn't want to do myself,and is also a reason as to why I would want the option to know where the car is by having a GPS device fitted,and the ability to tell the driver to slow down and put in a limit myself on the car's speed,could even have it on the ad that it has been limited to 120mph etc or something?
Again,this is just an option I'm considering,and I wouldn't be depending on rental income to pay for the car,I would only buy the car if I can afford it without needing to rent it out..
I also realised I added £795 wrong,should be nearly £3200 max potential income basing it upon that website,however I would proberly use a hire company local to me who would be able to handle most things on my behalf,even if they were to taken 50% on the income from the car being hired out,it would still equate to £1600 a month.
I'm not afraid to work on the car myself,have done so on all my previous car's,have access to a 4 poster ramp whenever I want,and also a garage at home large enough to keep 3 car's inside with ease. Have removed and fitted turbos,suspension,servicing etc all myself,so the maintainence of the car itself could possibly be carried out by me,so the costs would only be parts etc,while I could also get the Solihull Ferrari branch to carry out a stamped service every few thousand mile's if needed to keep the history of the car maintained if and when I came to sell the car on,I take plenty of picture's of the work I do myself,so I culd always supply these to any potential new owners if they wanted,so they didn't need to question what had,and had not been done.
Having the car let out during the weekends again wouldn't be an issue,as if this was to go ahead,I would still have my R34 GTR which I can use on weekends when the 360 isn't with me,and use the 360 when it's home in-between,I do intend of driving my car's,no point having them as displays in the garage..
High speed driving etc is majoy concern,but it comes with the car,and it's not like something that I wouldn't want to do myself,and is also a reason as to why I would want the option to know where the car is by having a GPS device fitted,and the ability to tell the driver to slow down and put in a limit myself on the car's speed,could even have it on the ad that it has been limited to 120mph etc or something?
Again,this is just an option I'm considering,and I wouldn't be depending on rental income to pay for the car,I would only buy the car if I can afford it without needing to rent it out..
JapFreak786 said:
I also realised I added £795 wrong,should be nearly £3200 max potential income basing it upon that website,however I would proberly use a hire company local to me who would be able to handle most things on my behalf,even if they were to taken 50% on the income from the car being hired out,it would still equate to £1600 a month.
But have you worked out how much EXTRA you'll have to pay for the fees/servicing/maintenance/depreciation/insurance/cleaning? If you didn't rent the car out then you'd not have to pay for these things as much/frequently. So you have to work out whether you'd be making money or losing money on it.(As don't forget, even if you're doing the labour yourself you could still end up making a loss if the customers were to incur costs as above which exceed the amount you're being paid by them. It's not the case that it will always be beneficial to you, you could end up LOSING money if the figures don't stack up.)
Ah yes i understand that now sorry,must have mis-read that. Though I guess I'll have to wait till the time come's before I can actually find out what these figures will be as they're all variable and no doubt will change in the next 12 months,I do however have plenty of time to do some research and find out as much infomation as I can relating to all of those 
Is there anyone on here that does something similar with their car's? Be interesting to get your opinion.
Is there anyone on here that does something similar with their car's? Be interesting to get your opinion.
You might want to have a good read through this PH thread. It all started with this image and went downhill from here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
Dominic H said:
You might want to have a good read through this PH thread. It all started with this image and went downhill from here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
GOOD GREIF!http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
In a nutshell the OP came across a huge crash which wrote the Aston off. The occupants were unhurt but it seems they were racing a BMW which they hit and then had the big crash. Then the cars owner comes on and explains that he rented it out via a company which only rented to 25y/o+ professionals, but they actually sublet it to another hire firm who rented it out to a 24y/o. The insurance won't cover it due to the ages/racing and the owners of the business which the owner rented it out to initially are seemingly not helping out. The current situation (as at 9pm today per that thread) it seems that the owner is about £112k out of pocket. Scary stuff.
There's also a lot of people on that thread questioning the sanity of anyone who'd rent their P&J out in this way. (A great analogy being that it's akin to pimping out your wife to help pay for her upkeep!!) However it's easy for those people to be judgemental in hindsight, once it's all gone wrong.
One thing I would question, though, is why such car hire companies don't buy the cars themselves? Clearly there's a cash flow issue with them having to buy them outright, but it would be entirely possible for them to get a loan to buy the cars and use the rental 'profits' after deducting insurance/running expenses to make the loan repayments. If there's not enough money left to pay the loan payments, then it's not a money making business and you'd be better off putting the money in a bond!!
My worry is that the car hire companies have spent more time looking at the REAL cost of running hire cars like this, and they are able to make their own profit by avoiding the big expenses by using people such as the OP to provide the cars in good faith. Go on, think about it: Why would they rent your car from you if it was more profitable to buy and run the car themselves? The answer must be that it isn't. They will 'make hay' while the car's running but I would imagine that you'd be the one left well out of pocket when the gearbox/engine blows up and they will swan off into the sunset with no liability to you...
If the car is on finance, you can't hire it out - you'll be in breach of your agreement with the finance company (if you have one).
My advice on this one is steer well clear. Without a cast iron legal agreement between you and the hire company, you are in for trouble.
A Ferrari 360 will no doubt be abused by a proportion of the hirers, and Ferraris don't take abuse well.
Ensure the car is hired on the hire companies insurance, and that it is covered for self drive hire. In answer to your question about tracking devices, there are many on the market, but limiting speed or revs is generally not possible for legal reasons. Imagine overtaking a car in a tight spot only to find a limiter of some sort comes on
Always remember - the fastest car in the world is a hire car
My advice on this one is steer well clear. Without a cast iron legal agreement between you and the hire company, you are in for trouble.
A Ferrari 360 will no doubt be abused by a proportion of the hirers, and Ferraris don't take abuse well.
Ensure the car is hired on the hire companies insurance, and that it is covered for self drive hire. In answer to your question about tracking devices, there are many on the market, but limiting speed or revs is generally not possible for legal reasons. Imagine overtaking a car in a tight spot only to find a limiter of some sort comes on
Always remember - the fastest car in the world is a hire car
One can argue about the exact economics and legality of hiring a supercar out to cover maintenance and depreciation costs etc. However by far the most important thing is your personal attitude towards your car being driven by somone that you don't know and may not drive it with the same level of care and mechanical sympathy that you would yourself. If you buy a Ferrari and start calling it your "pride and joy" like many would, then I'd say psychologically you should not be hiring your car out. As a member of ecurie where some members put several of their personal supercars out to be rented by other members, you realise that whilst worst case scenarios are never nice to confront, the car owners don't have the same level of personal attachment to the car in the first place (and the scheme is run in a much more transparent and professional way).
Have a look at www.dreamcarhire.com and they have done very well. Worth to pay a visit and see how the business works !
I have hired a couple of cars off them and the service were excellent.
I have hired a couple of cars off them and the service were excellent.
mrmr96 said:
Dominic H said:
You might want to have a good read through this PH thread. It all started with this image and went downhill from here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
GOOD GREIF!http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
D.
In a nutshell the OP came across a huge crash which wrote the Aston off. The occupants were unhurt but it seems they were racing a BMW which they hit and then had the big crash. Then the cars owner comes on and explains that he rented it out via a company which only rented to 25y/o+ professionals, but they actually sublet it to another hire firm who rented it out to a 24y/o. The insurance won't cover it due to the ages/racing and the owners of the business which the owner rented it out to initially are seemingly not helping out. The current situation (as at 9pm today per that thread) it seems that the owner is about £112k out of pocket. Scary stuff.
sorry not been on in a while,work keeping me busy and also trying to sell my R33 off..
seems like renting out isn't the best of things to do then,i don't want anything like that to happen to me! the only option would be for those track day events,but even then,i have my doubts now about it all.
Guess we'll see when the time comes,although,looks like it will be enjoyed by me and my family only once I buy it
seems like renting out isn't the best of things to do then,i don't want anything like that to happen to me! the only option would be for those track day events,but even then,i have my doubts now about it all.
Guess we'll see when the time comes,although,looks like it will be enjoyed by me and my family only once I buy it
jas xjr said:
I was Stoke yesterday and an Asian wedding was taking place.an Audi r8 was being ragged repeatedly up and down a side street in 1st and 2nd gear. Just hope it was not hired
Ironically in Asian culture there is an old saying that my Mom sometimes reminds me of:"There are two things you should never lend to anyone - the first is your wife, and the second your car".
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