California T or F430

[willy wombat]

PS don’t be misled into thinking that the California and Portofino are “slow”. I’ve done various Ferrari events in Italy and had no problem on the public roads keeping up with the Ferrari convoys which included pretty well every typo of modern Ferrari (and which of course subscribed to the view that Italian speed limits don’t apply to Ferraris). On track however you’d struggle to keep up with mid engine V8s and V12s (although it depends on how well they’re driven and how well you drive).

[NRG1976]

Thanks, I’m close to buying one from a dealer.

The biggest selling point they are giving me is that it comes with a 2 year approved warranty.

Do dealers prep the car properly, i.e. would I need to worry about ceramic discs being overly worn etc? Can I just buy blind and get the car delivered (as it’s a distance away)?

Also will that Ferrari approved warranty mean I can have 2 years worry free motoring, I was worried about the big costs such as gearbox or engine failures?

When I spoke to the salesperson I explicitly asked about the gearbox given the sensor failure issues and they said any issue with the gearbox they would sort under warranty or goodwill ?

[NRG1976]

This is the car

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406221...

[ratrod 2]

NRG1976 said:

So really fancy scratching that Ferrari itch and plan on doing about 3500 miles a year in it. Ideally looking for a model which is cheapest on running cost and most straightforward to sell privately as I only keep most cars for about 18 months, Trying to stick to a max £80k budget, would love your views on my questions…

In general terms:

1. Would the California T likely be more reliable than the F430 and cheaper to run ?
2. Would the California be easier to resell privately than a F430? (assume both cars being red and auto)?
3. Should I hold out for the handling pack on California T ?

Thanks


ETA: was thinking of going for this one
https://www.warfordcarsltd.co.uk/details/used-car-...

Depends if you want a super car or a cruiser really,

The 430 is more than capable of being used as a daily driver if necessary but then it might not feel so special at the weekends,

Was told by Ferrari that they made the California as they felt they where missing out to customers who thought Ferrari's to raw and

preferring the ease of driving cars like the Mercedes SL's ,

[Trev450]

NRG1976 said:

Thanks, I’m close to buying one from a dealer.

The biggest selling point they are giving me is that it comes with a 2 year approved warranty.

Do dealers prep the car properly, i.e. would I need to worry about ceramic discs being overly worn etc? Can I just buy blind and get the car delivered (as it’s a distance away)?

Also will that Ferrari approved warranty mean I can have 2 years worry free motoring, I was worried about the big costs such as gearbox or engine failures?

When I spoke to the salesperson I explicitly asked about the gearbox given the sensor failure issues and they said any issue with the gearbox they would sort under warranty or goodwill ?

If you request a copy of the health check that is part of the pre sale warranty requirement it will give the percentage wear on the discs.

Similarly, ask for the document that outlines the conditions of the warranty.

[Boleros]

Trev450 said:

Similarly, ask for the document that outlines the conditions of the warranty.

This should be your start point and if there's anything you're not sure about - ask. I guess you could ask for a letter guaranteeing a warranty fix on part X but I don't know if that's even realistic.

For what it's worth, go and collect it if you can. When living in Colchester I collected my first ever Porsche from Glasgow, flew up and drove down. I was so excited at the thought of collecting it in person and spending a few hours in it soaking it all in.

[NRG1976]

Thanks, all I can find is this, i will speak to the dealer tomorrow to see if there is any document. I assume a sensor failure wouldn’t be “normal wear” ?


A Ferrari Approved has the advantage of a Ferrari warranty up to 24 months in Europe, USA, Middle East & China and 12 months in the rest of the world. This warranty covers the cost of numerous spare parts and cost of work of the principal repair works.

Excluded are parts included in ordinary assistance, such as tyres, brake pads and disks, or parts, which have to be exchanged due to normal wear. A Ferrari Approved has an unlimited mileage warranty of two years. The warranty covers the costs of defects and reparations, including spare parts and repair works. Furthermore it is guaranteed that works will be carried out by Ferrari technicians exclusively using original spare parts.

Edited by NRG1976 on Saturday 22 June 21:32

[murphyaj]

NRG1976 said:

This is the car

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406221...

Wow I didn't realised Californias had dropped to the point you can get a Cali T from a main dealer for £82500, that is an awful lot of car for the money.

Re delivery, don't forget that you have the legal right to reject the car up to 30 days after purchase if anything isn't right, so there isn't really much risk from that point. However as someone else has pointed out, if you can get down there you'll probably not regret it, the dealership handover experience is very nice.

Can't see how they could argue that gearbox sensor failure is wear and tear. I have heard that they are very good at getting out of paying for claims, but that the engine and gearbox are pretty solidly covered. If you are so worried about that particular part I'd speak to Ferrari directly and make sure it is covered, at least then you will know.

Edited by murphyaj on Sunday 23 June 07:55

[Hoofy]

Isn't the gearbox sensor a common issue so it must be well-known to an official dealer?

Re Graypaul and the dealer collection experience, ISTR a PHer recently raving about their recentish collection of their Cali T. It sounds like it was quite a memorable experience so well worth the travel.

As an aside, there's a little thing to consider - the Cali T won't sound quite as good as the 430 as there are two turbos in the way...

Edited by Hoofy on Sunday 23 June 10:16

[Hoofy]

ratrod 2 said:

The 430 is more than capable of being used as a daily driver if necessary but then it might not feel so special at the weekends,

Was told by Ferrari that they made the California as they felt they where missing out to customers who thought Ferrari's to raw and preferring the ease of driving cars like the Mercedes SL's ,

I guess it's down to the individual. Once upon a time, I'd hit the gym hard and be happy to drive home in a drag-tuned Skyline GTR with a triple plate clutch. Nowdays, after hitting the gym or tennis courts and then dragging my feet across the car park, I cba to drive home in an automatic 911 Turbo (oft described as the everyday supercar). So whilst I'd love a 430 or LP560, I suspect a Cali is better suited for my needs (or do I jump straight to the DB9 and grab my pipe and slippers?).

[ratrod 2]

Hoofy said:

ratrod 2 said:

The 430 is more than capable of being used as a daily driver if necessary but then it might not feel so special at the weekends,

Was told by Ferrari that they made the California as they felt they where missing out to customers who thought Ferrari's to raw and preferring the ease of driving cars like the Mercedes SL's ,

I guess it's down to the individual. Once upon a time, I'd hit the gym hard and be happy to drive home in a drag-tuned Skyline GTR with a triple plate clutch. Nowdays, after hitting the gym or tennis courts and then dragging my feet across the car park, I cba to drive home in an automatic 911 Turbo (oft described as the everyday supercar). So whilst I'd love a 430 or LP560, I suspect a Cali is better suited for my needs (or do I jump straight to the DB9 and grab my pipe and slippers?).

Great post and all very true,

Having owned a 500 bhp Skyline GTR with a triple clutch i found it never necessary to go to a gym,

Have also owned a couple of 911 Turbo's but the earlier 930 widow maker models which my only claim

to fame is parking one on it's roof in the middle of the New Forest when running out of talent one afternoon,

Yet to drive a modern Turbo but i think you have a very good point not that i have ever been inside a gym in my life,

As long as it's a F1 the 430 (apart from carry four just about) will do anything the 911 will do really ,just press that auto button ,

They are a real pussy cat unlike the manual Gallardo i once owned ,

[ollyh1988]

Hoofy said:

Isn't the gearbox sensor a common issue so it must be well-known to an official dealer?

Re Graypaul and the dealer collection experience, ISTR a PHer recently raving about their recentish collection of their Cali T. It sounds like it was quite a memorable experience so well worth the travel.

As an aside, there's a little thing to consider - the Cali T won't sound quite as good as the 430 as there are two turbos in the way...

Edited by Hoofy on Sunday 23 June 10:16

I bought a California through Graypaul and it was an amazing experience. We travelled a long way to get ours so they paid for flights and an overnight stay in a wonderful hotel - a great start to the ownership experience. The other benefit of buying from the main dealer is the events we have been invited on - we went to Rome to drive the Roma Spider and I’ve been able to drive a few cars on different dealership event days.
That Cali T looks great!

[Hoofy]

ollyh1988 said:

Hoofy said:

Isn't the gearbox sensor a common issue so it must be well-known to an official dealer?

Re Graypaul and the dealer collection experience, ISTR a PHer recently raving about their recentish collection of their Cali T. It sounds like it was quite a memorable experience so well worth the travel.

As an aside, there's a little thing to consider - the Cali T won't sound quite as good as the 430 as there are two turbos in the way...

Edited by Hoofy on Sunday 23 June 10:16

I bought a California through Graypaul and it was an amazing experience. We travelled a long way to get ours so they paid for flights and an overnight stay in a wonderful hotel - a great start to the ownership experience. The other benefit of buying from the main dealer is the events we have been invited on - we went to Rome to drive the Roma Spider and I’ve been able to drive a few cars on different dealership event days.
That Cali T looks great!

Ah, it was you. Your write-up was interesting to read.

[Hoofy]

ratrod 2 said:

Great post and all very true,

Having owned a 500 bhp Skyline GTR with a triple clutch i found it never necessary to go to a gym,

Have also owned a couple of 911 Turbo's but the earlier 930 widow maker models which my only claim

to fame is parking one on it's roof in the middle of the New Forest when running out of talent one afternoon,

Yet to drive a modern Turbo but i think you have a very good point not that i have ever been inside a gym in my life,

As long as it's a F1 the 430 (apart from carry four just about) will do anything the 911 will do really ,just press that auto button ,

They are a real pussy cat unlike the manual Gallardo i once owned ,

Thanks.

With a triple plate clutch, I think it's important to go to the gym in order to avoid having a larger left leg.

Glad you made it after your talent ran out! I hear those old school 911 Turbos are challenging to drive, not having 4WD. My 996 Turbo is a bit safer and I'm happy with that (it can sometimes get a bit hairy in the wet, still), but it's definitely still tiring to drive. I think someone mentioned that the more modern 911 Turbos are easier to live with but you lose some of that involvement and they're quite cosseting compared to 996 and 997 specs.

Interesting re the F1 box. I don't know much about the F1 box but from what I've read about the auto button on the Gallardo e-gear, you don't press that unless you want to go through clutches quickly. I understand the optimum way to use the e-gear is to put it in sport mode (read: ultra jerky changes) and lift the throttle between changes (reduces the jerkiness so you don't break your neck). And never ever reverse.

[ratrod 2]

Hoofy said:

Thanks.

With a triple plate clutch, I think it's important to go to the gym in order to avoid having a larger left leg.

Glad you made it after your talent ran out! I hear those old school 911 Turbos are challenging to drive, not having 4WD. My 996 Turbo is a bit safer and I'm happy with that (it can sometimes get a bit hairy in the wet, still), but it's definitely still tiring to drive. I think someone mentioned that the more modern 911 Turbos are easier to live with but you lose some of that involvement and they're quite cosseting compared to 996 and 997 specs.

Interesting re the F1 box. I don't know much about the F1 box but from what I've read about the auto button on the Gallardo e-gear, you don't press that unless you want to go through clutches quickly. I understand the optimum way to use the e-gear is to put it in sport mode (read: ultra jerky changes) and lift the throttle between changes (reduces the jerkiness so you don't break your neck). And never ever reverse.

Although the F430 gear change is light years ahead of say the F355 and F360 it still needs some involvement as a driver still needs to lift slightly

for smoother changes and respect for the life of the clutch , As far as reverse goes try to make sure to keep the distance as short as possible

preferably not on a gradient ,

Only ever drove once in auto for the first few miles after taking delivery until i got accustomed to my new surrounding

and first time ever driving a paddle shift car, Preferably would have gone for a manual but not for the extra £35k plus being

asked at the time of buying. As far as the Gallardo E-Gear is concerned never driven one but with the small difference between

a manual or the e-Gear it was a no-brainer to buy a manual.

Would love to drive a PDK later 911 Turbo or any other model in the range before making any decision on buying a manual,

As far as the gym goes not sure if the exercise will kill me or the sight of all those tight leotards these young ladies wear

[Gary C]

murphyaj said:

The F1 box is also nowhere near as bad as motoring journalists would have you believe; learn to use it properly and it's absolutely fine.

Not an owner, but I really noticed in the F430 how much better the F1 box is the harder you drive it. At 1/10th it was a little clunky, but at 9/10ths it was perfect and bizarrely for a non manual box, felt so 'mechanical' and part of the driving experience.

[Hoofy]

ratrod 2 said:

Although the F430 gear change is light years ahead of say the F355 and F360 it still needs some involvement as a driver still needs to lift slightly

for smoother changes and respect for the life of the clutch , As far as reverse goes try to make sure to keep the distance as short as possible

preferably not on a gradient ,

Only ever drove once in auto for the first few miles after taking delivery until i got accustomed to my new surrounding

and first time ever driving a paddle shift car, Preferably would have gone for a manual but not for the extra £35k plus being

asked at the time of buying. As far as the Gallardo E-Gear is concerned never driven one but with the small difference between

a manual or the e-Gear it was a no-brainer to buy a manual.

Would love to drive a PDK later 911 Turbo or any other model in the range before making any decision on buying a manual,

As far as the gym goes not sure if the exercise will kill me or the sight of all those tight leotards these young ladies wear

Sounds like the F1 box is exactly like the E-Gear, then!

Starting to wonder if a PDK Porsche would suit me more these days. Hm. One annoying aspect - Porsches don't sound that great unless you get a 992 GT3 with an aftermarket exhaust.

Why do you think I go to the gym?

[murphyaj]

Hoofy said:

Interesting re the F1 box. I don't know much about the F1 box but from what I've read about the auto button on the Gallardo e-gear, you don't press that unless you want to go through clutches quickly. I understand the optimum way to use the e-gear is to put it in sport mode (read: ultra jerky changes) and lift the throttle between changes (reduces the jerkiness so you don't break your neck). And never ever reverse.

100%
Owned my 430 F1 for three years, drove it in auto exactly once for about 10 minutes on the day I picked it up.
Pressed the auto button, drove around for a while, "yup, that's pretty crap", turned it off and never felt the need to try again. Treat it like a manual and it's absolutely fine.

[NRG1976]

Thanks for all the responses, really appreciated.

70% worn front discs on 30k miles on the cali I linked sounds like it’s had a hard life? Factor in the cost of a replacements (c£6.5k+) and might as well put the extra money in and get a lower mileage example?

[Trev450]

NRG1976 said:

Thanks for all the responses, really appreciated.

70% worn front discs on 30k miles on the cali I linked sounds like it’s had a hard life? Factor in the cost of a replacements (c£6.5k+) and might as well put the extra money in and get a lower mileage example?

70 percent wear in 30k miles is indeed excessive. Have you asked them if they are prepared to replace them?