Cerbera, the differences
Discussion
OK, so I've take a 4.5 out and I liked it, so now I'm seriously considering it.
I sort of know the pros and cons of 4.5 over a 4.2 (or not as the case may be) what I'd like more info on is the differences between a standard, a l/w and a red rose.
On a lightweight what is light? Is it just the lights and wheels? Does it really make a difference?
Then the Red Rose, what does that involve, how much more power? Is that really noticable? Will is be far less reliable and can it be retro fitted.
And then what about cars like Martin Redwoods, how do they differ from a normal Red Rose??
When were LW's first on the market? What can I expect to pay for one?
Also what sort of costs are involved in changing the lights on a standard 4.5 to the lw ones?
Do they still make the standard car with normal lights and wheels?
Sorry for all the questions, I warn you now there will be many more.
Cheers
David
I sort of know the pros and cons of 4.5 over a 4.2 (or not as the case may be) what I'd like more info on is the differences between a standard, a l/w and a red rose.
On a lightweight what is light? Is it just the lights and wheels? Does it really make a difference?
Then the Red Rose, what does that involve, how much more power? Is that really noticable? Will is be far less reliable and can it be retro fitted.
And then what about cars like Martin Redwoods, how do they differ from a normal Red Rose??
When were LW's first on the market? What can I expect to pay for one?
Also what sort of costs are involved in changing the lights on a standard 4.5 to the lw ones?
Do they still make the standard car with normal lights and wheels?
Sorry for all the questions, I warn you now there will be many more.
Cheers
David
are you sure you are not a woman..... only a woman can ask that many questions,
You won't notice the difference between all the options... execpt to look at!
Juat make sure you get one that works... and has a decent history, get a warranty, they all go wrong...just some more than others!
You won't notice the difference between all the options... execpt to look at!
Juat make sure you get one that works... and has a decent history, get a warranty, they all go wrong...just some more than others!
I believe the LW was launch at the 1999 motorshow and comprised of a few slightly lighter panels (only a few KGs), and thinner front roll bar for better visibility and of cause the small Tuscan style lights. So you could go for a late 99 LW for around £30K. Some time in late 2000 they introduced the spider wheels to the LW and these can be retro fitted for approx £160/wheel.
I think MRs Red Rose was the 2nd one made (?) and is a standard RR (but then maybe Martin should answer the question). These were first introduced in early 2001 and the engine mods can be retro fitted but probably at something like £5-£6K? From what I remember the biggest difference is at the top end of the rev range.
Thing is I'm sure a pre-LW 4.5 is faster enough for most people and you can certainly get the cosmetic upgrades (lights via Zertec and wheels from your dealer) for a reasonable sum. At the other end of the scale I think Hawthorns still have a cancelled order fully-loaded (with CR box) RR for sale at £58K!!!!!
BTW these are typical mods that the guys on the yahoogroups cerbera egroup list are having done so if you join up you'll get all the answers you need from them.
cheers,
Mike.
I think MRs Red Rose was the 2nd one made (?) and is a standard RR (but then maybe Martin should answer the question). These were first introduced in early 2001 and the engine mods can be retro fitted but probably at something like £5-£6K? From what I remember the biggest difference is at the top end of the rev range.
Thing is I'm sure a pre-LW 4.5 is faster enough for most people and you can certainly get the cosmetic upgrades (lights via Zertec and wheels from your dealer) for a reasonable sum. At the other end of the scale I think Hawthorns still have a cancelled order fully-loaded (with CR box) RR for sale at £58K!!!!!
BTW these are typical mods that the guys on the yahoogroups cerbera egroup list are having done so if you join up you'll get all the answers you need from them.
cheers,
Mike.
Search the Cerbera threads - there's a lot of information in answer to your questions there.
The 4.5LW added Tuscan-style seats, body coloured A-pillars and rear window surround as well as the front lights.
RR added manually switchable fuel mapping (UL/SUL), rumours of some suspension changes and option of CR gearbox (I think). As to whether you'd notice these I'm unsure - certainly not to look at the car (unless you can find the marker pen scrawl on the engine
).
Find a good one - and enjoy
The 4.5LW added Tuscan-style seats, body coloured A-pillars and rear window surround as well as the front lights.
RR added manually switchable fuel mapping (UL/SUL), rumours of some suspension changes and option of CR gearbox (I think). As to whether you'd notice these I'm unsure - certainly not to look at the car (unless you can find the marker pen scrawl on the engine
). Find a good one - and enjoy
OK - here's the definitive Red Rose thing :
My car and Christof's were the first 2 LW Red Rose cars. According to TVR Centre, the engine was set up and developed on my car - hence 100 delivery miles when I got it - our cars are putting out a genuine 400 BHP plus, I think mine was 412 BHP. The close ratio box was developed for the Tuscan, but they fitted it to my one anyway.
These mods were all done as a special addition for Christof and I, mainly 'cos we had 6 TVR's each and were not too happy with our (early) Tuscans. Therefore it wasn't advertised and we kept quiet about it.
Subsequently they did a few more, which are copies of the modified engines, before finally releasing it as an official option.
You should see an extra 20 -25 BHP with the Red Rose, you get a 95/97 RON switch to prevent detonation and should notice a difference in acceleration to a standard 4.5. The close ratio box improves things further - try 95 in 2nd gear - plus less rev drop between changes.
And yes, my car is "going for a song" as I need to sell it quick as I now have an Exige and an Evo 7.
Martin Redwood
My car and Christof's were the first 2 LW Red Rose cars. According to TVR Centre, the engine was set up and developed on my car - hence 100 delivery miles when I got it - our cars are putting out a genuine 400 BHP plus, I think mine was 412 BHP. The close ratio box was developed for the Tuscan, but they fitted it to my one anyway.
These mods were all done as a special addition for Christof and I, mainly 'cos we had 6 TVR's each and were not too happy with our (early) Tuscans. Therefore it wasn't advertised and we kept quiet about it.
Subsequently they did a few more, which are copies of the modified engines, before finally releasing it as an official option.
You should see an extra 20 -25 BHP with the Red Rose, you get a 95/97 RON switch to prevent detonation and should notice a difference in acceleration to a standard 4.5. The close ratio box improves things further - try 95 in 2nd gear - plus less rev drop between changes.
And yes, my car is "going for a song" as I need to sell it quick as I now have an Exige and an Evo 7.
Martin Redwood
quote:
OK - here's the definitive Red Rose thing :
My car and Christof's were the first 2 LW Red Rose cars. According to TVR Centre, the engine was set up and developed on my car - hence 100 delivery miles when I got it - our cars are putting out a genuine 400 BHP plus, I think mine was 412 BHP. The close ratio box was developed for the Tuscan, but they fitted it to my one anyway.
These mods were all done as a special addition for Christof and I, mainly 'cos we had 6 TVR's each and were not too happy with our (early) Tuscans. Therefore it wasn't advertised and we kept quiet about it.
Subsequently they did a few more, which are copies of the modified engines, before finally releasing it as an official option.
You should see an extra 20 -25 BHP with the Red Rose, you get a 95/97 RON switch to prevent detonation and should notice a difference in acceleration to a standard 4.5. The close ratio box improves things further - try 95 in 2nd gear - plus less rev drop between changes.
And yes, my car is "going for a song" as I need to sell it quick as I now have an Exige and an Evo 7.
Martin Redwood
Martin
Thanks for that, so have all RR cars got the c/r box? How have you found the car, compared to earlier Cerberas? Have you had any reliability issues with it?
I must say it is tempting, we will be moving in the next few weeks, then once we figure out how much we have to spend on the house I'll understand what I can spend on a car, I let you know if it is feasable (mind you I'm sure you'll have sold it my then).
How does the performance compare with the Lotus and Evo and your old Tuscan (did you ever get a Porsche?)?
Cheers
David
No, not all cars have the CR box, I know of 3.
Reliability hasn't been too bad, an oil leak (dodgy seal) and an improved head. Also had racing pistons fitted (apparently) so it's noisy until warm. Perfect now !
Exige is a much better track car, but not really happening on the road. Performance is between 5000 and 7500 revs, so you have to keep the engine screaming to get it going. Handling and grip is clearly from another world !
Evo 7 (FQ300) should be coming next week, have driven an import, it's quick and grippy, but not as exciting as a Cerbera. Plus it has that awful spoiler on the back and a suspect image. No, didn't get a Porsche, managed to fracture my skull playing football 2 weeks before getting a GT3, knocked some sense into me and I cancelled. Probably be back in a TVR soon !
Reliability hasn't been too bad, an oil leak (dodgy seal) and an improved head. Also had racing pistons fitted (apparently) so it's noisy until warm. Perfect now !
Exige is a much better track car, but not really happening on the road. Performance is between 5000 and 7500 revs, so you have to keep the engine screaming to get it going. Handling and grip is clearly from another world !
Evo 7 (FQ300) should be coming next week, have driven an import, it's quick and grippy, but not as exciting as a Cerbera. Plus it has that awful spoiler on the back and a suspect image. No, didn't get a Porsche, managed to fracture my skull playing football 2 weeks before getting a GT3, knocked some sense into me and I cancelled. Probably be back in a TVR soon !
quote:If Martin is saying his is definitely over 400 tvrbhp, and the standard Cerbera's all on a dyno so far are around 350 real bhp tops, then it should be more than 50 extra.
RR = Extra 20bhp. Not sure how they achieve this though.
It's achieved with higher compression, porting, different injectors, and having a super unleaded fuel/ignition map - which effectively appears to mean about 4 more degrees advance at full throttle & high revs.
Mine was the first engine to be retro converted (was one of the first LW's, had done about 14k miles) and it appears to be almost as quick as Martin's, but haven't finished running in yet. Will stick it on a dyno as soon as it's run in plus a few hundred miles.
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