Excuse my ignorance..........
Discussion
....but why do so many parts seem to go wrong and seem to so soon after leaving the factory or garage? I.e Gearboxes, Engine parts, Alternators, Clutches etc. I can understand things like switches, levers, trim etc not being as robust as normal production cars but surely TVR parts can't be that poor in design or quality?
I know these cars are a quality product in many areas like looks, power, speed, what you get for your money etc and are produced in limited numbers but I can't imagine TVR design or supply the essential mechanical parts with the knowledge that they will not last more than a few thousand miles, some do I'm sure but from what I can tell, too many vehicles have mechanical problems sooner than as expected.
I am sure the newer cars are more reliable but cars that are only >5 years of age should not have the faults or durability problems with these types of parts.
I'm a novice at handbuilt sports cars so please be gentle on me, I don't wanna come across as being stupid, just wanna know views from TVR Pro's!!
T.
Basically they do not go wrong that often. As far as ancillaries go they are not designed by TVR, but are standard off the shelf items as fitted to other manufacturers cars.
Secondly a higher than average number of TVRs are used as second cars and do not get regular use. This is bad for any car, cars work better if used regularly. Many people who have TVRs have had no problems for long periods of time, but of course, this is not 'news' so you do not hear about it.
Secondly a higher than average number of TVRs are used as second cars and do not get regular use. This is bad for any car, cars work better if used regularly. Many people who have TVRs have had no problems for long periods of time, but of course, this is not 'news' so you do not hear about it.
I don't think the breakdowns are necessarily as bad as suggested.
You know how if you use a decent pen everyday it'll write perfectly for months? Well that same pen, if you put it down for a few weeks, just won't be the same. All technology is like that to some degree - it to do partly with how we interact with it.
All sports and supersports cars are a compromise. We all want 300, 400, 500 BHP per tonne, otherwise what's the point? So you have a beast that, whilst not to the limit of fragility, has some compromises over what you'd use to build, say, a Challenger Tank. (Ooo - poor analogy, my front indicators are apparently off one of those
)
But there are a combination of factors, such as not being used frequently, insufficient TLC from start up, and then a few, but only a few, parts which are susceptible to problems.
Then this is exaggerated because, in this life you always hear more groans, grumbles and complaints than orgasms.........
You know how if you use a decent pen everyday it'll write perfectly for months? Well that same pen, if you put it down for a few weeks, just won't be the same. All technology is like that to some degree - it to do partly with how we interact with it.
All sports and supersports cars are a compromise. We all want 300, 400, 500 BHP per tonne, otherwise what's the point? So you have a beast that, whilst not to the limit of fragility, has some compromises over what you'd use to build, say, a Challenger Tank. (Ooo - poor analogy, my front indicators are apparently off one of those
) But there are a combination of factors, such as not being used frequently, insufficient TLC from start up, and then a few, but only a few, parts which are susceptible to problems.
Then this is exaggerated because, in this life you always hear more groans, grumbles and complaints than orgasms.........
The other side of the coin is that TVR build and are limited to a very tight budget, unlike Ferrari, Jaguar, Lamborghini et all they don't have the financial backing of a monster parent company to constantly give millions of pounds towards development.
As an example when working on the design and development of the new Ford fiesta it cost between 200k and 250K to build 1 early prototype in terms of money and human resource, and Ford build loads of prototypes for all types of activities, such as corrosion vehicles, dyanmics high mileage accumulation etc. The simple fact is TVR cannot afford to do this and are reliant upon "of the shelf components" to offer them a compromise of performance over longevity. The simple fact is if we still want TVR to create fast yet cheap and stunning cars we must take this fragility for granted to some degree.
As an example when working on the design and development of the new Ford fiesta it cost between 200k and 250K to build 1 early prototype in terms of money and human resource, and Ford build loads of prototypes for all types of activities, such as corrosion vehicles, dyanmics high mileage accumulation etc. The simple fact is TVR cannot afford to do this and are reliant upon "of the shelf components" to offer them a compromise of performance over longevity. The simple fact is if we still want TVR to create fast yet cheap and stunning cars we must take this fragility for granted to some degree.
The thing is they don't go wrong that often.
Some people seem to think that because it's a TVR, then cars that are 5 - 10 years (early griff's, chim's cerb's) old shouldn't have any problems at all!
Parts get old, compare them to any other make of car at this age.
I regulary attend TVR car club regional meets, (40 plus owners can turn up and I have actually heard of very few major mechanical problems, with clutches, gearboxes, etc in the newer cars, or the older ones actually.
(bar the well documented Speed 6 engine issues, majority all sorted, by warranty)
Where problems occur, lack of use is probably the biggest cause, then lack of proper maintenance. Plus it can get very hot under the bonnet, GRP body does not conduct much heat away, so things might have a shorter life, but not in my experience.
Personally I've had one alternator go after 5 years, in nearly 10 years of Griffith ownership. NO clutches, no gearboxes, no engines, no coolant problems. I do do a low mileage, but it gets driven at least once a week all year round.
minor issues a bit of loose trim, glued it back. main beam got stuck on, indicator played up. (BUT that was in 5 years of ownership)
In comparison my brand new company car (passat) through all it's electrical toys out of the pram on a regular basis. DAY one the passat indicators did not work.
If you read various porsche, ferrari, BMW, lotus, etc, owners forums around the net, you will find a near identical list of moans about all of your issues.
You rarely hear from the satisfied owner on web forums, it is usually all about sharing the horror stories. With a certain amount of my horror story is bigger than your horror story going on. That's always assuming some of these people actually own the car in question. How do you know I'm not a spotyy 14 year old, or in TVR marketing!!!!
(except of course griff2be, edT, etc, who have griffs as well and all go to TVR berks meets at The SWAN.)
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 6th March 09:49
Some people seem to think that because it's a TVR, then cars that are 5 - 10 years (early griff's, chim's cerb's) old shouldn't have any problems at all!
Parts get old, compare them to any other make of car at this age.
I regulary attend TVR car club regional meets, (40 plus owners can turn up and I have actually heard of very few major mechanical problems, with clutches, gearboxes, etc in the newer cars, or the older ones actually.
(bar the well documented Speed 6 engine issues, majority all sorted, by warranty)
Where problems occur, lack of use is probably the biggest cause, then lack of proper maintenance. Plus it can get very hot under the bonnet, GRP body does not conduct much heat away, so things might have a shorter life, but not in my experience.
Personally I've had one alternator go after 5 years, in nearly 10 years of Griffith ownership. NO clutches, no gearboxes, no engines, no coolant problems. I do do a low mileage, but it gets driven at least once a week all year round.
minor issues a bit of loose trim, glued it back. main beam got stuck on, indicator played up. (BUT that was in 5 years of ownership)
In comparison my brand new company car (passat) through all it's electrical toys out of the pram on a regular basis. DAY one the passat indicators did not work.
If you read various porsche, ferrari, BMW, lotus, etc, owners forums around the net, you will find a near identical list of moans about all of your issues.
You rarely hear from the satisfied owner on web forums, it is usually all about sharing the horror stories. With a certain amount of my horror story is bigger than your horror story going on. That's always assuming some of these people actually own the car in question. How do you know I'm not a spotyy 14 year old, or in TVR marketing!!!!
(except of course griff2be, edT, etc, who have griffs as well and all go to TVR berks meets at The SWAN.)
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Thursday 6th March 09:49
I have owned 7 TVR's, and I think the problem is that the parts used by TVR are sometimes just not up to the job. I have always had problems with clutch master cylinders for instance, and think that perhaps a cylinder for a low spec Ford may not be strong enough for use on a strong TVR clutch. As for lack of use I think this is an important issue, I always remember buying a 6 year old 390SE with 11500 miles, it was dogged with problems. Most problems I have encountered have been trim issues, apart from a dodgy engine in a 450 seac I owned, which was sorted by V8 developments.
They're nowhere near as unreliable as folks claim.
Dunno if anyone remembers the televised JD Power survey some time back where the Chimaera was somewhere near the bottom. They interviewed some griping owner who complained the door locks had gone awol and he ended up having to climb in the back window. Bloody TVRs! Then they got to the winner [or was it second place], which was a Rover of some sort I think. Interviewed some proud owner who said 'its been absolutely excellent...rave...rave...rave...the only problem I've had was the door locks broke....'.
If a TVR blows a lightbulb its front page news. If a BMW blows its engine its just one of those things.
WB
Dunno if anyone remembers the televised JD Power survey some time back where the Chimaera was somewhere near the bottom. They interviewed some griping owner who complained the door locks had gone awol and he ended up having to climb in the back window. Bloody TVRs! Then they got to the winner [or was it second place], which was a Rover of some sort I think. Interviewed some proud owner who said 'its been absolutely excellent...rave...rave...rave...the only problem I've had was the door locks broke....'.
If a TVR blows a lightbulb its front page news. If a BMW blows its engine its just one of those things.
WB
Fair comments chaps and thanks for the responses.
Just been out for a test drive in a 6 month old 4.5. Oooooohhhhhhh Yes!!! These cars are absolutely fantastic. Now I know what all the fuss is about. I didn’t stop smiling for the entire drive.
I don’t give a s**t about maintenance, quality of parts, reliability etc. I want one and want one right now. This has to be the best car I have ever driven.
(Still smiling by the way, 2 hours after getting out the car!!).
T.
Just been out for a test drive in a 6 month old 4.5. Oooooohhhhhhh Yes!!! These cars are absolutely fantastic. Now I know what all the fuss is about. I didn’t stop smiling for the entire drive.
I don’t give a s**t about maintenance, quality of parts, reliability etc. I want one and want one right now. This has to be the best car I have ever driven.
(Still smiling by the way, 2 hours after getting out the car!!).
T.
TVRs get a bad press because the press have no fear of retribution from advertising departments that never look to TVR as a source of revenue - unlike every mainstream car builder who spend fortunes with the large publications, newspapers, TV channels etc. This is partly why Clarkson, who doesn't cow to anyone, can be refreshing if not always objective. Meanwhile the Ferrari and Maserati threads are scattered with horror stories on brand new cars, some costing over £100k - read these and I guarantee you'll feel better - go on all you scahdenfreudes!
Gassing Station | Cerbera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff