Easy to stall?

Easy to stall?

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Discussion

alan_driver

Original Poster:

1,281 posts

264 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
I read in the thread, but cant find it, that someone has just bought a cerbera and finds it easy to stall.
How can that be right? with all that torque surly it wont be that easy? Is it a fault or possiably to do with the gearing?

Podie

46,645 posts

282 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

I read in the thread, but cant find it, that someone has just bought a cerbera and finds it easy to stall.
How can that be right? with all that torque surly it wont be that easy? Is it a fault or possiably to do with the gearing?



Clutch control?

tommomic

283 posts

277 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
That may be me! Just getting used to the car (its a 4.2) and I have stalled it a good few times - it always seems to be in a car park, when reversing or trying to hill start with the (almost) non-existant handbrake! Its quite an art trying to get a smooth start w/o either stalling or giving too many revs. I read in Sprint this month that a chap who moved onto a 4.5 also had a similar experience in his 4.2 - I'm not the only one!

Hope this will not be a problem once I got more used to the car, if I ever get chance!

VYT

585 posts

269 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
I have a 4.2. Took a while to get used to the clutch. It is a tad digital. Also the handbrake is useless so, on an incline, stalling is a snip.
Then there is the other problem that tickover is 900rpm and the engine can barely keep itself spinning at much less then 750rpm because the flyweel is so light.
With a bit of practice you can avoid too many embarassing moments though.

DavidP

371 posts

279 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
I have a 4.5 and can confirm the behaviour. The way it was explained to me is that the torque curve has a kink low down due to
1. Flat plane crank
2. Light flywheel
Once you are above (say) 2500 rpm, the torque dials in by the skip load, but under that, good left foot control is needed. It's a bit like hotter cam engines needing to be "on cam" before the torque is in properly. This explanation may be bolox, but it was the same in all of the ones I tested before buying mine.
The S6's that I test drove were very diferent. They all pulled smoothly from about 1000 rpm. I still prefer the V8 though.

olly

2,174 posts

291 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
You tend to find EVERYONE that test drives a Cerb for the first time stalls at least one (certainly it's rare not to). The clutch is just very different... Can't really explain how/why, but it's does take some getting used to. Once you've mastered it though, it's no worse than any other car....

paulk

319 posts

281 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
Yip its on or off! Had some fun moments but you do get used to it. It does not help that the handbrake is pants give it plenty and have fun

Paul
96 4.2

Byff

4,427 posts

268 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
Hill starts were a nightmare, I found myself slowing down early so I don't come to a complete stop or pulling away with loads of revs and looking like a prat when youve gone 0-30 in a sec then tootled along going no faster.

I'm getting better now. Just takes a while to master.

madasahatter

374 posts

274 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
What I was getting wrong when I first test drove a Cerb was that the revs rise so quickly (because of the light flywheel) that I would find myself backing off the gass a bit. They would then dive, and so as the clutch engaged, the engine would just die.

Still mastering the heel-toers guide to pulling away on a hill though!!

alan_driver

Original Poster:

1,281 posts

264 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

paulk said: the handbrake is pants
Paul


considered a handbrake conversion?



DavidP

371 posts

279 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

madasahatter said: What I was getting wrong when I first test drove a Cerb was that the revs rise so quickly (because of the light flywheel) that I would find myself backing off the gass a bit. They would then dive, and so as the clutch engaged, the engine would just die.



Absolutely right mad. The 4.5 revs as freely as a flippin moped. Which isn't bad for over 4,000 cubes of V8

DavidP

371 posts

279 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

alan_driver said:

paulk said: the handbrake is pants
Paul


considered a handbrake conversion?





Wassat then?

alan_driver

Original Poster:

1,281 posts

264 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

DavidP said:

alan_driver said:

paulk said: the handbrake is pants
Paul


considered a handbrake conversion?





Wassat then?




Im 99% sure its the cerbera that this applies to, i found it while doing a study into the cerb.
The hand brake operates some small drum brakes in the centre of the disc brakes (hence its crap). the normal brakes obviously are connected to the discs, but it is possiable, and some people have done this, to get the handbrake linked to the disc brakes.


exocet

690 posts

288 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

alan_driver said:

DavidP said:

alan_driver said:

paulk said: the handbrake is pants
Paul


considered a handbrake conversion?





Wassat then?




Im 99% sure its the cerbera that this applies to, i found it while doing a study into the cerb.
The hand brake operates some small drum brakes in the centre of the disc brakes (hence its crap). the normal brakes obviously are connected to the discs, but it is possiable, and some people have done this, to get the handbrake linked to the disc brakes.





Anyone have any idea how this is done? If it is easy, then why don't the factory send them out like that?

Jo

alan_driver

Original Poster:

1,281 posts

264 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
Anyone have any idea how this is done? If it is easy, then why don't the factory send them out like that?

Jo

dunno, but n handbrake is a cable mechanism, and the normal brakes are hydraulic, you cant use hydraulic for a handbrake as it will leak. I dont know what the conversion uses, there must be a reason why TVR do it like that.

madasahatter

374 posts

274 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
Is the reason for this because of the problems with putting brake pads onto a hot disc?

I think this picture shows the effect...



It was taken off Carroll Smith's paper on Warped Rotors.

I would guess this was the reason?

Steve

whatever

2,174 posts

277 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
As others have said, I think it's a combination of having a very quick throttle response (both on the way up and down the revs) and a light flywheel which "sucks" the revs out of the engine as the cluth is engaged. Well, that's how I like to phrase it, anyway (I know it doesn't literally suck...)

williamball

4,404 posts

289 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all
It doesn't take too long to master cluch and hill starts. I never really bother with the handbrake anyway, and just park it in gear. All these little quirks that require some skill to master are part of the appeal of the car.

'We choose to put a man in a Cerbera and return him safely in this decade, not because it is easy, but because it is hard....'

Different handbrake? You'll be wanting an auto-box next, a low fuel light, a lights-on buzzer, ABS and Traction Control next.

WB

whatever

2,174 posts

277 months

Thursday 5th December 2002
quotequote all

williamball said: a lights-on buzzer/quote]

Joking aside...

jamieheasman

823 posts

291 months

Friday 6th December 2002
quotequote all
The early Cerberas were well famed for the stalling problem. Later cars were modified to reduce the 'problem'. This improvement was to alter the clutch and software settings in the ECU.

Some of it comes down to Rover-V8-engined-TVR owners test driving or purchasing a Cerbera and expecting the same engine characteristics - WRONG! Not only does the Cerbera V8 sound like a big bike engine but you have to treat the throttle / clutch the same way.

Any slight lack of deftness with the throttle or clutch is wildly exaggerated due to the very light and balanced rotating mass of the engine - check out how much more engine braking an AJP8 has over a Rover. Also the flat-plane crank and camshaft profiles of these engines mean they produce less power lower down the rev-range. The answer is to give them a bit more throttle when taking-off and be more progressive with the clutch.

When I picked up my Cerbera I never stalled for weeks, but I saw one poor guy who picked up an ex-demo (hideous green, plastic interiored '96) Cerbera stall three times as he left the showroom, much to the amusement of the crowd gathered around.