Big trouble...
Discussion
Hi all...
Yesterday I was out for a ride and, while I'm changing from 3rd to 4th on a straight line while I'm accelerating, a big bang followed by a continuous clanck noise happened.
The engine was ok but gear changing was fifficult.
The clutch works fine.
Initially I thought was the gearbox.....but, after stopped the car, I reckon that you can change all the gear, even the retro, without problem.
So..
The clutch works
The gearbox works
The engine works
The car still run
BUT as soon as you go a big "clanck-clanck" noise start with some that seems some metal hitting some metal.
Occasionally some tugs to the transmission occurs also and, with speed, the gearbox seems harder to use.
As soon as I can I want to bring the car to my mechanic which, unfortunately, It's full of work.
I'm thinking that could be something on the trasmission after the gearbox....
A propshaft joint or something else...
So sad.....
Yesterday I was out for a ride and, while I'm changing from 3rd to 4th on a straight line while I'm accelerating, a big bang followed by a continuous clanck noise happened.
The engine was ok but gear changing was fifficult.
The clutch works fine.
Initially I thought was the gearbox.....but, after stopped the car, I reckon that you can change all the gear, even the retro, without problem.
So..
The clutch works
The gearbox works
The engine works
The car still run
BUT as soon as you go a big "clanck-clanck" noise start with some that seems some metal hitting some metal.
Occasionally some tugs to the transmission occurs also and, with speed, the gearbox seems harder to use.
As soon as I can I want to bring the car to my mechanic which, unfortunately, It's full of work.
I'm thinking that could be something on the trasmission after the gearbox....
A propshaft joint or something else...
So sad.....
Could maybe be snapped clutch fingers to me.
Compared to your other options, a cheap win!
If you can operate and change gear with engine off, but not when on, that can be it!
Although all the transmission stuff and pulls wouldn’t be consistent. Rear drive shaft are a known weak point too.
I’m sure it will be not be toooo expensive if engine runs and gearbox works!
Compared to your other options, a cheap win!
If you can operate and change gear with engine off, but not when on, that can be it!
Although all the transmission stuff and pulls wouldn’t be consistent. Rear drive shaft are a known weak point too.
I’m sure it will be not be toooo expensive if engine runs and gearbox works!
Andrea7 said:
I don't think it's a snapped clutch finger cause, if the dosen't move or if you go slow, you can change every gear easily.
You don't hear anything if you let the gearbox in neutral and rise rpm also...
The differential could be a good idea but dosen't seem to change anything when you turn and al the thumps and noise seems to came from the gearbox area
You don't hear anything if you let the gearbox in neutral and rise rpm also...
The differential could be a good idea but dosen't seem to change anything when you turn and al the thumps and noise seems to came from the gearbox area
Sound anything like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHu7xGz-5a0
Might be the pinion rather than the diff ring gear itself.
Might be the pinion rather than the diff ring gear itself.
It's the gearbox.
I wanna cry.... 😭
Now.....three things I would like to know:
1: Is it possible to put off the gearbox without the engine
2: What car fit the same T5 of the Cerbera
3: What are my options in price order fr9 low to high
Best regards to everyone could or want help me....
I wanna cry.... 😭
Now.....three things I would like to know:
1: Is it possible to put off the gearbox without the engine
2: What car fit the same T5 of the Cerbera
3: What are my options in price order fr9 low to high
Best regards to everyone could or want help me....
ebay has a few. Range from about £900 to £1750. You're taking a risk though as they could be just as buggered as yours.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
fatbutt said:
ebay has a few. Range from about £900 to £1750. You're taking a risk though as they could be just as buggered as yours.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
Just to add: I think there are three different shift positions for the various car options? So worth being explicit about which car it's for.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
The gearbox will come out without taking the engine out. It is a bit of a game but I have done it on axle stands before.
I have also rebuilt two of these gearboxes and they aren't too complicated to do. It would be interesting to see what is broken inside. There are a few people that will repair them. Readman racing for one.
I've looked at other sources of this box and never been convinced that any others would be a suitable swap. The cheapest I found was in a Ssangyong Rexton but the ratios were nothing like useful...
I have also rebuilt two of these gearboxes and they aren't too complicated to do. It would be interesting to see what is broken inside. There are a few people that will repair them. Readman racing for one.
I've looked at other sources of this box and never been convinced that any others would be a suitable swap. The cheapest I found was in a Ssangyong Rexton but the ratios were nothing like useful...
MarkwG said:
fatbutt said:
ebay has a few. Range from about £900 to £1750. You're taking a risk though as they could be just as buggered as yours.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
Just to add: I think there are three different shift positions for the various car options? So worth being explicit about which car it's for.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/395600260803?var=0&...
I'd go for a refurb'd one from a real supplier e.g. https://roadcraftuk.co.uk/product/tremec-t5-transm...
The Tremec T5 is a generic gearbox fitted to all sorts of cars: https://www.tremec.com/menu.php?m=102
"T-5 has been installed as original equipment in a variety of vehicles, from pick-up trucks and SUV's to the fun to drive 5.0 Mustang"
You need a T5 "WC" (World Class) box with a 23 Spline Input Shaft.
Jimm218 said:
The gearbox will come out without taking the engine out. It is a bit of a game but I have done it on axle stands before.
I have also rebuilt two of these gearboxes and they aren't too complicated to do. It would be interesting to see what is broken inside. There are a few people that will repair them. Readman racing for one.
I've looked at other sources of this box and never been convinced that any others would be a suitable swap. The cheapest I found was in a Ssangyong Rexton but the ratios were nothing like useful...
Thanks a lot to all.I have also rebuilt two of these gearboxes and they aren't too complicated to do. It would be interesting to see what is broken inside. There are a few people that will repair them. Readman racing for one.
I've looked at other sources of this box and never been convinced that any others would be a suitable swap. The cheapest I found was in a Ssangyong Rexton but the ratios were nothing like useful...
I think I'll proceed by takibg away the gearbox.
Then, after I'll see what it's wrong, I'll decide if repair mine or exchange it with an overhaul unit.
Could you please give me any advice/tips on how to take out the gearbox?
Regards
MadMark (RIP) did an excellent guide to changing the clutch, which obviously comprises gearbox removal.
Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
FarmyardPants said:
MadMark (RIP) did an excellent guide to changing the clutch, which obviously comprises gearbox removal.
Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
Thanks a lot but unfortunately none of those links work.... Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
Zen, and the art of Cerbera maintenance.
What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards the read of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards the read of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
notaping said:
Zen, and the art of Cerbera maintenance.
What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards thmoread of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
Thanks A LOT!What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards thmoread of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
Really.....
You are all so helpful...
Really hope that the speed six gives a little bit of room more than the AJP.....
Really everything will be ok....
P. S.
I still can't believe the gearbox broke....
This is the first time I experience a gearbox tbat sounds like a broken transmission and with gears still working...
Yet it seems to be so...
I don't understand what could have broken...
notaping said:
Zen, and the art of Cerbera maintenance.
What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards the read of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
“ Zen and the art of Cerbera maintenance” What you need to accept is that the thing you want to work on lies behind a hunderd other unrelated things that need to be removed.
1. Remove chassis plate
2. Remove exhaust centres.
3. Drain gearbox oil.
4. Remove heat shield above exhaust (drill out pop rivets to chassis)
5. Remove prop shaft. (you might need to remove rear roll bar to get prop shaft or exhaust off)
Optional::
Remove exhaust headers.
I know some people leave the headers on and lever them apart to squeeze the gearbox out, but since the headers suffer from stress fractures near the port joints - I don't like this option and have always removed them before taking out the gearbox.
a. Remove air boxes.
b. After the centre section of the exhaust is removed - undo one of the front engine mounts and tilt the engine using a hydraulic jack, Then remove the header from that side. You need to tilt the engine to gain clearance to remove the header. Comes out from the top through the engine bay. Re-attach engine mount.
c. Repeat on the other side.
d. Oh! - for the driver side I think you also need to disengage the steering rod to get enough lift on the engine mount.
6. With headers removed - support the rear of the gearbox (hydraulic jack) and undo the gearbox mount.
7. Put some blocks of wood, or other solid supports below the rear of the engine sump. Lower the rear of the engine onto the blocks - slowly. It doesn't need to come down too much.
8. Reach above the gear box and undo the bolts securing the gearlever into the box. Fours bolts on a rectangulat plate. I think they are M12? Maybe M13? You don't want to pull the gear lever out of the cab.
9. With the rear of the engine supported on blocks of wood or something solid - support the gear box near centre with trolley jack and undo from bell housing. Leave the bell housing attached to the engine. This means you don't disturb the hydraulics for the clutch.
10. When the gearbox bolts are undone - pull the trolley jack towards the read of the car while supporting the gearbox - disengaging the input shaft, and then lower to the ground.
Anything I've forgotten - anyone?
It seems like a lot of work, but it's really just a large number of small easy tasks. Takes time, is awkward, but can be done in 1 day if you keep at it.
I've performed this numerous times lying on the gravel at the side of the house. The biggest challenge is mental. My advice - accept it. It's really not that hard - just really, really annoying!
When you get really angry and annoyed - walk away. Have a coffee and a biscuit. It's going to happen
Hopefully when you open the box you'll find it's not as bad as imagination makes out. Maybe just an input shaft bearing.
Good luck
G.
That’s such good advice.
All TVR require this kind of approach.
Years ago I wanted to remove the manifolds on my Chim and read up on how difficult it could be and often taking two hours each side so I planned for at least three hours.
It then felt very rewarding when I’d got both off in three.
Patience is always required and never rushing or expecting things to go easily or putting time limits on it as that creates a bad mental attitude and nearly always leads to breaking something simply by not taking your time.
Your words take me back 30 years to a time I worked with an ex RAF engineer who helped me rebuild a Jag XJ6 and he heard me huffing and puffing and calmly exclaimed, nothings that difficult on these old Jags but you might have to remove many items simply to get at the part you need to replace which changed my perspective and I never looked back.
Generally that attitude has served me well and though many things on TVR can frustrate I’ve always enjoyed working on my car because less haste normally results in more speed.
The only time I ignored that advice was when I needed to remove seat belt bolts into my outriggers…..
Sheared a bolt off because I wasn’t patient, got the bolt moving easily enough though very stiff and just started winding it out to fast which heated the bolt and snapped it like a twig.
Noticed the head of the bolt was very hot and cursed myself remembering that old man’s words.
It took many hours to finally drill out the remainder of the bolt!
Edited by BritishTvr450 on Saturday 24th August 07:27
Andrea7 said:
FarmyardPants said:
MadMark (RIP) did an excellent guide to changing the clutch, which obviously comprises gearbox removal.
Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
Thanks a lot but unfortunately none of those links work.... Dave (Byker28i) has the links towards the end of this thread: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It is doable with the car on on axle stands, not much fun though.
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