Looking for Documents / Datasheets / 2001 AJP 4.5

[Staubkappe]

I am from germany and found a nice TVR located in Luxemburg which i would like to buy if everything turns out to be fine.
However i can't find any documents regarding the car, especially the emissions-class (EU Norm) or the noise level in db. Thus the TÜV does not want to approve the vehicle, thus zeroin my chances for a registration. The papers from Luxemburg and the V5 from the UK did not contain those information. It was registered from 01-05 in the UK and from 05 till today in Luxemburg.

Does anyone of you have a 2001 4.5 or know where i can find any registration relevant documents for it? Even a registration from a UK one would help i guess. The registration should have Euro 3 conformity.

Thanks in advance for any hint or tips.

Edited by Staubkappe on Friday 20th October 16:34

[LLantrisant]

UK reg. documents do not state any type of Emmission Class, neiter any noise levels....as the car comes with the british V5 you can check yoursevles.

TVR NEVER issued any official COC Documents...as it was NOT mandatory for a small-volume car producer.

this said: during a certain period a homepage exists (tvrmotors.eu) were you could pay 250pound and they issued you a COC-Document. the homepage conveyed the character of an official site from the manufacturer's factory, but it was not related to the factory (as it was already closed when this page was brought online)...i think it was hosted in Austria.

those docs were all FALSE, but interestingwise the authorities (German TÜV) accepted them.

this says a lot about german-bureaucracy: when you bring them the documents they are craving for, they forget to check the authenticity of the whole thing out of sheer delight. the main thing is: that they got the piece of paper they wanted.


by the way: as far as i remember with a reg-date of 2001 the car would be subject to Euro3 emission Classification.
the AJP8 Engine never fullfilled this classification

Edited by LLantrisant on Saturday 21st October 10:34

[Granturadriver]

There is still the example copy on the TVR Motors homepage under ownership/importing and exporting a TVR
with some data to noise and emissions.
[url|[/url]

You find the copy of a S6 Cerbera here

https://www.tvr.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-...


No one knows if they still issue these COC and include any helpful data.

[LLantrisant]

https://www.tvr.co.uk/ownership/importing-a-tvr

here is the COC request form. 250pound and a copy of the v5c is necessary.

as said: those COC´s are not "official"

Edited by LLantrisant on Sunday 22 October 09:54

[Mr Cerbera]

Hi Dusty

I imported my 4.5 into Luxembourg in 2005 (It is a Sept '01).

It took me 6 months of visiting the technical centre and showing a new document every time (one of which was a 'Letter of Manufature' from TVR) before I was eventually allowed to register the vehicle.

My current registration document makes no mention of the details that your TUV requires. Every year I take my road certificate test, all the parameters are tested, so I can only recommend that you repeat your visits to show them that you are only a lonely, desperate individual and not someone who wants to start an imporataion business.

Best of Luck,


PJ

(I thought that I had told you this all before ? )

[LLantrisant]

germany is a complete different story.....if you check german reg-documents even the tyres and wheel dimensions are listed...and if you have fitted different coilovers than the ones from the factory, in the ammendment of the reg-documents they will note the new ride-height, the visible thread from the coilover, the color and poundage of the coils, the brand-name of the coil-over manufacturer...if you fit a non-original steering wheel, the paperwork will even state the diameter and brand of the steering-wheel....etc....

this said: officially all those "aftermarket" components even need a type-approval for the car.....with such a niche-ca like the TVR some testers may do some exemptions....but officially, non-type approved components are a no-go.

[Staubkappe]

Granturadriver said:

There is still the example copy on the TVR Motors homepage under ownership/importing and exporting a TVR
with some data to noise and emissions.
[url|[/url]

You find the copy of a S6 Cerbera here

https://www.tvr.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-...


No one knows if they still issue these COC and include any helpful data.

I have heard from two german sources those documents dont have the needed Info but I stil requested one for a 2011 4.5 cerb.Haven't got an answer yet sadly.

Mr Cerbera said:

Hi Dusty

I imported my 4.5 into Luxembourg in 2005 (It is a Sept '01).

It took me 6 months of visiting the technical centre and showing a new document every time (one of which was a 'Letter of Manufature' from TVR) before I was eventually allowed to register the vehicle.

My current registration document makes no mention of the details that your TUV requires. Every year I take my road certificate test, all the parameters are tested, so I can only recommend that you repeat your visits to show them that you are only a lonely, desperate individual and not someone who wants to start an imporataion business.

Best of Luck,


PJ

(I thought that I had told you this all before ? )

Sounds pretty tough, i will try my best to get everything cleared up BEFORE i buy the car. I am too afraid of never getting a registration otherwise, since germany is a hellhole of bureaucracy and even renowned sources told me to stick to a already registered TVR. There even is one federal state which does not let you register any TVR due to someone sitting at the top and just not wating to sign those forms.

What kind of documents did you bring with you oce the course of time?

Edited by Staubkappe on Monday 23 October 17:47

[Granturadriver]

LLantrisant said:

germany is a complete different story.....if you check german reg-documents even the tyres and wheel dimensions are listed...and if you have fitted different coilovers than the ones from the factory, in the ammendment of the reg-documents they will note the new ride-height, the visible thread from the coilover, the color and poundage of the coils, the brand-name of the coil-over manufacturer...if you fit a non-original steering wheel, the paperwork will even state the diameter and brand of the steering-wheel....etc....

this said: officially all those "aftermarket" components even need a type-approval for the car.....with such a niche-ca like the TVR some testers may do some exemptions....but officially, non-type approved components are a no-go.

Hmmm. There are some myths that are not quite the truth. Neither are all these data in the German vehicle documents, nor is it impossible to install aftermarket parts. And with cars like TVR, it's difficult to define a definitive factory condition anyway.

[ephemera]

Sorry to hear the bureaucratic paperwork that you have to go through to enjoy a Cerbera in Germany, best of luck, it is worth it!
I have a Cerb V8 available in The Netherlands that was previously registered in Germany, would that ease the registration process?

[Mr Cerbera]

Staubkappe said:

Sounds pretty tough, i will try my best to get everything cleared up BEFORE i buy the car. I am too afraid of never getting a registration otherwise, since germany is a hellhole of bureaucracy and even renowned sources told me to stick to a already registered TVR. There even is one federal state which does not let you register any TVR due to someone sitting at the top and just not wating to sign those forms.

What kind of documents did you bring with you oce the course of time?

Hello again

The documents that I had to supply for registration in Lux were:-

01) The Vehicle Registration Document (V5)

02) The Ministry of Transport Road worthiness Certificate (MOT)

03) A letter from TVR stating that my chassis (Number printed on letter) was constructed with the Government British National Type Approval Certificate

04) A letter from TVR stating that the Garage I had bought the car from were official dealers for the marque.

05) A Transfer History Document (with only the details of the previous owner on it - There had been three others)

06) The UK Registration Certificate below, which, under subsections Y.1 & V.4 had some indicators of emmisions.

Hope this helps

[LLantrisant]

Lux and Germany are totally different....thats the problem


and a reg-date of 2001 is subject to Euro3 emmission class.....as far as i remember the AJP8 does not comply with it. (Euro2 was max)

[Mr Cerbera]

LLantrisant said:

Lux and Germany are totally different....thats the problem

and a reg-date of 2001 is subject to Euro3 emmission class.....as far as i remember the AJP8 does not comply with it. (Euro2 was max)

OK - Really confused now !

Euro-3 was introduced to cover cars registered after Jan 2001 so have I just been incredibly lucky ?

If I was, then how come all the AJP8 Cerbs registered Jan 2001 onwards made it onto the roads ?



p.s. or is it all to do with 'small manufacturer' loopholes ?

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Wednesday 25th October 13:00

[MarkwG]

Mr Cerbera said:

LLantrisant said:

Lux and Germany are totally different....thats the problem

and a reg-date of 2001 is subject to Euro3 emmission class.....as far as i remember the AJP8 does not comply with it. (Euro2 was max)

OK - Really confused now !

Euro-3 was introduced to cover cars registered after Jan 2001 so have I just been incredibly lucky ?

If I was, then how come all the AJP8 Cerbs registered Jan 2001 onwards made it onto the roads ?



p.s. or is it all to do with 'small manufacturer' loopholes ?

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Wednesday 25th October 13:00

Might be a red herring, but applied for & received a Crit'air sticker for mine, a 52 reg 4.2 - came back as Crit'air 3 compliant, which is in the Euro 2/3 petrol grouping.

https://www.eplaque.fr/en/crit-air-emissions-stick...

[Staubkappe]

Mr Cerbera said:

OK - Really confused now !

Euro-3 was introduced to cover cars registered after Jan 2001 so have I just been incredibly lucky ?

If I was, then how come all the AJP8 Cerbs registered Jan 2001 onwards made it onto the roads ?



p.s. or is it all to do with 'small manufacturer' loopholes ?

As far as i can tell you have been very lucky
There are just very few 2001 Cerberas in germany and most of them have been either here for a long time (when no one paid attention) or got them
imported through another EU country where they had a emissions standard that was translated to Euro 3. However in general it seems like those options don't exist anymore.

Edited by Mr Cerbera on Wednesday 25th October 13:00

[LLantrisant]

MarkwG said:

Might be a red herring, but applied for & received a Crit'air sticker for mine, a 52 reg 4.2 - came back as Crit'air 3 compliant, which is in the Euro 2/3 petrol grouping.

https://www.eplaque.fr/en/crit-air-emissions-stick...

as you stating yourselves: your crit´air sticker is for cars which fullfill euro 2 or euro 3

this has NOTHING to do with the emmission classification dates :

Launch date --> New vehicles(first registration) --> 01.01.2001 -->EURO3
01.01.2005 -->Euro4

there might be exemptions done in Uk in the past for small volume manufacturers like TVR, and there migt be addtional examptions for UK-homologated cars, even UK was member of the EU this time. for example: kitcars can be homologated in UK up to today without fullfilling the Emmission Classification. The Kit must "just" comply to the Emmission class of the manufacturing date of the engine. this was and is unique throughout the complete EU. therefore its quite impossible to get a recent UK Kitcar re-homologated in the EU (and this was already valid pre-brexit). and even diffeent rules for q-platedkitcars: Latest q-plated Kitcars get tested at the engine year levels now. Usually written on the v5. Only if no limits quoted on the v5, it gets visual smoke test, only.

[Staubkappe]

ephemera said:

Sorry to hear the bureaucratic paperwork that you have to go through to enjoy a Cerbera in Germany, best of luck, it is worth it!
I have a Cerb V8 available in The Netherlands that was previously registered in Germany, would that ease the registration process?

If you have the old documents it would be interesting to know when it was first registered and which Euro Norm it had in germany

[ephemera]

I checked, it says 1997 and Euro 2 on the German registration papers. You can PM me for more details.

[LLantrisant]

this doesnot help him, as his car (or lets better say: the car he wants to buy) is a 2001 Model, therefore subject to Euro3, and it is fact that the AJP v8 enigne was not developped with Euro3 rules in mind.

i mean: why make things complicate when there are lots of other Cerberas available on the market with less hazzle getting them re-homologated in Germany?

and a quick web-search turned out that there are at least 3 or 4 Cerberas in Germany for sale with German Homologation.

by the way: the Speed6 engine would comply with the Euro3 rules.

Edited by LLantrisant on Sunday 29th October 11:04

[Staubkappe]

Yes there a few ones in germany, however due to the emissions only "pre-facelift" models.
I found a very nice blue '99 4.5 in great condition, chatted with the owner, inspected the car and will go for a test drive within the next weeks. It may be a pre-facelift but if everything else checks out, thats my way to go. And somehow i start to like the old headlights with the blue paint color

[Mr Cerbera]

Staubkappe said:

"And somehow i start to like the old headlights"

I love an owner who is adaptable