Cerbera as a reference point

[ukkid35]

Play from 20:50 if it starts from the beginning

[DuncanM]

Nice that he respects the Cerbera, hate the old cliché of TVRs not being good handling cars.

I think the AJP8/6 engined cars are very special indeed, worth way more than current markets suggest, not that I'm considering selling.

I'll try and watch the whole vid, love the Noble M600.

[gruffalo]

DuncanM said:

Nice that he respects the Cerbera, hate the old cliché of TVRs not being good handling cars.

I think the AJP8/6 engined cars are very special indeed, worth way more than current markets suggest, not that I'm considering selling.

I'll try and watch the whole vid, love the Noble M600.

Completely agree!

The Cerbera need respect but drive it properly and it is a great car for making rapid progress in.

Sl long as it's not raining, then things can get interesting.

[julian64]

I think the title is an oxymoron.

You can't use the cerbera as a reference point because pretty much of all the car types I have ever driven, the cerbera is the one when you have no idea how the drive is going to go when you get in one you aren't used to.

There is such an incredible range of handling experiences, and that is completely regardless as to whether they've had recent geometry done or servicing.

I've driven a cerbera which I thought was simply too dangerous to drive and yet the owner was very happy with it. I've driven Cerberas where you had to hold both hands o nteh wheel at all times and wrestle it around corners making continual corrections, I've been in Cerbs where you could use two fingers on the wheel and take your hands off completely while going down a straight.

I've done tracking on Cerbs where it looked way out to me with front toe out and four wheel weighting that made it look like a bicycle but the owner was happy with the setup, and to be honest it felt okay when driving. Cerbs where everything is spot on but it still didn't feel right.

I think Cerbs have two big problems. One is that however you set them up, after driving a relatively small amount the settings seem to be out again. and to be honest the engine and tyre ability seem a little beyond the frame.

I quite enjoy that in the car because I can always be fettling. But is it quite annoying sometimes when I thin kthe car is spot on and then a few weeks later I'm finding fault again with how its driving

[ukkid35]

julian64 said:

There is such an incredible range of handling experiences, and that is completely regardless as to whether they've had recent geometry done or servicing.

I agree with most of what you said, however in my experience the handling is down to four things

1. Suspension Bushes
2. Geometry (inc ride height)
3. Shocks
4. Tyres

My car was a basket case when I bought it, and it has taken a very long time for me to get it to a point where I completely trust it (in the dry)

The easy bit, cost notwithstanding, is the parts you can simply swap: tyres and shocks

The more difficult part is ensuring the bushes are still good, and getting the set up correct

I don't find it goes off though, even though my car gets tracked, unless the bushes start to fail

I've replaced bushes at the front twice in the space of a few years, the rear doesn't suffer from wear quite so much

[DuncanM]

julian64 said:

I think the title is an oxymoron.

You can't use the cerbera as a reference point because pretty much of all the car types I have ever driven, the cerbera is the one when you have no idea how the drive is going to go when you get in one you aren't used to.

There is such an incredible range of handling experiences, and that is completely regardless as to whether they've had recent geometry done or servicing.

I've driven a cerbera which I thought was simply too dangerous to drive and yet the owner was very happy with it. I've driven Cerberas where you had to hold both hands o nteh wheel at all times and wrestle it around corners making continual corrections, I've been in Cerbs where you could use two fingers on the wheel and take your hands off completely while going down a straight.

I've done tracking on Cerbs where it looked way out to me with front toe out and four wheel weighting that made it look like a bicycle but the owner was happy with the setup, and to be honest it felt okay when driving. Cerbs where everything is spot on but it still didn't feel right.

I think Cerbs have two big problems. One is that however you set them up, after driving a relatively small amount the settings seem to be out again. and to be honest the engine and tyre ability seem a little beyond the frame.

I quite enjoy that in the car because I can always be fettling. But is it quite annoying sometimes when I thin kthe car is spot on and then a few weeks later I'm finding fault again with how its driving

I've read your comments before, and have never really understood how this can be true regarding setting up the car?

I used my GT86 as a benchmark when playing about with my car, have it pretty close, '86 is still the more lairy of the two, and that's a common production coupe with 200bhp.

Stiff springs (600/600) and decent dampers, my Cerbera is a delight to drive.

[julian64]

DuncanM said:

julian64 said:

I think the title is an oxymoron.

You can't use the cerbera as a reference point because pretty much of all the car types I have ever driven, the cerbera is the one when you have no idea how the drive is going to go when you get in one you aren't used to.

There is such an incredible range of handling experiences, and that is completely regardless as to whether they've had recent geometry done or servicing.

I've driven a cerbera which I thought was simply too dangerous to drive and yet the owner was very happy with it. I've driven Cerberas where you had to hold both hands o nteh wheel at all times and wrestle it around corners making continual corrections, I've been in Cerbs where you could use two fingers on the wheel and take your hands off completely while going down a straight.

I've done tracking on Cerbs where it looked way out to me with front toe out and four wheel weighting that made it look like a bicycle but the owner was happy with the setup, and to be honest it felt okay when driving. Cerbs where everything is spot on but it still didn't feel right.

I think Cerbs have two big problems. One is that however you set them up, after driving a relatively small amount the settings seem to be out again. and to be honest the engine and tyre ability seem a little beyond the frame.

I quite enjoy that in the car because I can always be fettling. But is it quite annoying sometimes when I thin kthe car is spot on and then a few weeks later I'm finding fault again with how its driving

I've read your comments before, and have never really understood how this can be true regarding setting up the car?

I used my GT86 as a benchmark when playing about with my car, have it pretty close, '86 is still the more lairy of the two, and that's a common production coupe with 200bhp.

Stiff springs (600/600) and decent dampers, my Cerbera is a delight to drive.

I don't really understand them either TBH. I have three kit cars the cerb, two normal BMWs, and a couple of motorcycles. I've only ever done setup on the others once and when checked, even after a year or two, seemingly nothing has moved.

Not only on my cerb, but when I've done others they are way out even if its recently been checked. For some time I thought the geometry of the cerb was a bit funny in the way it hit bumps hard on the road and was never really possible to dial out all of the bump steer issues and wondered if that were the cause, possible also because I have quite hard springs on it with nitrons.
But again to be honest I don't really know. Its not that much of a problem for me as the cerb goes on the ramp every mot, gets the cats changed back to normal. Passes the MOT, then goes back up on the ramp. Jools connected pipes go on, and then the geometry gets checked and done. The car probably does about 2K per year on high days and sunny days so I don't think its much of a problem for me. When I used to use it as a daily I was more annoyed with it.

[Byker28i]

ukkid35 said:

julian64 said:

There is such an incredible range of handling experiences, and that is completely regardless as to whether they've had recent geometry done or servicing.

I agree with most of what you said, however in my experience the handling is down to four things

1. Suspension Bushes
2. Geometry (inc ride height)
3. Shocks
4. Tyres

My car was a basket case when I bought it, and it has taken a very long time for me to get it to a point where I completely trust it (in the dry)

The easy bit, cost notwithstanding, is the parts you can simply swap: tyres and shocks

The more difficult part is ensuring the bushes are still good, and getting the set up correct

I don't find it goes off though, even though my car gets tracked, unless the bushes start to fail

I've replaced bushes at the front twice in the space of a few years, the rear doesn't suffer from wear quite so much

Can I add to that list - wear in the triangular plastic bush in the steering column, giving slop so you have movement in the column before anything happens.

[ukkid35]

There are other steering components that can wear as well, such as the UJs, and of course the rack itself

The tricky one is where the lower UJ attaches to the pinion splines, because the flat where the bolt fits is too long (not too deep), this means that the UJ does not clamp on the entire splined shaft, but only on part of the shaft

There is probably a lot of variation between cars, as I expect this issue only affects some racks

[julian64]

Helpful comments from both, thanks, but I wasn't sure I'm looking for a culprit

If it was worn bushes or slop in the geometry I haven't found it on general checking. Added to which if it was there it would surely be a case of never being satisfied with the car handle as you couldn't actually set any geometry, whereas my problem with the car is that it drives perfectly after I've done the geometry and only starts to go out of kilter about a month or so later.

I suspect somethings moving. I guess what I should do is take photos of all the setup points after doign it and then recheck in a few months to try and spot if its the bolts not holding for some reason or something else.

Obviously I need to look harder as it seems noone else is having the problem.

I thought it was a feature of Cerbs due to the experience noted above of checking others cars.

[Ice_blue_tvr]

Nice to see someone give their own opinion on a TVR and not regurgitating some clarksonism.

Not sure I'd agree though

On a related note though, the M600 has to be one of my all time favourites. Put that alongside a pantera and I would die a happy man. The yamaha powerplant sounds exactly the way I'd want a supercar to sound, it has that old school racecar noise.

Edited by Ice_blue_tvr on Friday 14th July 09:04

[ukkid35]

Ice_blue_tvr said:

On a related note though, the M600 has to be one of my all time favourites.

I've had PAX laps at Spa in a couple of M12, most recently last summer



This one did a four wheel drift on the crest after Eau Rouge, spectacular!

However l lost interest in the M600 once I realised it was a six figure car, with not even the faintest hope I might own one eventually

[Ice_blue_tvr]

Ha yeah I remember having a conversation with a TVR servicing garage that were also selling Nobles, and even they weren't convinced people would buy M600s given the price tag and competition.

But I guess people buy Nobles, Lotus' and TVRs because they want something a little different.

[mrniceguy351]

julian64 said:

.

, I've been in Cerbs where you could use two fingers on the wheel and take your hands off completely while going down a straight.

I set mine up with close to 5 deg of castor and it's like that.

Clutch slave let go before I got a chance to see how it goes round the bends. I suspect I haven't improved its cornering prowess!

[Jhonno]

I have to say the urban myth that a Cerb doesn't handle is rubbish. Set them up properly, get rid of the st Spiders and run some light 17's and they are a delight. I've never once felt the Cerb handling was poor, and that is comparing to the raft of BMW's I also have/do own.

[ukkid35]

It was interesting to see what Jack at Number27 had to say about the Tuscan's handling in the video he released yesterday

I suggested to him that the Tuscan is probably less stable than the Cerb because of the wheelbase, even so it doesn't sound like it was set up properly

[Byker28i]

Jhonno said:

I have to say the urban myth that a Cerb doesn't handle is rubbish. Set them up properly, get rid of the st Spiders and run some light 17's and they are a delight. I've never once felt the Cerb handling was poor, and that is comparing to the raft of BMW's I also have/do own.

You can take your hand off the wheel at 190mph and take a photo of the speedo...

[Jhonno]

Byker28i said:

Jhonno said:

I have to say the urban myth that a Cerb doesn't handle is rubbish. Set them up properly, get rid of the st Spiders and run some light 17's and they are a delight. I've never once felt the Cerb handling was poor, and that is comparing to the raft of BMW's I also have/do own.

You can take your hand off the wheel at 190mph and take a photo of the speedo...

I mean I could do it at 140mph, which is the fastest I've been in it..

[julian64]

Jhonno said:

Byker28i said:

Jhonno said:

I have to say the urban myth that a Cerb doesn't handle is rubbish. Set them up properly, get rid of the st Spiders and run some light 17's and they are a delight. I've never once felt the Cerb handling was poor, and that is comparing to the raft of BMW's I also have/do own.

You can take your hand off the wheel at 190mph and take a photo of the speedo...

I mean I could do it at 140mph, which is the fastest I've been in it..

ooooooohhhhhh I smell another thread.. I beat you as my cerb has done 154!

[Jhonno]

julian64 said:

Jhonno said:

Byker28i said:

Jhonno said:

I have to say the urban myth that a Cerb doesn't handle is rubbish. Set them up properly, get rid of the st Spiders and run some light 17's and they are a delight. I've never once felt the Cerb handling was poor, and that is comparing to the raft of BMW's I also have/do own.

You can take your hand off the wheel at 190mph and take a photo of the speedo...

I mean I could do it at 140mph, which is the fastest I've been in it..

ooooooohhhhhh I smell another thread.. I beat you as my cerb has done 154!