Just how quick are they?
Discussion
I know this debate has raged forever - especially the my dads bigger than your dad arguments with 996TTs and F360s etc - BUT, at Goodwood last week I was absolutely amazed to post identical unofficial lap times to a Westfield XTR2. I absolutely promise that I was not pushing my luck in the corners - although obviously I was taking a line and, of course, it may be that the westy driver didn't know what he was doing. 2 up we hit an indicated 150 at the end of Lavant and we were pulling away from the Westy convincingly.
I have never thought of my Cerby being that frantically fast. I mean fast on the road yeah but not mind blowingly race track fast. It might seem strange but I belong to the realist school of don't believe what the manufacturers hype tells you.
Even so, i have had to recalibrate my views. Can anyone verify my experience with a similar subjective example or was it just a one off quirk?
PS. Still grinning!
I have never thought of my Cerby being that frantically fast. I mean fast on the road yeah but not mind blowingly race track fast. It might seem strange but I belong to the realist school of don't believe what the manufacturers hype tells you.
Even so, i have had to recalibrate my views. Can anyone verify my experience with a similar subjective example or was it just a one off quirk?
PS. Still grinning!
Goodwood is a high speed and long track and so should suit your Cerby. Expect the Westy to win over a shorter (say 1.3mile) more twisty track.
I'm going to Goodwood next month along with a mate in his Caterham, so I'm hoping I have the legs on him. The last track day I did I was faster than all but the more extreme Lotus7esque cars. Most of them had me on the corners but none had the top end punch of my 500.
I'm going to Goodwood next month along with a mate in his Caterham, so I'm hoping I have the legs on him. The last track day I did I was faster than all but the more extreme Lotus7esque cars. Most of them had me on the corners but none had the top end punch of my 500.
you are right about Goodwood being a fast track. I only did the one session in the Cerb and spent the rest of the day hooning around in my caterham which is, of course, much, much quicker thru the twisty bits but 5 seconds a lap slower 'cos its v-maxed for most of the lap (40mph differential on Lavant).
Even so, I am still impressed with the Cerby. Sheer grunt over agility!
Even so, I am still impressed with the Cerby. Sheer grunt over agility!
It has been suggested by a spectator that a Cerbera 4.5 on slicks recently lapped Goodwood in 1m 30s. This represents an average just in excess of 95 mph.
As previously reported an indicated 150mph is easily possible on the Lavant straight. I can add that on a slick shod Cerbera the speedo can show 140mph through the kink after Madgwick at Fordwater before braking for the right hander that leads to St Mary's. All without any sideways action!
As previously reported an indicated 150mph is easily possible on the Lavant straight. I can add that on a slick shod Cerbera the speedo can show 140mph through the kink after Madgwick at Fordwater before braking for the right hander that leads to St Mary's. All without any sideways action!
Danny
Just standard 17 inch items, I bought a second set. The Cerbera can carry four 17 inch wheels/tyres, wrapped in cotton T bags to preserve the leather, in the car with me. Even took them to Spa.
Initially bought eight new Michelin slicks (cheap) from a chap who was changing his wheel size in a race series. These were 10 inches wide and I use them all round the car. Now I have a dozen part used BF Goodrich, same maker different brand. These again came from a touring car series - one race old but they last at least 4 track days for me.
They take just a lap or two on a short circuit to get warm. They do not mind a bit of damp but throw the teddy out if there is any visible standing water.
Took Joolz round Donington one evening. He seemed to approve. On a dry track day I never want to drive on road tyres again. However without Martin Short's suspension magic or something similar, it would be difficult to get the best out of the extra grip from slicks.
I also have to thank Joolz for getting the Cerbera onto Goodwood in the first place. With his intermediate silencer modification fitted it showed just 92db on their meter instead of a previously measured 105db. "The quietest TVR we have seen" said the man with the meter.
Just standard 17 inch items, I bought a second set. The Cerbera can carry four 17 inch wheels/tyres, wrapped in cotton T bags to preserve the leather, in the car with me. Even took them to Spa.
Initially bought eight new Michelin slicks (cheap) from a chap who was changing his wheel size in a race series. These were 10 inches wide and I use them all round the car. Now I have a dozen part used BF Goodrich, same maker different brand. These again came from a touring car series - one race old but they last at least 4 track days for me.
They take just a lap or two on a short circuit to get warm. They do not mind a bit of damp but throw the teddy out if there is any visible standing water.
Took Joolz round Donington one evening. He seemed to approve. On a dry track day I never want to drive on road tyres again. However without Martin Short's suspension magic or something similar, it would be difficult to get the best out of the extra grip from slicks.
I also have to thank Joolz for getting the Cerbera onto Goodwood in the first place. With his intermediate silencer modification fitted it showed just 92db on their meter instead of a previously measured 105db. "The quietest TVR we have seen" said the man with the meter.
....but Dave & Danny, you're not the "average Joe" driver either are you !
I'm surprised the Westy was that comprehensively out-gunned. Assuming a Radical and it are comparable - it should be GT class quick...the letter in this month's EVo from the guy with the ex-race Radical proposal sounds more and more interesting.
I'm surprised the Westy was that comprehensively out-gunned. Assuming a Radical and it are comparable - it should be GT class quick...the letter in this month's EVo from the guy with the ex-race Radical proposal sounds more and more interesting.
Couple of quick points.. please correct me if I am wrong but the right hander before StMarys IS Fordwater isn't it.. can take it flat out in the caterham (not even a lift) but no way could you do that in a road shod Cerbera - it was breaking sideways on the preceding right hand kink (which you definitely take flat)
However, on slicks, it must be awesome.. respect.
Danny - what suspension mods. I have got to do something to stop it going all floaty at the back. Its easy enough to control but a little bit disappointing in terms of outright grip.
The gold and black Westfield XTR2 owned and run by Malcolm Veary (Land & Leisure track days) in question is definitely (by his own admission) not as fast as the Radicals AND it clearly depends on the driver. On the day the Radicals were just incredible.
As for 1.29 on slicks - yep, I can see that if you either know what you are doing or drive like a complete loony (or both). Somebody was claiming 1.28 in a Escort Cossie BUT I don't believe it for a millisecond. A friend was out at the same time in his Scooby and reckoned the Cossie was gaining about 100yds per lap. The Scooby was doing 1.50 somethings so draw your own conclusions about the degree of bravado.
Second biggest grin of the day for me was being driven by a well known racer/journo/car dealer in his beloved 2.8i Capri and blowing a 996 TT into the weeds. An amazing driver. the Porsche guy was impressed!
However, on slicks, it must be awesome.. respect.
Danny - what suspension mods. I have got to do something to stop it going all floaty at the back. Its easy enough to control but a little bit disappointing in terms of outright grip.
The gold and black Westfield XTR2 owned and run by Malcolm Veary (Land & Leisure track days) in question is definitely (by his own admission) not as fast as the Radicals AND it clearly depends on the driver. On the day the Radicals were just incredible.
As for 1.29 on slicks - yep, I can see that if you either know what you are doing or drive like a complete loony (or both). Somebody was claiming 1.28 in a Escort Cossie BUT I don't believe it for a millisecond. A friend was out at the same time in his Scooby and reckoned the Cossie was gaining about 100yds per lap. The Scooby was doing 1.50 somethings so draw your own conclusions about the degree of bravado.
Second biggest grin of the day for me was being driven by a well known racer/journo/car dealer in his beloved 2.8i Capri and blowing a 996 TT into the weeds. An amazing driver. the Porsche guy was impressed!
quote:
Couple of quick points.. please correct me if I am wrong but the right hander before StMarys IS Fordwater isn't it.. can take it flat out in the caterham (not even a lift) but no way could you do that in a road shod Cerbera - it was breaking sideways on the preceding right hand kink (which you definitely take flat)
As for 1.29 on slicks - yep, I can see that if you either know what you are doing or drive like a complete loony (or both). Somebody was claiming 1.28 in a Escort Cossie BUT I don't believe it for a millisecond.
Fordwater is the kink after Madgewick. On cold road tyres I can just about get away with 135 through here if I get the line spot on, but it involves a dose of opposite lock and clench everything. Would be flat out at lower speeds, or stickier tyres. The right hander before St Mary's is called NoName, allegedly because all the things people call it are unprintable. Max speed through here is about 105, again on cold road tyres (not so cold actually, after Fordwater). So depending what speed you're reaching on the approach you could end up driving round the outside of a tightening curve at 150 ish while trying to shed 50 mph, with a tyre wall filling your windscreen. Frankly on a hot lap this corner scares the hell out of me.
Overall, I would have thought 1:28 was quite possible with the right driver. When I sprint my V8S here it's on cold road tyres from a standing start, and my best to date is 96 dead. Knock off say three seconds for a flying start, hot tyres another couple of seconds, theoretically that would put me in the low 91s. Theoretically! Hot slicks would give an easy 4 second improvement. Power is traded at about 30 bhp per second here so dial in more power and see the times tumble. Bottom line is, on the right tyres a Cerbera should be good for mid to high eighties for a flying lap I would have thought? (There's a challenge for somebody!)
Of course, at these speeds it only takes one thing to go wrong, or one tiny mistake, and you can kiss your car (and possibly your life) goodbye. Much nicer to sit by the bar playing these 'what if' games!
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Can't remember the figures, Autocar did a comparative test of a whole bunch of cars, XTR2, Caterham R300, Tamora, 911C2 at Goodwood. Probably about 3 or 4 issues ago, perhaps somebody can dig them out or I will tonight.
They had XTR2 and R300 doing about 88's, with the Mucielago (even more bhp than any TVR) at a smidgen under that. Ok, not on slicks but then Tiff Noodle etc were driving the cars rather than us enthusiastic amateurs. ISTR the Tamora was doing lowish 90's before the engine blew up.
They had XTR2 and R300 doing about 88's, with the Mucielago (even more bhp than any TVR) at a smidgen under that. Ok, not on slicks but then Tiff Noodle etc were driving the cars rather than us enthusiastic amateurs. ISTR the Tamora was doing lowish 90's before the engine blew up.
Aha - thats the beauty of an underpowered caterham. No sphinctor tightening, dry mouth, OMG moments. You drive Goodwood foot to the floor all the way round except for just before St Marys, just before Lavant hairpin and the end of Lavant straight and chicane. Its easy.
Unless, of course, its wet!!!
My business partner's C4 is a little bit shorter now courtesy of some damp tarmac and the tyre wall just before the chicane. I must say it improves the looks tremendously (oooh bitchy). Didn't even get a full lap in - £7,500 per lap, hmmm, thats more than an F1 car isn't it?
Unless, of course, its wet!!!
My business partner's C4 is a little bit shorter now courtesy of some damp tarmac and the tyre wall just before the chicane. I must say it improves the looks tremendously (oooh bitchy). Didn't even get a full lap in - £7,500 per lap, hmmm, thats more than an F1 car isn't it?
GreenV8S said:
Bottom line is, on the right tyres a Cerbera should be good for mid to high eighties for a flying lap I would have thought? (There's a challenge for somebody!)
Of course, at these speeds it only takes one thing to go wrong, or one tiny mistake, and you can kiss your car (and possibly your life) goodbye. Much nicer to sit by the bar playing these 'what if' games!
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Since for insurance purposes no-one could possibly condone any timing of any sort at a non competitive trackday this kind of challenge is purely academic.
The track owners cover may also be at risk. Recently at Oulton Park they were threatening to confiscate people's mobile phones on the pitwall. Apparently there is a timing feature in some phones.
I hope nobody is up to this kind of behaviour when I next visit Goodwood on Nov 21st.
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