RE: Man buys Number Plate
Discussion
naff plate! Gets on my wick that the DVLA make a fortune from selling a plate that says something and then fine the hell out of you when you alter the spacing slightly. can understand it for dodgy italics or hard to read fonts but spacing it to spell a word that is more memorable than the plate - what's the harm in that?
exactly my point (and experience).
They auction "K 1 NGS" for £250,000 (!) because some guy called Mr King wants it.
Then when the documents arrive in the post it tells you in no uncertain terms that if you ilegally space the letters/numbers the licence can be revoked with NO refund.
I refer to my last post in 'speeding and plod', there is a point to correct spacing. It may not seem logical to you on your side of the fence, but the rules have been made, It is very difficult to look at individual examples and say that one is ok just because he has only altered the spacing a little bit, but another deserves to be done because he has gone a bit further. As with most laws people always look for loop holes, half of the time I waste in court is with someone trying to argue 'Well I only broke the law a little bit'.
If the police (in general) showed more initiative, and applied common sense by taking the crime in context, then perhaps you wouldn't waste your time (and public money) in court with people who had broken the law "a little bit"
The bottom line is that the government,the legal system, and the police have an unhealthy and unjustified obsession with motorists and motoring "crime".
We are an easy target, and there lies the answer. It's just too difficult, costly and controversial to tackle the real issues succesfully.
Instead of sitting in lay-bys getting your kicks by flashing your toys at 37mph "criminals", stop my house getting burgled, my kids getting sold drugs, and my car getting vandalised. Thanks
MPH, The Police have many jobs to do, a very small proportion of us are trained to specialise in enforcing traffic legislation, others deal with day to day cals from the public and other departments deal with organised crime. That does not mean to say that as a traffic Officer I would ignore other crimes, Last week of the three nights I worked I arrested 2 for drink driving and 4 for assault/burglary. I also gave out 2 tickets for speeding, 2 for misuse of front foggies & 1 for a misrepresented number plate. If as I am guessing, you assume that you that just because you working, pay insurance are generally 'law abiding' you should be left alone, then you are wrong, most of the people who cause death and injury on our roads through bad driving etc fit into your 'category', The standards of driving in this country are realatively high, this is not just luck it is because the laws are enforced, sometimes by way of fines but also by way of verbal advice
Whilst, I respect John's view and certainly don't disagree with some of the points raised in the last subject re:speeding that he was quite vocal on, I have to just mention this to put into context how many people feel. This is TRUE and I could even supply Crime reference numbers to back it up.
1. September 1999 - Our little B reg escort was stolen. Told Police who said they would do nothing about it as it's too frequent a crime (despite Bromley being low!). Saw the car parked locally a few months later and called Police. "We don't have the resources to come out, if it's parked there then just take it if you can" they told me. I watched car for a bit whilst I called for someone to bring keys from my flat. Fella gets in car and drives off, call Police again and because this time a pursuit was on the cards they acted. Got a call 15mins later to say there had been a chase and the car had crashed. Went to scene of crime and Police had lost suspect despite having 3 cars 2 bikes a dog team and a sodding helicopter. "he knew the area well and was a fit lad" I was told. Got the car back with damage that I had to repair. The Police found a hatchet and cleaver in the passenger seat and the car was going to be used for something nasty. If I had gone to pick the car up when the fella turned up the chances are I would have been seriously hurt. Found out later they had a suspect but because it was 6 months after the event they couldn't do him for it. Also they say he could have claimed he would have given the car back and therefore wasn't technically stealing just taking without consent. They asked if anything was missing from the car as they could nick him on stealing that. WHAT KIND OF WARPED LOGIC IS THIS FERCHRISSAKES!!!!
2. October 1999 - Got pulled by the police. Why? Because I had the 1 and the 3 of my clearly legible DUB 13Y plate approximately half an inch closer than it should (he got out a ruler). THey then commented on how they were unimpressed with my accelerating hard off of a roundabout ont o a dual carriageway. I was in the Esprit Sport 350 at the time and they had the right arse - should have seen their faces when 27 year lod jumped out, they so wanted to "pick on me". Checked everything including boot contents and tax disc (like what muppet is going to drive a 69k car and not have a taxdisc or store 2k of coke in the boot!!!). Wasted my time and I had to get an MOT stamp and produce at Police station.
3. June 2000 - my girlfriend arrived home to discover we had been burgled, Police came and were relatively nonchalant about the whole thing "doubt we'll catch anyone but keep these aside for the SOCO, one said". SOCO got there, took prints and never heard anything again. Chased a few months later - nowt.
4. MY girlfriends ex doesn't know where we live but has threatened to cause problems and has told my girlfriend several times he is out to get me. Now, I give as good as I get when it comes down to it but to save broken bones and the inconvenience we have been to the Police or more than one occassion. "We can't really do anything until he actually turns up" they say - thanks!
Fact of the matter is auto "crime" like speeding is easy to enforce, a vote winner for the greenies and easy for the Police to beat their targets. Domestic crime, burgulary etc., are all harder to crack and take more money and resources so they seem to fall by the wayside.
Now as I say that posting is all 100% true and my dealings with the Police have been less than satisfactory because of it. Maybe I'm just on the ****ty end of the stick but hey, aren't I supposed to be a council tax-paying customer of the Police? If so, then why is it that I always come out on the receiving end of their arrogant attitude (sometimes, I admit they aren't all like it) and seem to be on the negative end of the results???
Hard done by Dubbs :-)
Dubbs what you refer to was dealt with wrongly. as with all profesions I can give similar examples. I prefer to do my job properly. I always treat people with respect, but in return expect the same. Sorry if some of what I have posted has come across condecendingly, that is not my intention or the way I deal with people.
quote:Your company filters your web access to exclude certain categories of "undesirable" web content. Websense, from Netpartners, is a piece of software, combined with a subscription service, that allows companies to perform this filtering, comparing requested site requests such as yours against a large categorised database of sites. Netpartners frequently misclassify web sites, or fail to realise that www.policecars.f9.co.uk is not part of the same operation/site/genre as www.bigones.f9.co.uk. Get your internet security folk to add the site as a customised categorisation, or get them to bitch at Netpartners to fix it. [Blocking sites categorised as "sexuality" smacks of corporate homophobia to me]
http://www.policecars.f9.co.uk/images/other_british/westmids/EspritS4-02.jpg Can't access this from work, websense classification - sexuality. Can somebody explain ?
I kind of half agree with Johns stance on number plates, there's nothing wrong with having a plate that is personal to you if you want, but if its miss represented and someone runs over your daughter but the police carnt catch them as the plate was misrepresented and could really have been anything i doubt any of us would be impressed.
The people taking the piss are the government (as usual) why the F*CK dont they just sell you DUBBSY and be done with it. no reason for moving characters or making letters look like numbers or anything... and a word is more recognisable than abc 123 d...
As usual the police are given a rule to inforce, and thats what we pay them for, although 1/2 inch of spaceing is taking the piss a bit.
ALso john can you let us know every time you nick some b*stard with his rear fogs on in bright day light ( throw the key away thats what i say) I will make me feel so much better....
Graham W
quote:Its an orange Lotus Esprit S4 dressed up as a police car, probably a promotional tool rather than a real police vehicle. Paul S1
http://www.policecars.f9.co.uk/images/other_british/westmids/EspritS4-02.jpg Can't access this from work, websense classification - sexuality. Can somebody explain ?
Dubbs,
Unfortunately there are 2 types of people in the world. The sort that have loads of dealings with the Police, know exactly what they can get away with and what they should say. These people are generally described with the titles "scumbag". It's hard work for the Police to pin anything on them, so they'd rather sit in their patrol cars eating donuts.
The other type of people don't know their rights, and so are easy targets. They'll own up to what they've done wrong. These people are generally refeered to as "people like you and me". It's easy to get a conviction if you pull over some bloke and he says "sorry officer, I understand I'm a bad boy. I'll pay the fine right away".
There's nothing complicated about it. Donut munchers are just ordinary people, who want an easy life. They do the minimum required to get by and not get into trouble with the boss. Ok, we get pissed off about it, because we see it as injustice, but thet just see it as having a quiet life.
James (trying to see the other b@#t@rds point of view)
The position is this, the police in the UK generally are not liked nor respected? Why? People who generally are introduced to a uniform have either done something wrong or have suffered as a result of crime. The difficulty first arises in the latter, in the fact that when confronted with the inability, attitude, and lack of social skills of the police and courts, the every day man no longer feel that the law helps the man on the clapham omnibus.
Conformists within the UK are generally law abiding (I paid 4.5K in tax last month – again, and what for?). I myself am a so-called professional person.
When my sister gets robbed and I get wheels stolen from my car the same week, I am aggrieved only when I get a victim of crime letter and my kin are forgotten. These stories people have are neither cellular nor unusual, they are the norm. All this non-constitutional society hears about is police resources, lack of recruitment, stress levels, potential for injury, un-affordability of accommodation available of our poor bobby. Try your local A&E with me on a Saturday night for a few years then let’s talk seriousness of plate sizes, Gatsos and the real reason for them.
You have presented yourself on a site of people who enjoy burning hydrocarbons and who are generally persecuted for it, and unfortunately thereby open yourself up as a target of disdain. May I suggest that you merely keep your occupation to others as a civil servant with such subjects. For although the task of enforcing is un-thanked, I would consider that peoples feelings on such issues are due to police performance and the publics experiences that render your occupation not entirely helpful. That includes measuring reg. plates only because it’s the law. If I were to follow your rational I should not treat a person on the street, as my PI Insurance wouldn’t cover me there ,,,,,,, for it is the law. I think not, for I know the exceeds of reasonableness.
Sorry pitbull but I am proud of my chosen proffesion, it has its up's and down's, I would like more pay but I am not going to quit if I don't get it. As a general rule I meet few people who dislike the Police, and I am quite prepared to justify what I do to anyone. Irrespective of your earning potential you still have to obey the law of the land. Sorry if I'm being condescending again !!. But if you do want to go burning hydrocarbons there are plenty of track days etc available.
I do not spend my life 'potting' people for minor offences but it is part of the job. As with your job I'm sure there are minor things you would rather not do.
Edited by john robson on Monday 2nd April 23:11
Read this thread with some interest, and broadly agree with the pitbull and his comments.
the police (traffic) have a job to do,yes, but having been on the receiving end of petty enforcement, ie being stopped for no reason other than driving a Pug 1.9gti whilst being young, and having 2 or 3 producers given me, without any penalties etc being issued, i take issue with the "just doing a job " stance of the average copper. some of them like "just doing" it a lot more than is healthy or necessary.
recent years have seen a gradual crackdown on the average motorist, by more gatsos, hidden speed traps etc. we all know that revenue enhancement is now a major issue for the police. the increasing use of cameras at a time when more people are suffering from car crime just annoys the decent working/earning/paying motorist ever more.
after a bad spell of 4 break-ins to my old car in a year, the police actually did turn out, after the 4th one. this was unfortunately 45 mins after i had reported chasing the guy off, and him running into a nearby house.
no action taken, as i was the only witness. not even a knock on the door to enquire there, or fingerprints etc, just a crime number to use yet again if i wanted to claim.
there are hundreds/thousands of these crimes going undetected.
as pitbull mentioned, coming on this type of chat group/forum is a no -win situation for a copper, you will never ever win over us motorists who pay our way, get ripped off etc and see car criminals walk away with minor fines and or community service etc. we are more likely to pay more ourselves in fines if caught for minor speeding offences, than a joyrider who smashes up someone's pride and joy . (if they ever actually get caught and go to court!)
i live some distance away (luckily)from a particularly bad area in sheffield, where every night there are cars taken and burnt out. each week the local paper prints court details where young scum, if ever caught, get £50 fines etc, or 50 hrs community service for it. the police presence is there admittedly, but in limited numbers, and it never stops happening or reduces in the number of reports.
yet go to the doncaster show this weekend and there will be far more police there doing their job, ie nicking people for slightly smaller plates, tinted windows, minor speeding etc.in fact a big turn out is guaranteed this week from the police!
crimes solved will no doubt double!
you sound a reasonable guy , but dont try to convince us we get a decent service from the police, because we all know we dont.
regards
chris 200+
My view is this - For the Police who battle against drug peddlers, Burglars, muggers and rapists I have every respect. Those who simply stand and wave hair dryers at motorists I suggest get a proper job - like perhaps, I know...a Policeman! Who knows you could provide some well required assitance to your colleagues in the crime squad who do a decent job protecting the public from "real" criminals.
Harsh but Fair - Rich...
It wouldn`t be quite so bad if the Traffic / Road Cops actually gave a s**te when you called them to notify them of a car crime instead of quoting you an insurance reference, and of course the Judges gave out Real Punishments to the car thieves and Joy Riders.
IMHO it is the fact that at the moment it seems that more Generally Law abiding people ( I know speeding is a crime ) get caught and Fined a lot of money, then they get some points, and so pay out to the Insurance Sharks, while if they had nicked the car they`d get asked nicely if they can please give it back, and 10 hrs community service.
John, you sound like a reasonable guy. Some of the postings you make are even helpful. But most of the comments made here are right. You are the enemy. *** edit - sorry, no thats too simplistic, cheap shot. You [the police] do yourselves no favours though ***
You can argue all you like about the rights and wrongs of speeding, dodgy number plates, incorrect colour lights et al. It will not alter the fact that on the scale of human misery these things generally do not lift the needle off the stop. Real crimes are where real people suffer real harm.
And please do not trot out the usual statistical baloney about how many accidents are caused by speeding, these stats are believed by no-one.
You will not convince someone whose gran has been mugged and raped that the scarce resource you represent is best utilised handing out tickets for misspaced numberplates. You won't convince me that police are doing a good job when I have lost thousands of pounds over the years due to thefts and vandalism, and the police mostly don't even bother to visit the scene of the crime.
I've had to suffer condescending lectures for 15 minutes after being pulled up for doing 50 in, er, a 50 limit. Thats after being followed for 3 miles without doing a thing wrong. How much valuable police time was that wasted? Just so some idiot can show off in front of his female partner?
Almost everyone knows stories of coppers drinking after hours/drinking and driving etc and getting away with it because their mates look the other way. I know of one copper who joined just so he could have fights at football matches without getting arrested. The story about more people being killed by speeding policemen than drunk drivers in Birmingham may be apocryphal, but quite frankly it is very believable.
You (the police) have zero credibility. Stick to the same tired rhetoric and that credibility is not likely to improve.
[PS John, I was not bitching about getting tickets for minor offences here (I haven't); that was not the point I was trying to make at all. Sorry if my message was obscured by the ranting!!]
Edited by philshort on Thursday 5th April 23:23
Interesting reading, thanks for the replies. I do think what I'm trying to get across is a bit lost though. I am a Traffic Officer. This is a specialised post to some degree, but overall I am a Police officer, I do deal and respond to the jobs you think coppers should deal with in addition to Traffic Policing. My main duties are dealing with RTA's, in fact in October last year when I attended a fatal accident I was involved with the investigation of it almost single handedly up until January, Ok I did have to fit my normal duties into that as well but it is time consuming. Anyway durring that time I only managed to hand out 2 speeding tickets and about 8 others for minor offences, but beleive it of not we do get letter/complaint re cocked up numbers, foggies, no tax, bad parking, etc etc so we do have to do something about it, I would love to find a way of getting people to observe the minor aspects of road traffic law without giving tickets, but to date I have yet to hear of one, (any suggestions, I will submitt to the appropriate dept) Ps it does have to be realistic though, ie "my 1 & 3 were only a bit closer than they should be" also applies to the joker who took A6 UNT to court after arguing that his 6 didn't realy look like a C. As I am trying to point out, most of my time is spent dealing with the consequences of bad driving, speeding, etc.
Most of the points raised in your posts complain of minor offences being picked up on yet you quote more serious events being ignored, dead simple, you mostly know the rules don't break them. Yours condescendingly John.
Ps sorry phil but I give up with you, you appear to have all the answers, keep yer foot to the boards and I hope you drive as good as you write.
Edited by john robson on Tuesday 3rd April 23:31
Edited by john robson on Tuesday 3rd April 23:38
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