Mobiles 'worse than drink driving'
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1885000/1885775.stm
Any thoughts on this? Personally I can't see the difference between talking to someone on a hands free and having a conversation with a passenger in a car. But I imagine that driving while holding a mobile to your ear is something that plod will start cracking down on soon? It's amazing the number of people who you see doing it.
Any thoughts on this? Personally I can't see the difference between talking to someone on a hands free and having a conversation with a passenger in a car. But I imagine that driving while holding a mobile to your ear is something that plod will start cracking down on soon? It's amazing the number of people who you see doing it.
Saw a good one last night! A guy in a merc started reversing up a hill away from the junction on the road i was about to turn into. He backed about 50 yards away and sat in reverse gear with the brakes on right in the middle of the road! As i passed him, I noticed he was talking on the bloody phone!! Idiot! 
quote:
Personally I can't see the difference between talking to someone on a hands free and having a conversation with a passenger in a car.
Try this experiment. The next time your favorite sporting event (something you really need to pay attention to - like the first turn of an F1 race) comes on, ask your wife/girlfriend (or both if you are so inclined
) to please strike up a conversation with you about something really important. You will only remember the DETAILS of one (either the sporting event or the wife/girlfriend's conversation). Oh, you will have a general notion of both, but a general notion in heavy traffic can crunch you...
Most of the people on this site are good if not great drivers (McNab springs to mind), but a majority of the general populace is NOT and can't be bothered to learn. Let them take the phones away. The life you save may be your own if one of those Numpties in an SUV is careening toward your Tamora with a Nokia to thier ear...
Also, maybe use it as a way to get the speed limit lifted. Back the "no phones" if they will reciprocate with higher limits. After all, by thier own admission, the streets will be safer...
All of this is IMHO
ErnestM
quote:I wasn't even aware this was optional?
The next time your favorite sporting event (something you really need to pay attention to - like the first turn of an F1 race) comes on, ask your wife/girlfriend (or both if you are so inclined
WILL YOU SHUT UP WOMAN !!! I went to a lecture recently by a boffin from Reading University - nice chap. The lecture was about road accidents, their causes and what makes a difference to having/not having them.
His group observed drivers both on the road and using a simulator.
What they discovered was (my summary):
1) Car control skills make little difference to how likely you are to have a road accident.
2) Observation Skills made a very large difference.
Under this regime you would expect trained Police drivers to have less accidents than inexperienced drivers.
BUT
2) ONLY WORKED IF the driver was concentrating hard on the business of observing. i.e. paying attention to driving and nothing else. No matter how much experience or practice the driver had at driving their skills dropped to being equal to a numptie once they were distracted...
To test this they gave them a (quite difficult) voice based task they had to carry out whilst driving a simulator.
Although the Police drivers were still better in the simulator than the inexperienced drivers - the difference was nowhere near what it was when they were concentrating solely on the driving.
Their findings were (unsurprisingly) in car distractions BAD. Driver Observation training GOOD but ONLY if distractions avoided.
My apologies to our learned academic friends if my summary is over-simplistic or wrong in part - but this is what I took away from the lecture.
Interesting isn't it? Practicing driving is GOOD but if you have an argument with the Mrs in the car it undoes practically all the benefit!
His group observed drivers both on the road and using a simulator.
What they discovered was (my summary):
1) Car control skills make little difference to how likely you are to have a road accident.
2) Observation Skills made a very large difference.
Under this regime you would expect trained Police drivers to have less accidents than inexperienced drivers.
BUT
2) ONLY WORKED IF the driver was concentrating hard on the business of observing. i.e. paying attention to driving and nothing else. No matter how much experience or practice the driver had at driving their skills dropped to being equal to a numptie once they were distracted...
To test this they gave them a (quite difficult) voice based task they had to carry out whilst driving a simulator.
Although the Police drivers were still better in the simulator than the inexperienced drivers - the difference was nowhere near what it was when they were concentrating solely on the driving.
Their findings were (unsurprisingly) in car distractions BAD. Driver Observation training GOOD but ONLY if distractions avoided.
My apologies to our learned academic friends if my summary is over-simplistic or wrong in part - but this is what I took away from the lecture.
Interesting isn't it? Practicing driving is GOOD but if you have an argument with the Mrs in the car it undoes practically all the benefit!
I read somewhere (sorry thats about as specific as it gets) that the problem is that observational skills and conversational skills used the same part of the brain for certain parts of their function.
If you're trying to do both, the brain switches focus between the two, meaning you're not fully concentrating on either.
How many times have you been able to 'spot' someone using their mobile on the motorway because of the way they weave...?
If you're trying to do both, the brain switches focus between the two, meaning you're not fully concentrating on either.
How many times have you been able to 'spot' someone using their mobile on the motorway because of the way they weave...?
I was sat at a set of traffic lights at a large intersection in Atlanta about 18 months ago. There was a fella coming from the East turning right to go North. He was driving a massive Merc SEL thing and was using a phone (still not illegal in the US!). The lights went red, he wasnt really paying attention and bumped the car in front of him, then, still on the phone, paniced and reversed hitting the car behind him. I was sat there astonished, and hoped he was on the phone to his lawyer! Hilarious to watch at the time though, Harold Lloyd couldnt have done better!
Matt.
Matt.
quote:
...sat at a set of traffic lights at a large intersection in Atlanta...
Matt.
Say no more, say no more. Atlanta's a ZOO when it comes to traffic congestion, yet every idiot on the entire I-285 EIGHT LANE by pass has got a cell phone superglued to thier ear.
I love driving, but when I have to go to Atlanta for business - I fly - the sky is safer - even in today's climate... ErnestM
Ernest,
I had some friends who lived to the West of the city and one day in mid October there was a freak snowstorm. As its so damned hot usually no one knew how to react and people were just abandoning cars on 285, it took my mate 11 hours to get home because he litterally had to swerve in and out of parked and locked cars on the carriageway.
The intersection above is that really well planned one at Peachtree and Piedmont in Buckhead between the two massive mauls and the toll road - what a great bit of town planning that was!!!
BTW - I noticed in your profile that you have a Lincoln LS - lovely car and if I had stayed out there I probably would have had one of them next. How is it?
Matt.
I had some friends who lived to the West of the city and one day in mid October there was a freak snowstorm. As its so damned hot usually no one knew how to react and people were just abandoning cars on 285, it took my mate 11 hours to get home because he litterally had to swerve in and out of parked and locked cars on the carriageway.
The intersection above is that really well planned one at Peachtree and Piedmont in Buckhead between the two massive mauls and the toll road - what a great bit of town planning that was!!!
BTW - I noticed in your profile that you have a Lincoln LS - lovely car and if I had stayed out there I probably would have had one of them next. How is it?
Matt.
Interesting thoughts (I'm not talking about Atlanta reminisces, BTW) and something I've long suspected, even though I do still hold conversations on the hands-free.
I think it is also true to say that there is a difference between having a conversation with your passenger and having one on the phone. For a start, we tend to subconsciously devote more concentration to a phone than a person. Don’t know why, but we do – how often do we interrupt a face-to-face conversation with a person because the phone starts ringing?
Also, if a tricky situation develops on the road, most passengers will shut up immediately (or start screaming, or say “look out FFS”, or whatever). However, for a phone conversation you have to say “hold on a minute”, then they say “why?” (or get upset with you for interrupting them) and then there is a bang and you say “because I’ve just crashed”.
However, I’m loathe to be outright in favour of banning their use, because I find it very convenient to use my car journey home at night to make calls to friends & family and have a chat. Otherwise the journey home is wasted time and I have to spend the corresponding amount of time when I get home making those calls. But I guess safety is paramount, so maybe I should stop doing that.
I think it is also true to say that there is a difference between having a conversation with your passenger and having one on the phone. For a start, we tend to subconsciously devote more concentration to a phone than a person. Don’t know why, but we do – how often do we interrupt a face-to-face conversation with a person because the phone starts ringing?
Also, if a tricky situation develops on the road, most passengers will shut up immediately (or start screaming, or say “look out FFS”, or whatever). However, for a phone conversation you have to say “hold on a minute”, then they say “why?” (or get upset with you for interrupting them) and then there is a bang and you say “because I’ve just crashed”.
However, I’m loathe to be outright in favour of banning their use, because I find it very convenient to use my car journey home at night to make calls to friends & family and have a chat. Otherwise the journey home is wasted time and I have to spend the corresponding amount of time when I get home making those calls. But I guess safety is paramount, so maybe I should stop doing that.
I think the useage of mobile phones comes down to being sensible. I dont think there are many people (certaintly on here anyway) who would drive along in the pouring rain, little visibility etc etc on the phone as its just plain silly. Along with this though I dont agree with the outright banning of something because you have to agree to a 'lowest common denominator' as thats just arse. If the populus at large are capable of making the decision as to when it safe to use a mobile then why should the majority be punished for the actions of a minority.
It does amaze me that amount of people that you still see actually holding phones and the amount of people that you see (usually in BMW's) holding a phone, writing and driving with their knees. Perhaps the solution is to REALLY punish the fools but allow the rest of us the luxury of being able to call people whilst driving as long as its done so in a safe manner.
Matt.
It does amaze me that amount of people that you still see actually holding phones and the amount of people that you see (usually in BMW's) holding a phone, writing and driving with their knees. Perhaps the solution is to REALLY punish the fools but allow the rest of us the luxury of being able to call people whilst driving as long as its done so in a safe manner.
Matt.
Matt (Plotloss):
That wonderful example of architectural engineering was at one time referred by the citizens of Atlanta as "spaghetti junction"
Used to live there. Much nicer here in Orlando. The LS is a good car. Nothing spectacular but it has a nice feel and very reliable. I have the 3.0 5-speed sport package. It's my company car and I am going to give it up in June/July (lease is up). Thinking about a new X-type sport package. I heard a rumor they are going to have an X-type R soon (supercharged!), so may wait for that.
Also, one other thing about Atlanta. If they get over 1/2 inch of snow, they shut down the whole city and I believe that IS traffic related...
ErnestM
That wonderful example of architectural engineering was at one time referred by the citizens of Atlanta as "spaghetti junction"
Used to live there. Much nicer here in Orlando. The LS is a good car. Nothing spectacular but it has a nice feel and very reliable. I have the 3.0 5-speed sport package. It's my company car and I am going to give it up in June/July (lease is up). Thinking about a new X-type sport package. I heard a rumor they are going to have an X-type R soon (supercharged!), so may wait for that.
Also, one other thing about Atlanta. If they get over 1/2 inch of snow, they shut down the whole city and I believe that IS traffic related...
ErnestM
The BBC item suggested that mobile phones were as dangerous as drink driving. Anyone who's seen me drunk would realise that's total bollocks.
More seriously, I have mixed feelings. I've been out of the car on a couple of occasions explaining to the airheaded bimbo in the Canyonero behind me that I'm not moving until she puts her phone down 'cos she clearly can't control the vehicle properly while juggling the phone.
I have and use a full hands free installation with single button and voice dialling. However I avoid "serious" calls because of the impact on my concentration. I don't negotiate with clients for example, I don't want to be in any call where I feel I can't shut up and stop listening while I concentrate on the road (because I might miss an important point for example).
Although this limits the value of a mobile phone as a business tool, my life is more important than my work and I don't want to put it (or other people's lives) at risk.
Once again, we are in danger of being legislated against because people are unable to make sensible decisions about how they behave without laws to tell them what to do.
I find this very sad and part of the broader deterioration of society with the growth of "the nanny state" and the "blame culture" which fills our TV screens with adverts for dodgy legal firms preying on the greedy.
It's not that we have to worry about the Orwellian nightmare of a population controlled by an all-powerful state being imposed upon us. The Great Unwashed are bringing it upon themselves by their unwillingness to make sensible decisions about what they should and shouldn't do and their inability to take responsibility for their own actions.
By 'eck - that was a bit heavy for a Friday. Sorry guys
More seriously, I have mixed feelings. I've been out of the car on a couple of occasions explaining to the airheaded bimbo in the Canyonero behind me that I'm not moving until she puts her phone down 'cos she clearly can't control the vehicle properly while juggling the phone.
I have and use a full hands free installation with single button and voice dialling. However I avoid "serious" calls because of the impact on my concentration. I don't negotiate with clients for example, I don't want to be in any call where I feel I can't shut up and stop listening while I concentrate on the road (because I might miss an important point for example).
Although this limits the value of a mobile phone as a business tool, my life is more important than my work and I don't want to put it (or other people's lives) at risk.
Once again, we are in danger of being legislated against because people are unable to make sensible decisions about how they behave without laws to tell them what to do.
I find this very sad and part of the broader deterioration of society with the growth of "the nanny state" and the "blame culture" which fills our TV screens with adverts for dodgy legal firms preying on the greedy.
It's not that we have to worry about the Orwellian nightmare of a population controlled by an all-powerful state being imposed upon us. The Great Unwashed are bringing it upon themselves by their unwillingness to make sensible decisions about what they should and shouldn't do and their inability to take responsibility for their own actions.
By 'eck - that was a bit heavy for a Friday. Sorry guys
quote:
If the populus at large are capable of making the decision as to when it safe to use a mobile...
There's a lot of numpties out there who probably aren't capable of making that decision evidenced by the number of people you see negotiating roundabouts & junctions with a phone to their ear
quote:
quote:I wasn't even aware this was optional?
The next time your favorite sporting event (something you really need to pay attention to - like the first turn of an F1 race) comes on, ask your wife/girlfriend (or both if you are so inclined
Damn kin beat me to it
I'm sure any court would happily prosecute a motorist for driving without due care and attention for driving whilst on the phone. Why do we need a specific law for it. Sufficient legislation exists, but there are insuffience officers of the law to enforce it. Law enforcement in this country is a joke.
Ted, you're right, it does come under 'due care & attention', as does smoking, eating, drinking, w****ing and anything else you might be doing at the wheel, that distracts you.
As far as punishment goes, I couldn't agree more. I saw a prime example last night on my way home from work. I was on a reasonale straight on an A road and saw a Police rapid response car, blue light on (etc.) in the oncomming carraigeway, trying to overtake a numpty.
Since I was in the pick-up, and was feeling helpful, I popped 2 wheels onto the verge as far as possible, but since the numpty that the Police car was stuck behind still hadn't looked in their rear view mirror and moved over, plod couldn't overtake, until they'd both passed me.
Totally moronic driving from the numpty - there were ample places to have pulled over before if the mirrors were in uase - but they got away with it. You can't help but think that if the offence were speeding rather than the general incompetance exhibited, the plod would have changed priorities and dished out a fine.
As far as punishment goes, I couldn't agree more. I saw a prime example last night on my way home from work. I was on a reasonale straight on an A road and saw a Police rapid response car, blue light on (etc.) in the oncomming carraigeway, trying to overtake a numpty.
Since I was in the pick-up, and was feeling helpful, I popped 2 wheels onto the verge as far as possible, but since the numpty that the Police car was stuck behind still hadn't looked in their rear view mirror and moved over, plod couldn't overtake, until they'd both passed me.
Totally moronic driving from the numpty - there were ample places to have pulled over before if the mirrors were in uase - but they got away with it. You can't help but think that if the offence were speeding rather than the general incompetance exhibited, the plod would have changed priorities and dished out a fine.
Mobile phones in cars are a pest. I can't understand why people wont fork out for the cost of a personal hands-free kit. Yeah I understand that you may get more distracted than if you were talking to the person next to you, but come on, statements like that are total crap without other research.
Where is the research informing you how much distraction having the radio on? Singing? Chatting to a friend sat next to you? Watching the kids bounce around the back seat cos you dont give a shit about your kids lifes by not ensuring they wear their seatbelt (I'm currently (un)fortunate to be on my way home at the same time as the Mum-run, and it shocks me).
I can understand the argument that having one hand off the wheel actually holding onto something else (i.e. a phone) will mean you cannot control the vehicle as well as if you've got both hands planted at 10 past 2! But c'mon, get real with the statements. Do they just make radical statements like that just to get headlines?
Everything around you, inside the car and outside are all distractions. A stone chip hits the windscreen, do you not re-focus and try to see if its cracked the screen, or do you look through it (not literally the hole) and keep concentrating on the road.
Maybe I'm not making a good argument here (but its been lots of EARLY starts), but unless you're going to cocoon everyone in their cars on their own, and give them blinkers, then its difficult to quantify.
Should they get together a league table (the government like them at the moment), and use a totting up system (like points), and start calculating whether you should get in the car or not.
Big Stereo............3 pts
Chatty Wife...........5 pts
Flahing LED things....7 pts
1 pint lager.........10 pts
2 pints lager........20 pts
3 Kids...............25 pts
etc, etc, and if you total upto more that 20 points you should stay at home, get stoned and watch Police, Camera, Action.
Surely, we're back to education again. Driving to the conditions - conditions change - phone rings - change driving style, either slow down or stop. If you have to take the call do so. I remember I bought my phone so that I could order a take-a-way on the way home as I was working very late a few years back, and thought it would save me time.
Anyway, enough incoherrant rantings for now
Paul
Where is the research informing you how much distraction having the radio on? Singing? Chatting to a friend sat next to you? Watching the kids bounce around the back seat cos you dont give a shit about your kids lifes by not ensuring they wear their seatbelt (I'm currently (un)fortunate to be on my way home at the same time as the Mum-run, and it shocks me).
I can understand the argument that having one hand off the wheel actually holding onto something else (i.e. a phone) will mean you cannot control the vehicle as well as if you've got both hands planted at 10 past 2! But c'mon, get real with the statements. Do they just make radical statements like that just to get headlines?
Everything around you, inside the car and outside are all distractions. A stone chip hits the windscreen, do you not re-focus and try to see if its cracked the screen, or do you look through it (not literally the hole) and keep concentrating on the road.
Maybe I'm not making a good argument here (but its been lots of EARLY starts), but unless you're going to cocoon everyone in their cars on their own, and give them blinkers, then its difficult to quantify.
Should they get together a league table (the government like them at the moment), and use a totting up system (like points), and start calculating whether you should get in the car or not.
Big Stereo............3 pts
Chatty Wife...........5 pts
Flahing LED things....7 pts
1 pint lager.........10 pts
2 pints lager........20 pts
3 Kids...............25 pts
etc, etc, and if you total upto more that 20 points you should stay at home, get stoned and watch Police, Camera, Action.
Surely, we're back to education again. Driving to the conditions - conditions change - phone rings - change driving style, either slow down or stop. If you have to take the call do so. I remember I bought my phone so that I could order a take-a-way on the way home as I was working very late a few years back, and thought it would save me time.
Anyway, enough incoherrant rantings for now
Paul
Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff