RE: Hard Shoulders To Be Cheap New Lanes
Thursday 19th June 2008
Trials are already in placeMotorway breakdowns could become a lot more dangerous thanks to a Highways Agency plan to open up the hard shoulder to traffic, it is feared. The scheme is said to be a cheaper alternative to road widening and will result in a reduction of emergency lay-bys.
Hard Shoulders To Be Cheap New Lanes
Drivers could be at risk from cheap alternative to widening roads
Trials are already in place
Over 250 miles of motorway, including parts of the M1, M3, M4, M5, M6, M25 and M62, is reportedly being considered for ‘hard-shoulder running’ and the agency could save billions in road building. Changing a hard shoulder costs an estimated £10million a mile whereas widening costs up to £40million a mile.
The number of lay-bys – or ‘emergency refuge areas’ as the agency calls them - could also be reduced to save even more money. These are currently every 500 metres on the M42 east of Birmingham, where trials have begun of using the hard should in busy periods.
It has apparently now been decided to extend hard-shoulder running to the M6 through Birmingham and Walsall but to widen the gaps to every 800 metres. Of course cameras will play a part in the new plans and CCTV will monitor the motorway and close the hard shoulder if a driver is having difficulties.
Critics believe this would mean the prevention of huge pile-ups would come down to an operator in a control room. The AA said that the agency should not be trying to save money by cutting safety measures.
Edmund King, president of the AA, said: ‘We are concerned that motorists will be caught short, unable to reach the next refuge and having the terrifying experience of being stopped amid fast-flowing traffic.’
Discussion
RJE1966 said:
Isn't this old, old news?
And describing the outside lane (for overtaking) as the 'fast lane' drives (NPI) me nuts.... it just gets worse
ok, well 'over-taking' lane then... surely if you're over-taking in that lane, you're going faster, hence why people refer to it as the 'fast-lane'. I was really pointing out that the world and their wives seem to use that outside lane regardless of what speed they want to travel at anyway, so an extra lane won't make any difference, in congestion or not.And describing the outside lane (for overtaking) as the 'fast lane' drives (NPI) me nuts.... it just gets worse
stockver said:
how does it cost such an exorbitant fee to change a mile of a lane, and 4x that to create a new mile?
Well the genius that came up with this idea has to be paid a small fortune for a start.This f
king country gets worse by the day.Edited by layabout on Thursday 19th June 10:55
stockver said:
how does it cost such an exorbitant fee to change a mile of a lane, and 4x that to create a new mile?
Probably because they need to install a load of new gantries to inform people whether or not they can use the hard shoulder, plus the stretch of road it's on will need to be upgraded to MIDAS I assume (the variable speed limit stuff).I still don't agree with this though, you can already see cost cutting on the newer bits of the M25 that have been widened (with the exception of the Heathrow stretch), where they actually just converted the hard shoulder to another lane and plonked a new hard shoulder next to it (this is why the hard shoulder disappears under every bridge!).
We already know the government wants to get us off the road, but for bits of road that genuinely DO need widening, don't be cheapskates and do it this way!
Rant over. lol
Edited by James MSC on Thursday 19th June 10:55
I experienced this on the M42 around Birmingham and it actually seems like a good idea, it appears to work fine. I suppose the only drawback is if someone breaks down and then you've lost the extra lane!
The issue is why don't people just use the correct lanes in the first place? For example whenever I have to use the M25 for work I join at the junction with the M23 heading towards Heathrow and the majority of cars are crammed into lanes 3 and 4 all doing 60 mph about a foot from each others bumpers. People follow each other like sheep and rather then observing what's around them they seem convinced that sticking in the outside lanes will get them to their destination faster. Then there's poor me with an empty lane 2 wanting to do 70mph but I'm hesitant to undertake!
The issue is why don't people just use the correct lanes in the first place? For example whenever I have to use the M25 for work I join at the junction with the M23 heading towards Heathrow and the majority of cars are crammed into lanes 3 and 4 all doing 60 mph about a foot from each others bumpers. People follow each other like sheep and rather then observing what's around them they seem convinced that sticking in the outside lanes will get them to their destination faster. Then there's poor me with an empty lane 2 wanting to do 70mph but I'm hesitant to undertake!
Drivers need to be re-educated to use only the 1st lane unless overtaking, here we could all take a leaf out of the French's book who seem to do this religiously.
Or just allow undertaking meaning that a greater percentage of the road would be utilised by all driers, but unfortunately making the roads a free-for-all!
Also: How on earth does it cost £40 MILLION a mile to widen a road, are the DFT REALLY that inefficient?
Or just allow undertaking meaning that a greater percentage of the road would be utilised by all driers, but unfortunately making the roads a free-for-all!
Also: How on earth does it cost £40 MILLION a mile to widen a road, are the DFT REALLY that inefficient?
Edited by Pingman on Thursday 19th June 11:20
IrockZee said:
I experienced this on the M42 around Birmingham and it actually seems like a good idea, it appears to work fine. I suppose the only drawback is if someone breaks down and then you've lost the extra lane!
It does work fine and has been proven to have saved lives and made the journey round that part of the M42 a lot quicker.Pingman said:
Drivers need to be re-educated to use only the 1st lane unless overtaking.
One of their fancy THINK! advertising campaign to explain to the Middle Lane Owners Club why what they're doing is wrong (make the MLOC as socially unacceptable as drink driving), combined with a default 'Keep left unless overtaking' on unused gantry signs... It'd probably cost less than one mile of widening, have much more impact and means we don't need to disrupt the road network by building new roads. You could even suggest it's the 'green' solution because it doesn't involve building new roads and improves the flow of traffic.
Gruffy said:
Pingman said:
Drivers need to be re-educated to use only the 1st lane unless overtaking.
One of their fancy THINK! advertising campaign to explain to the Middle Lane Owners Club why what they're doing is wrong (make the MLOC as socially unacceptable as drink driving), combined with a default 'Keep left unless overtaking' on unused gantry signs... It'd probably cost less than one mile of widening, have much more impact and means we don't need to disrupt the road network by building new roads. You could even suggest it's the 'green' solution because it doesn't involve building new roads and improves the flow of traffic.
still trying to figure out if this site is a piss-take http://www.lum.co.uk/mloc/
check out the speed limit page
ETA: yes it is a piss-take, and now I feel stupid.
check out the speed limit page
ETA: yes it is a piss-take, and now I feel stupid.
Edited by Trixman on Thursday 19th June 12:18
NDT said:
IrockZee said:
I experienced this on the M42 around Birmingham and it actually seems like a good idea, it appears to work fine. I suppose the only drawback is if someone breaks down and then you've lost the extra lane!
It does work fine and has been proven to have saved lives and made the journey round that part of the M42 a lot quicker.
Pingman said:
Drivers need to be re-educated to use only the 1st lane unless overtaking, here we could all take a leaf out of the French's book who seem to do this religiously.
Or just allow undertaking meaning that a greater percentage of the road would be utilised by all driers, but unfortunately making the roads a free-for-all!
Also: How on earth does it cost £40 MILLION a mile to widen a road, are the DFT REALLY that inefficient?
40 Million a mile - not far off. due to the increasing costs of buying land thanks to developers holding there own land banks etc. and the increasing cost of labour and the red tape that the governement have put in place. Or just allow undertaking meaning that a greater percentage of the road would be utilised by all driers, but unfortunately making the roads a free-for-all!
Also: How on earth does it cost £40 MILLION a mile to widen a road, are the DFT REALLY that inefficient?
Edited by Pingman on Thursday 19th June 11:20
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