Euro 7 - oh dear
Discussion
There's a lot not to like about Euro 7, but the real-time OTA monitoring of emissions is quite impressive /s:
"Nor are there any specifics about who will pay for any breaches. One engineer gave an example of a person who climbs into their car in the morning and joins a traffic jam, or overtakes on a cold day. In these circumstances it is highly likely that the engine will breach NOx emissions levels, but will the owner get a fine for something they can do little about, or will that particularly unwelcome envelope be sent to the car’s manufacturer?"
I don't know why the EU didn't just say: no more ICE from 2025. Perhaps that's the real plan...
"Nor are there any specifics about who will pay for any breaches. One engineer gave an example of a person who climbs into their car in the morning and joins a traffic jam, or overtakes on a cold day. In these circumstances it is highly likely that the engine will breach NOx emissions levels, but will the owner get a fine for something they can do little about, or will that particularly unwelcome envelope be sent to the car’s manufacturer?"
I don't know why the EU didn't just say: no more ICE from 2025. Perhaps that's the real plan...
Unfortunately you heard wrong. As of right now it’s still going ahead. In fact they have brought it forward. Original date for introduction was muted as 2027. It’s now 2025. For light duty at least. Scant details. Just proposals at moment. So we have very little time to make this happen and virtually no real details as to what we actually have to adhere to. It’s quite an eye opener being semi involved in the process!
It’s going to be a very painful one though.
It’s going to be a very painful one though.
boxedin said:
I don't know why the EU didn't just say: no more ICE from 2025. Perhaps that's the real plan...
From what I have read previously, long before the EU had voted to proceed with the ICE ban next decade in fact, Euro 7 would be the last, so in a way (via the back door) it was alluding to no more ICE.Someone in a committee/boardroom decide ICE should be banned a long time ago. They are just making it impossible for ICE to exist.
The green agenda will push through at a pace that it will be painful for the people on lower incomes. Personal mobility will go back a few decades to a large proportion of the population.
I am all up for improving the environment, reducing emissions etc but the way this has been done is offensive to say the least with complete disregard to the direct implications on a lot of low income people.
Want to decarbonise? Focus on clean and cheap energy production first then you are in a strong position to electrify more stuff, etc. in the end they want people to walk or ride a bike. Personal mobility will take a hit big time and that same personal mobility is what made and makes the economies grow. Workers can live in the factories, trades can’t work from home, etc etc.
The green agenda will push through at a pace that it will be painful for the people on lower incomes. Personal mobility will go back a few decades to a large proportion of the population.
I am all up for improving the environment, reducing emissions etc but the way this has been done is offensive to say the least with complete disregard to the direct implications on a lot of low income people.
Want to decarbonise? Focus on clean and cheap energy production first then you are in a strong position to electrify more stuff, etc. in the end they want people to walk or ride a bike. Personal mobility will take a hit big time and that same personal mobility is what made and makes the economies grow. Workers can live in the factories, trades can’t work from home, etc etc.
My view as I have said elsewhere is that net zero doesn't really stack up.
There are certainly some benefits like less noise pollution operating an EV, no risks of harmful smoke or particles coming out of a tailpipe, less component parts and cleaner air.
However, there is still a lot of harm being done to humans and the environment elsewhere in sourcing minerals, electricity consumption etc, but because ordinarily (unless you went to the mines, factories etc themselves) you would not tangibly come into contact with that 'harm', some EVangelists turn a blind eye to it or play it down like it's a price worth paying (i.e. it's necessary collateral damage). I can't see it or breathe it, ergo it doesn't exist or isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
That is in contrast to CO2 coming out of a tailpipe, which you know exists and is your own hard copy print-out that your vehicle is causing environmental harm.
Poorer motorists of course won't be in a position to afford an EV or the used car market will trickle down EV bangers that need thousands spending because of knackered batteries or other components (the parts and labour costs of which nobody yet knows the answer).
I am following the development of synthetic fuels and how long that can prop the ICE industry and market up. Right now, I can't see there being a reversal and Euro 8 later popping up.
ICE certainly isn't dead yet - the proportion of the world where there are no foreseeable or feasible ICE bans far exceeds the proportion of the world that is seeking to ban ICE. Japan isn't banning them - there can always be imports from Japan to the UK.
Despite well-known marques seemingly ditching ICE, they are still manufacturing ICE in their operations in China for such markets. So when I read that GM, Ford etc are switching to EV, you know it's a load of cobblers.
If anything, it means China benefits from both ICE and EV production and export: filling a global void for ICE whilst also benefitting from a growing presence in EV.
It won't be long before Chinese marques and EVs have a visible presence in Western markets (which has already started), and most likely will be affordable and fill the vacuum since Korean marques went a bit more premium.
Who knows, maybe buying a Chinese EV will be the financially viable way for poorer motorists, and hopefully a remedy for brand snobbery and loyalty which is rather obsolete with EVs.
There are certainly some benefits like less noise pollution operating an EV, no risks of harmful smoke or particles coming out of a tailpipe, less component parts and cleaner air.
However, there is still a lot of harm being done to humans and the environment elsewhere in sourcing minerals, electricity consumption etc, but because ordinarily (unless you went to the mines, factories etc themselves) you would not tangibly come into contact with that 'harm', some EVangelists turn a blind eye to it or play it down like it's a price worth paying (i.e. it's necessary collateral damage). I can't see it or breathe it, ergo it doesn't exist or isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
That is in contrast to CO2 coming out of a tailpipe, which you know exists and is your own hard copy print-out that your vehicle is causing environmental harm.
Poorer motorists of course won't be in a position to afford an EV or the used car market will trickle down EV bangers that need thousands spending because of knackered batteries or other components (the parts and labour costs of which nobody yet knows the answer).
I am following the development of synthetic fuels and how long that can prop the ICE industry and market up. Right now, I can't see there being a reversal and Euro 8 later popping up.
ICE certainly isn't dead yet - the proportion of the world where there are no foreseeable or feasible ICE bans far exceeds the proportion of the world that is seeking to ban ICE. Japan isn't banning them - there can always be imports from Japan to the UK.
Despite well-known marques seemingly ditching ICE, they are still manufacturing ICE in their operations in China for such markets. So when I read that GM, Ford etc are switching to EV, you know it's a load of cobblers.
If anything, it means China benefits from both ICE and EV production and export: filling a global void for ICE whilst also benefitting from a growing presence in EV.
It won't be long before Chinese marques and EVs have a visible presence in Western markets (which has already started), and most likely will be affordable and fill the vacuum since Korean marques went a bit more premium.
Who knows, maybe buying a Chinese EV will be the financially viable way for poorer motorists, and hopefully a remedy for brand snobbery and loyalty which is rather obsolete with EVs.
CrgT16 said:
The green agenda will push through at a pace that it will be painful for the people on lower incomes. Personal mobility will go back a few decades to a large proportion of the population.
I am all up for improving the environment, reducing emissions etc but the way this has been done is offensive to say the least with complete disregard to the direct implications on a lot of low income people.
That’s the plan.I am all up for improving the environment, reducing emissions etc but the way this has been done is offensive to say the least with complete disregard to the direct implications on a lot of low income people.
It became obvious a long time ago that all of this had nothing to do with saving polar bears.
People really need to learn how to start counting lamp posts in Italian. The tail shouldn’t wag the dog.
mini me said:
Unfortunately you heard wrong. As of right now it’s still going ahead. In fact they have brought it forward. Original date for introduction was muted as 2027. It’s now 2025. For light duty at least. Scant details. Just proposals at moment. So we have very little time to make this happen and virtually no real details as to what we actually have to adhere to. It’s quite an eye opener being semi involved in the process!
It’s going to be a very painful one though.
Renault, Stellantis and BMW have all told t he EU and UK that they are not prepared to continue funding Euro 7 research for engines that will be ditched 5 years on - ED page of November issue of EVO quotes the letter.It’s going to be a very painful one though.
mini me said:
Unfortunately you heard wrong. As of right now it’s still going ahead. In fact they have brought it forward. Original date for introduction was muted as 2027. It’s now 2025. For light duty at least. Scant details. Just proposals at moment. So we have very little time to make this happen and virtually no real details as to what we actually have to adhere to. It’s quite an eye opener being semi involved in the process!
It’s going to be a very painful one though.
Thanks for the clarification in the information about thisIt’s going to be a very painful one though.
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