Audi to cut 9500 jobs to fund EVs
Discussion
seams quite extreme, do they not have a large cash pot like VW?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50563254
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50563254
You may imagine so, but not at that scale. The problem, in my opinion anyway, is the the public sector thinks that the private sector has got access to reserves on the same scale that it has.
As this unreasoning political nonsense continues, the disruption is only going to increase, impoverishing a lot of people who are not particularly wealthy, and making a small number of people extremely rich.
If you follow the logic, where does it stop? You cannot fly, you cannot drive affordable cars, you cannot build houses, you cannot grow food, you cannot transport goods, you cannot heat your house, you cannot light a bonfire. How many jobs will be left? It’s back to the Stone Age, with the associated life expectancy. Unless you are a member of the elite, of course, in which case you can do what you like.
As this unreasoning political nonsense continues, the disruption is only going to increase, impoverishing a lot of people who are not particularly wealthy, and making a small number of people extremely rich.
If you follow the logic, where does it stop? You cannot fly, you cannot drive affordable cars, you cannot build houses, you cannot grow food, you cannot transport goods, you cannot heat your house, you cannot light a bonfire. How many jobs will be left? It’s back to the Stone Age, with the associated life expectancy. Unless you are a member of the elite, of course, in which case you can do what you like.
That's wise of them so that they can have enough finance for funding but by doing so they're cutting out some people's lives, here two things have to come in play, but we hope at the end it should all be worth with or else that'll be embarrassing. https://abokiplay.com/
thebestlittlecivicintheworld said:
People wondered how Audi could lease saloon cars so cheaply, this is why, they haven’t been making money, expect to see the a4 and a6 not replaced.
Cheap deals on the A4 & A6 have nothing to do with it. It doesn't sound as if you read the article linked by the OP.Audi is facing enormous costs of supposed environmental legislation imposed by the EU. They have taken a E700m hit for 'dieselgate' (which in my view was more of a regulatory ballsup than deceit by the manufacturers) and they are being forced to spend billions of Euros on electrification in the face of inadequate public demand. Frankly it is astonishing that they are still solvent. That is what is putting jobs at risk, not cheap lease deals.
At some point the big German manufacturers are going to go under and require to be nationalised to give them access to government printed money, or they are going to have to stand and fight. What they are now doing, in my view, is telling the German politicians, and the German nation as a whole, that the political victimisation of the car industry is going to have to stop or it is going to have serious real world consequences.
I am playing my part by buying a large V8 Biturbo powered AMG model, and I regard that as an extremely far sighted, moral, public spirited action.
Dave Hedgehog said:
cardigankid said:
Sure, everyone's got billions to blow on EV gambles. I bet the people who will lose their jobs will be pleased.
you would think a large premium profitable car maker would have some cash reserves, VW has a huge amount
Maybe you misunderstand me.
My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
cardigankid said:
Maybe you misunderstand me.
My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
That's just not the case. VW set out to cheat the system and deliberately mislead the test. It was a pre determined attempt to frig the system, and no other manufacture went anywhere near as far as to write code to alter the emmsions once a test condition had been recognized by its ECU..My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
I just don't see German cars as wonderful at all, they all (except Mercedes) figure at the bottom of the industry reliability studies such as the last JD power and the design language these days is awful.
cardigankid said:
At some point the big German manufacturers are going to go under and require to be nationalised to give them access to government printed money, or they are going to have to stand and fight. What they are now doing, in my view, is telling the German politicians, and the German nation as a whole, that the political victimisation of the car industry is going to have to stop or it is going to have serious real world consequences.
ahhh but according to ze EU rules state aid is not allowed....Looks like an offer of early retirement rather than traditional redundancies.
I think the truth is more likely to be that that this is a headcount reduction following reduced growth in the economy that had the convenient scapegoat of blaming EVs, politically people can't be 'anti EVs' so puts Audi in a reasonably positive light from a marketing point of view.
I think the truth is more likely to be that that this is a headcount reduction following reduced growth in the economy that had the convenient scapegoat of blaming EVs, politically people can't be 'anti EVs' so puts Audi in a reasonably positive light from a marketing point of view.
Dave Hedgehog said:
seams quite extreme, do they not have a large cash pot like VW?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50563254
At least the media have stopped shouting Brexit every time job losses are mentioned!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50563254
TX.
Edit - £billions being spent on EV and autonomous driving etc ... how hilarious if demand keeps dropping off because most don't want the tech.
Edited by Terminator X on Thursday 9th January 14:56
irocfan said:
cardigankid said:
At some point the big German manufacturers are going to go under and require to be nationalised to give them access to government printed money, or they are going to have to stand and fight. What they are now doing, in my view, is telling the German politicians, and the German nation as a whole, that the political victimisation of the car industry is going to have to stop or it is going to have serious real world consequences.
ahhh but according to ze EU rules state aid is not allowed....jl34 said:
cardigankid said:
Maybe you misunderstand me.
My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
That's just not the case. VW set out to cheat the system and deliberately mislead the test. It was a pre determined attempt to frig the system, and no other manufacture went anywhere near as far as to write code to alter the emmsions once a test condition had been recognized by its ECU..My old grandfather used to say, 'ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer'. The EU set up a silly regulatory regime, and the car manufacturers played it. That's all. Not just VW, all of them, and what got them in the end was American lawyers looking for a big stationary asset rich target. We will all pay for that in the end.
Was there actually anything wrong with our cars. No, they are wonderful, at least the German ones, the DPF's work, the performance and economy compared with older models is extraordinary, and as for CO2 emissions, let Greta fret about it, it doesn't really matter in the real world. You check it out, you test drive it, the MPG is what it is. I have never met an enrage VW owner telling me he was conned into buying the car.
The trouble as so often is politicians and their overeducated lapdogs setting up overcomplex systems without really fully understanding the issues.
I just don't see German cars as wonderful at all, they all (except Mercedes) figure at the bottom of the industry reliability studies such as the last JD power and the design language these days is awful.
I have had British cars, French cars, American cars and German cars. I have colleagues who own Jags who have no end of trouble with their DPF’s. Sorry but German is best. I have a BMW 520d, and you know what? It’s perfect in every measurable way. And I like the way it looks, unlike the current XF. The C and E class Merck’s aren’t bad looking cars either. I never even looked at it’s CO2 rating or even it’s estimated mpg. It has never let me down in 60,000 miles, snow hail or shine. JD can do what they like with their survey. I believe my own experience.
cardigankid said:
So, you are faced with a test condition and you set the car up to pass the test. Have you ever sat an exam? Do you know what is meant by exam technique?
The difference between exam technique and VW's cheating-code is that the latter was, err, cheating... They identified a test condition and put the drivetrain into an otherwise unattainable condition just to pass.If you were faced with an exam and the only way you could pass was to cheat by pasting-in answers you don't understand, then you aren't competent to do the exam.
Likewise if VW couldn't build a diesel that could pass in real-World conditions then they should have stuck to petrol.
Edited by FA57REN on Tuesday 21st January 09:43
cardigankid said:
So, you are faced with a test condition and you set the car up to pass the test. Have you ever sat an exam? Do you know what is meant by exam technique? It looks very bad in the PC witch hunt atmosphere of hindsight where the rest of us are all perfect goody-goodies.
I have had British cars, French cars, American cars and German cars. I have colleagues who own Jags who have no end of trouble with their DPF’s. Sorry but German is best. I have a BMW 520d, and you know what? It’s perfect in every measurable way. And I like the way it looks, unlike the current XF. The C and E class Merck’s aren’t bad looking cars either. I never even looked at it’s CO2 rating or even it’s estimated mpg. It has never let me down in 60,000 miles, snow hail or shine. JD can do what they like with their survey. I believe my own experience.
No they didn't set up the car to pass by legal means, it was totally illegal and quite different to tuning a car to give a good result at an exam.I have had British cars, French cars, American cars and German cars. I have colleagues who own Jags who have no end of trouble with their DPF’s. Sorry but German is best. I have a BMW 520d, and you know what? It’s perfect in every measurable way. And I like the way it looks, unlike the current XF. The C and E class Merck’s aren’t bad looking cars either. I never even looked at it’s CO2 rating or even it’s estimated mpg. It has never let me down in 60,000 miles, snow hail or shine. JD can do what they like with their survey. I believe my own experience.
As for your 520D you must have been incredibly lucky your timing chain on your N47 engine didn't break as it did for many others, causing it to get onto BBC's watchdog. JD powers results are based on facts not blind loyalty. I don't doubt you may have had a good experience with your German cars but clearly many haven't otherwise they would have been towards the top of the list instead of languishing at the bottom for the last 2 years.
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