Metro VVC conversion
Discussion
You need to tone up your cheek muscells due to the amount of smiling you'll be doing.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&am...
Can be a D.I.Y job. I'd use a Turbo VVC from a MGZR and turn the boost up as well.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&am...
Can be a D.I.Y job. I'd use a Turbo VVC from a MGZR and turn the boost up as well.
I've no connection with them, but Talon might do just what you're after:
Talon 100R
They apparently do a more extreme trackday version too - should be good for a grin!
Talon 100R
They apparently do a more extreme trackday version too - should be good for a grin!
I'd say get a mems3 VVC Engine with the full 160hp which should also have the later head gasket and 52MM Aluminium TB. Little more wiring but the best of the bunch, you want the 5as and corresponding fob too. You will have to use the R65 gearbox as will already be present with the metro. This is OK, but the best box is the R65U which is slightly uprated and stronger. Can be found in the 1.6 & 1.4 bubble rovers (rover 25?). The PG1 box will be too big and get more involved, it's also heavier. Stronger though, but it's a light car with small wheels so a R65U will be fine. You don't want one out of a later 1.6 car like a MGF/TF as it may be a IB5 which is a ford gearbox that rover used. Of course, you can just stick with the box you've got which will be an R65, dunno if it'll be the uprated one though. Next thing, starter motors..... the VVC engine is bigger, obviously... longer stroke, it also is higher compression. This means that the 1.8VVC tends to struggle to start with a R65 std metro starter. Not just because the engine is a longer stroke and of higher compression, but also because the flywheel is small... effectively gearing the starter down making it harder to turn the engine. There is a 0.7KW (standard) and a 0.8KW which is better. I found another 0.9KW, a bosch starter... spins it for fun. Fit this and a nice thick set of battery cables and you're sorted. Part no..
RB-STAR0002 BOSCH 106 Series
0.9KW/12V, CCW, 9-Tooth Pinion
ROVER
OE Nos: 001 106 016;
Ummm, I would fit a remote thermostat as precaution, but with the engine and rad being in the front of the car unlike in a MGF there will be much less thermal shock, plus the head gasket is better like aforementioned on the later engine anyway. Oh and the VVC160 has a water to oil cooler to keep the head and block the same temp to stop warping, as standard.
Probs other things to consider but that's all I can think of for now.
EDIT: I assumed you'd be doing the conversion yourself... anyway... all useful info!
RB-STAR0002 BOSCH 106 Series
0.9KW/12V, CCW, 9-Tooth Pinion
ROVER
OE Nos: 001 106 016;
Ummm, I would fit a remote thermostat as precaution, but with the engine and rad being in the front of the car unlike in a MGF there will be much less thermal shock, plus the head gasket is better like aforementioned on the later engine anyway. Oh and the VVC160 has a water to oil cooler to keep the head and block the same temp to stop warping, as standard.
Probs other things to consider but that's all I can think of for now.
EDIT: I assumed you'd be doing the conversion yourself... anyway... all useful info!
Edited by Yazza54 on Thursday 2nd December 12:50
www.mgbreaker.co.uk are based in Peterborough and can sell you all the parts you need. A Tf rear subframe, VVC and non-VVC box (they're stronger). All you have to do is cut a hole in the boot floor and mid-mount the engine in a hommage to the 6R4. 
My son who runs the Metropower website currently has two VVC Rovers, one his Rover Metro which the family bought new in 1993 when it was a humble 1.1c runabout ... c for carb. The car is faster than his Lotus Elise .... in a straight line...
Lots of useful information on Metropower.
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Lots of useful information on Metropower.
..
I bought a second hand box to rebuild and fit when I was fitting my new clutch and flywheel.. The box had the Bosch starter fitted. This one..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-25-45-1-4-1-6-16V-1999...
Never had a problem starting since I fitted the new box with the Bosch starter it came with. Make sure you have a decent battery and nice fat cables.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-25-45-1-4-1-6-16V-1999...
Never had a problem starting since I fitted the new box with the Bosch starter it came with. Make sure you have a decent battery and nice fat cables.
Ok i had to join just to reply as there is a lot of incorrect information here
Firstly go to www.metropower.org.uk and join up, everyone is friendly and will answer your questions
Liquid Knight, they never did a VVC Turbo in any of the MG or Rover cars it was a 1.8 non vvc they turbo'd. There are a couple of VVC turbos as aftermarket but they are not the easiest to do as Turbo Technics found out
Yazza54, R65U is fine for a VVC conversion and may last but they are hit and miss though (mine did 5 laps of the ring with no issues). They were fitted to later Rover 100's as std and inorder for the VVC and r65u to fit you will need the 1.6 bubble rover 200 flywheel and clutch. The PG1 box is the one to use, and can be used either with a MGF or TF (if you want to go springs not hydragas)subframe that needs a couple of mods with a grinder or a bracket welding onto the Metro Subframe. Then use MGF driveshafts as they are a direct fit. Using the PG1 with c6 gearset is similar ratios to the R65U. With the PG1 you can easily add a torsen ATB diff which will help traction. The PG1 gear selector will need changing from a 200 again and needs to be cut, shortened and welded in.
The R65(U) starter has no problems starting the VVC engine either as the 1.6 flywheel is smaller
MEMS2J 143 vvc is the easier to fit but the MEMS3 160 engine can be mapped and was fitted as std with the metal 52mm throttle body. Both give roughly the same power output with an air filter, 52mm tb and decent exhaust
No need for a remote thermostat use the PRT from the landrover
You will need to mod the Rover100/Metro loom to use the 1.8 vvc but this is easy to do, and its easier to start with an MPI K series Metro / 100
You will then have a car with close to 200bhp/tonne 0-60 in under 6 seconds and 140mph that will do a qtr mile in 14.5 roughly the same as a RS Focus
The sky is then the limit as to what power you want, the VVC can be tuned to 200bhp but the mechs limit the revs to 7500. Above this you need solid lifters and cams but 240bhp is the norm for a high power N/A 1.8 K-series engine
If you want serious power the k-series can be turbo'd, one Metro has just shy of 300bhp
Firstly go to www.metropower.org.uk and join up, everyone is friendly and will answer your questions
Liquid Knight, they never did a VVC Turbo in any of the MG or Rover cars it was a 1.8 non vvc they turbo'd. There are a couple of VVC turbos as aftermarket but they are not the easiest to do as Turbo Technics found out
Yazza54, R65U is fine for a VVC conversion and may last but they are hit and miss though (mine did 5 laps of the ring with no issues). They were fitted to later Rover 100's as std and inorder for the VVC and r65u to fit you will need the 1.6 bubble rover 200 flywheel and clutch. The PG1 box is the one to use, and can be used either with a MGF or TF (if you want to go springs not hydragas)subframe that needs a couple of mods with a grinder or a bracket welding onto the Metro Subframe. Then use MGF driveshafts as they are a direct fit. Using the PG1 with c6 gearset is similar ratios to the R65U. With the PG1 you can easily add a torsen ATB diff which will help traction. The PG1 gear selector will need changing from a 200 again and needs to be cut, shortened and welded in.
The R65(U) starter has no problems starting the VVC engine either as the 1.6 flywheel is smaller
MEMS2J 143 vvc is the easier to fit but the MEMS3 160 engine can be mapped and was fitted as std with the metal 52mm throttle body. Both give roughly the same power output with an air filter, 52mm tb and decent exhaust
No need for a remote thermostat use the PRT from the landrover
You will need to mod the Rover100/Metro loom to use the 1.8 vvc but this is easy to do, and its easier to start with an MPI K series Metro / 100
You will then have a car with close to 200bhp/tonne 0-60 in under 6 seconds and 140mph that will do a qtr mile in 14.5 roughly the same as a RS Focus
The sky is then the limit as to what power you want, the VVC can be tuned to 200bhp but the mechs limit the revs to 7500. Above this you need solid lifters and cams but 240bhp is the norm for a high power N/A 1.8 K-series engine
If you want serious power the k-series can be turbo'd, one Metro has just shy of 300bhp
Pg1 is the best box but it'd be difficult to get it to fit in a metro, it's physically bigger and heavier. If the car doesn't weigh much you're fine with a r65u as it won't be too stressed and standard r65 ratios are closer than standard pg1.
240 bhp k series is possible if you want to be rebuilding the thing every 5 minutes. I got the impression the original poster was talking about a occasional track day/road car... Not a full blown racing moneypit which is what a 240bhp k series would be!! Forced induction... I know of one supercharged k series that had a serious amount spent on it, kept blowing head gaskets. Had all the right gaskets, professionally assembled, only low boost at 200bhp... Couldn't sort it and ditched it for vtec power because he'd already wasted enough money.
You say it'll start fine with a smaller flywheel.. Hmm methinks you need to get on your push bike and try to set off in 6th
Smaller gear will spin faster eventually when it gets going but an r65 starter on a vvc with that little flywheel struggles to actually initially get going. It's a common issue with r65 vvc combos on kit cars and metros.
240 bhp k series is possible if you want to be rebuilding the thing every 5 minutes. I got the impression the original poster was talking about a occasional track day/road car... Not a full blown racing moneypit which is what a 240bhp k series would be!! Forced induction... I know of one supercharged k series that had a serious amount spent on it, kept blowing head gaskets. Had all the right gaskets, professionally assembled, only low boost at 200bhp... Couldn't sort it and ditched it for vtec power because he'd already wasted enough money.
You say it'll start fine with a smaller flywheel.. Hmm methinks you need to get on your push bike and try to set off in 6th
Smaller gear will spin faster eventually when it gets going but an r65 starter on a vvc with that little flywheel struggles to actually initially get going. It's a common issue with r65 vvc combos on kit cars and metros.
Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 12th November 09:32
djwilma said:
Liquid Knight, they never did a VVC Turbo in any of the MG or Rover cars it was a 1.8 non vvc they turbo'd. There are a couple of VVC turbos as aftermarket but they are not the easiest to do as Turbo Technics found out
Welcome to Pistonheads. I meant to put 1.8K turbo and not VVC. typo rather than an deliberate attempt to mislead. Personally I'd go for a T series on an original MGF box or to keep the costs down find an accident damaged MR2 turbo and use the bits from that. Yazza54 said:
Pg1 is the best box but it'd be difficult to get it to fit in a metro, it's physically bigger and heavier. If the car doesn't weigh much you're fine with a r65u as it won't be too stressed and standard r65 ratios are closer than standard pg1.
Ok once again the PG1 bolts straight in its fitted as std in an MGF which has basically the same subframe. no issues with space what so everI would also like to ask how many VVC conversions you have done in a metro / rover 100 as you are giving incorrect information
However a R65U will be fine (as long as you dont give it full beans in reverse) i know of one fitted to a turbo k series 1.8 with 200bhp in a metro however the owner doesnt think it will last
Yazza54 said:
240 bhp k series is possible if you want to be rebuilding the thing every 5 minutes. I got the impression the original poster was talking about a occasional track day/road car... Not a full blown racing moneypit which is what a 240bhp k series would be!! Forced induction... I know of one supercharged k series that had a serious amount spent on it, kept blowing head gaskets. Had all the right gaskets, professionally assembled, only low boost at 200bhp... Couldn't sort it and ditched it for vtec power because he'd already wasted enough money.
Then whoever built the forced induction engine knows nothing about k series engines and probably used the MLS gasket rather than the elastomer and should move to simpler v-tecs. I have 300bhp from a turbo k that has been running for 5 years and only one HGF caused by the idiot driving, me. video is here it has a PG1 from a 220 turbo, which is bigger and heavier than the std pg1 it fitted no problems using the MGF subframe.....again note no problems fitting the PG1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyl9IBJDYGk
Yazza54 said:
You say it'll start fine with a smaller flywheel.. Hmm methinks you need to get on your push bike and try to set off in 6th
Smaller gear will spin faster eventually when it gets going but an r65 starter on a vvc with that little flywheel struggles to actually initially get going. It's a common issue with r65 vvc combos on kit cars and metros.
Oops my bad always thought a faster spinning engine helps to start a car, but it also depends on the no of teeth of the starter too. Either way it will happily turn over a VVC. All R65U VVC engined metros use the std starter and no-one has an issue. Smaller gear will spin faster eventually when it gets going but an r65 starter on a vvc with that little flywheel struggles to actually initially get going. It's a common issue with r65 vvc combos on kit cars and metros.
Can i also ask how many VVC conversions you have done to metros
Liquid Knight, thanks for the hello. The t series would be a nice engine for the metro, but only as a mid engine rwd, of which i know of only one, as it is a very heavy engine in comparison to the K series so the metro would handle like a boat
Edited by djwilma on Saturday 12th November 22:54
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