SD1 Vitesse / VDP - usable every day driver? Info needed!
Discussion
Hello all,
First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful?
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform?
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful?
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform?
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
Benny Dub said:
Hello all,
First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful? YES approx 155bhp
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform? It was okay back in the day, but starting to get outdsted by the end of production when others were moving to 4 speed
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate - No idea, i guess in theory should be relatively straightforward, but it would be the little bits that complicate, ie pedal box, master cylinder etc. As far as i am aware, floorpan/transmission tunnel,is same on auto and manual, unlike earlier P6 V8s
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
5th gear approx 30mph/1000rev, not miles away from your Chimaera. Manual V8 was highest geared manual car when initially launched. From memory, auto was about 24mph/1000 in top
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
3.5 is, allegedly the best block as some later 4.0 and 4.6 suffered cracking due to reduced wall thickness. However, also a school of thought that Range Rovers were particularly badly affected due to lean fuelling. Whether that's true, i don't know. The twin plenum vitesses really need a change of cam to get maximum benefit, but some will argue single plenum is more tuneable. I don't think there's anything 'easy', otherwise Rover would have done it, but work on heads, freer flowing exhaust is probably the easiest, as is fitting an electric fan.
can't comment on ease of dropping in a 4.6, but even if EFI is too difficult, could still run it with a decent american type csrb, or a set of Webers, but then you can blow your fuel consumption out of the window with the latter. Sounds good, though????
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
Can't really remember. It seemed okay when current, but things have moved on since then
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
I used to get between 20-24mpg, but then i wasn't doing 100mph. With a manual, car well tuned and motorwy cruise, i would think top 20s wouldn't be unrealistic
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
VDPs ran on 14", 195/70 from memory. Vitesses and VDP EFIs 15", 205/60(?)
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
They have rev counter, oil pressure, voltmeter, water temp and fuel. Issue is reliability of senders. Dash does have a flat area where extra dials could be installed, but i haven't seen it done
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
Most V8s, except some of early ones, will have elec windows, all V8s have power steering and central locking. Whether they all work is a different issue, as the central locking, particularly on the early ones, was known to play up.
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
Eta: I've added some comments above, so that I could remember the questions but I couldn't change font colour- comments drawn from memory and based on the fact that I owned 2 V8s, both autos, when they were current. I haven't driven one for 25years, so comparison with today's cars might be a case of rose tinted specs..First time posting here in years and years, I have recently started looking at SD1's on eBay and the like and am looking for some info. I've gone a fair bit of googling and have tried posting on some Rover and SD1 specific forums but not had a response as of yet, so please bear with me as this may turn into war and peace, I just want to fully explain my current stance and predicament.
Currently my daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes CLK 230. I've had it for 3 years now and I'm starting to wonder what to replace it with. It was supposed to be a cheap stop gap until I could afford something a bit newer and nicer but alas for various reasons I haven't been able to buy anything newer and nicer and I've also very much enjoyed owning it!
However, my annual mileage is now around or under 10,000 miles. I have a commute of under 3 miles each way, I live within 10 miles of pretty much any amenity I often use - shops, cinema etc - and although I still use my car for work, whereas a couple of years ago I would regularly have to do trips of up to 400 miles a day, I now rarely venture out of a 50 miles radius of our office, and even then it's only once every couple of weeks.
I'm therefore now thinking I would like something a bit more interesting as my everyday car, and a nice usable classic really appeals to me.
I already have a '78 Volvo 244 DL in lovely 70's brown which I was gifted by my grandparents who've owned it since new, but this sits in a barn having not been MOT'd in years, and have some fairly nasty rear aches.
I also have an '85 Mini that is an ongoing project (it needs a full strip down and rebuild really but I'm too scared to start ripping it apart!)
One of the great things about my Merc which is partly why I've kept it so long, is that although it's a fairly hefty old barge, it's still fast enough to have fun with and handles decently well.
Any car that replaces it therefore will need to demonstrate abilities to a similar standard - and that's the Mini and the Volvo out of the picture!
The Merc is around 195bhp or so, and does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds. Not exactly a rocket ship. However, it will happily sit at around 100mph for extended periods of time at under 4000rpm, and I've had it at 140mph without breaking too much of a sweat. This was all on a trip to the Nurburgring a couple of years ago where it performed well enough.
A key thing for me is having a long top gear and the ability to sit at high speed (90 - 100) with little stress and at low revs - this has ruled out the car I've been toying with getting for ages - a ZT190 - as it is doing almost 4000rpm at 80!
I also have a very limited budget. I haven't properly figured out the numbers but I would imagine by the time I put some money together and sell the now fairly scruffy looking Merc I will probably have between 1500 and 2000 to spend.
All of the above mean that a nice SD1 would be a good choice. From what I've heard they are comfy, reliable and handle well, and depending on which one you buy, reasonably good in a straight line.
I therefore have a few questions which I'm struggling to comprehensively answer through hours of googling.
1) Which should I buy? I'm looking at Vitesse's and Vanden Plas'. The VDP seems to have much better availability and therefore I guess on average is cheaper to buy?
2) If I were to get a VDP:
- I read that the VDP EFi has the same power as the Vitesse - but what about the carb VDP's - are they less powerful? YES approx 155bhp
- I'm not dead against auto's as my Merc has one but it has a pretty good one, the idea of an 80's 3 speed fills me with dread - how does it perform? It was okay back in the day, but starting to get outdsted by the end of production when others were moving to 4 speed
- If the auto is a shocker, how difficult is it to convert to manual? I'm not very competent with the spanners but have reasonable theoretical knowledge and a trusted mechanic that charges me a very reasonable hourly rate - No idea, i guess in theory should be relatively straightforward, but it would be the little bits that complicate, ie pedal box, master cylinder etc. As far as i am aware, floorpan/transmission tunnel,is same on auto and manual, unlike earlier P6 V8s
3) As mentioned above it's important for me to be able to cruise at high speed without feeling like I'm stressing the car. How do these cope at 90 - 100mph for prolonged periods? What's the gearing like in 5th on the Vitesse and 3rd on the VDP? Does the VDP have overdrive? How much throttle does it need to maintain these speeds? I think it's about a quarter to a third throttle in the Merc.
5th gear approx 30mph/1000rev, not miles away from your Chimaera. Manual V8 was highest geared manual car when initially launched. From memory, auto was about 24mph/1000 in top
4) How easy is it to get a bit more power from that 3.5? Ok I know that everyone says the Rover V8 is easily and massively tuneable, but I'm wondering what is possible for just a few hundred quid. Assuming I get myself a healthy runner which gets fairly close to the original 190bhp on a dyno, are there any easy and cheap things that can be done to release a few extra ponies? I hear that, like the K series, all RV8's have the same engine mounts and possibly even bell housing mounts, so swapping between them physically is easy - also Range Rover 4.6's seem cheap and plentiful and are rated at around 230bhp - is dropping one of these in realistic without masses of work? Can you re-use the original EFi system? Are there any other easy gains? I used to have a TVR Chimaera and seem to remember that cams were the real starting point for getting more power and a decent one could release 15+ bhp and still remain nicely driveable every day - is this the case?
3.5 is, allegedly the best block as some later 4.0 and 4.6 suffered cracking due to reduced wall thickness. However, also a school of thought that Range Rovers were particularly badly affected due to lean fuelling. Whether that's true, i don't know. The twin plenum vitesses really need a change of cam to get maximum benefit, but some will argue single plenum is more tuneable. I don't think there's anything 'easy', otherwise Rover would have done it, but work on heads, freer flowing exhaust is probably the easiest, as is fitting an electric fan.
can't comment on ease of dropping in a 4.6, but even if EFI is too difficult, could still run it with a decent american type csrb, or a set of Webers, but then you can blow your fuel consumption out of the window with the latter. Sounds good, though????
5) What is the stereo like? I'm not expecting much but I'm comfortable replacing the head unit and speakers. What I'm hoping for though (assuming a previous owner hasn't already upgraded) is that the infrastructure (speaker cables etc.) is of decent enough quality that simply upgrading the speakers and head unit will be enough. I read that some models have 4 speakers and some have 2 - is this the case and if so, which ones?
Can't really remember. It seemed okay when current, but things have moved on since then
6) What's fuel economy like? - Again I'm not expecting miracles, but what can I reasonably hope for day to day? Like I said earlier most of my journeys are sub ten miles, and when a car is fully warm I do tend to drive quite enthusiastically. I currently get around 22mpg day to day in my Merc and between 28 and 35mpg on a decent long run with some dual carriageway / motorway work.
I used to get between 20-24mpg, but then i wasn't doing 100mph. With a manual, car well tuned and motorwy cruise, i would think top 20s wouldn't be unrealistic
7) What wheel options are there? I do quite like the standard Vitesse wheels and most VDP's I've seen seem to have the same, but what are the options if I want some a bit bigger / wider etc.?
VDPs ran on 14", 195/70 from memory. Vitesses and VDP EFIs 15", 205/60(?)
8) What instruments are there? If I'm running a 30+ year old car, I'm going to want to be comfortable that it's healthy - are there oil pressure / temperature gauges? Voltmeter? If not is there anywhere on the dash (like on a mini) you can easily install some?
They have rev counter, oil pressure, voltmeter, water temp and fuel. Issue is reliability of senders. Dash does have a flat area where extra dials could be installed, but i haven't seen it done
9) What other modern day comforts do they have? Power steering? Air con? Electric Windows? Central Locking?
Most V8s, except some of early ones, will have elec windows, all V8s have power steering and central locking. Whether they all work is a different issue, as the central locking, particularly on the early ones, was known to play up.
To summarise, going from what I've blabbed on about in probably far too much detail, should I buy one? I am very tempted by the 4.3 version of my Mercedes which will be faster and cheaper than a decent SD1, and with the same lovely V8 rumble - should I just forget the classic and go for that?
Cheers
Ben
Presumably, you've tried the sd1 club forum? I would have thought someone there would try and persuade you.
Build quality won't match your MB. Personally, I would think fine for everyday use, but I wouldn't be looking at a 30-40 year old car for high speed driving,ie here you mention 90-100mph unless I was absolutely sure of every single mechanical item; too many instances of items failing when under load, either due to general wear and tear or hidden corrosion.
Edited by tonys on Monday 4th May 19:56
Thanks very much Tony, I appreciate you taking the time to read it all!
I understand what you're saying about the high speed stuff, I've become very mechanically conscious in the last couple o years and find my senses for things like wobbles / noises are fairly well tuned now. I don't often go up to those speeds but when I do I like the car to be comfortable. Even with the auto gearing sounds it like it would be assuming all components were in good condition - don't want a wheel coming off at those speeds!
Fuel consumption sounds good, I can live with low 20's day to day and high twenties on a run.
Great news about the dials too, and thanks for clarifying the carb VDP's output - I'll make sure to stick to looking at either the Vitesse's or the VDP EFi's.
This is all sounding good so far - more comments welcome though folks!
I understand what you're saying about the high speed stuff, I've become very mechanically conscious in the last couple o years and find my senses for things like wobbles / noises are fairly well tuned now. I don't often go up to those speeds but when I do I like the car to be comfortable. Even with the auto gearing sounds it like it would be assuming all components were in good condition - don't want a wheel coming off at those speeds!
Fuel consumption sounds good, I can live with low 20's day to day and high twenties on a run.
Great news about the dials too, and thanks for clarifying the carb VDP's output - I'll make sure to stick to looking at either the Vitesse's or the VDP EFi's.
This is all sounding good so far - more comments welcome though folks!
SD1: Fine for everyday use, if used and maintained. 100mph is not an issue, especially for any SD1 with a V8.
Have done this with my lowly manual 2300S (still on the road and drives as sold as back then) for hours in Germany, very comfortable and relaxed drive.
Automatics have a lot more revs at those speeds, which owners found annoying, even a few that either converted to manual or put a more modern 4-speed in.
It is to find a good car as rust is never your friend.
On V8 SD1s the original rear dampers are self-levelling. Difficult to replace and conversion to standard is possible (see rimmers website, they are also the main address to find parts and about everything is available for the MKII). Parts, especially service ones can be found for reasonable prices. In general the SD1 is a simple car and easy to work on. Electrics can be erratic, but these are very simple by modern standards.
Vitesse only cloth interior, VDP leather available on later cars, not the early ones.
Most later V8 SD1s came with aircon, many don't work after all those years....
As you have had a TVR with a RV8 based engine, you already have a good start regarding RV8 information.
And for power perhaps a 4litre TVR fettled engine and aftermarket ECU could be a fine combination.
On my TVR with 3.5 RV8 I use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and K&N airfilter. Think it is the easy and cheap route to a bit more power and responsiveness. More, like cams, larger engines, upgraded injection systems and aftermarket ECU: you can spend what you want, but never cheap.
For more information have a look on www.roversd1club.net with very helpful and knowledgeable people.
Or even can find a nice SD1, there was a very nice Vitesse on not so long ago.
Rob
Have done this with my lowly manual 2300S (still on the road and drives as sold as back then) for hours in Germany, very comfortable and relaxed drive.
Automatics have a lot more revs at those speeds, which owners found annoying, even a few that either converted to manual or put a more modern 4-speed in.
It is to find a good car as rust is never your friend.
On V8 SD1s the original rear dampers are self-levelling. Difficult to replace and conversion to standard is possible (see rimmers website, they are also the main address to find parts and about everything is available for the MKII). Parts, especially service ones can be found for reasonable prices. In general the SD1 is a simple car and easy to work on. Electrics can be erratic, but these are very simple by modern standards.
Vitesse only cloth interior, VDP leather available on later cars, not the early ones.
Most later V8 SD1s came with aircon, many don't work after all those years....
As you have had a TVR with a RV8 based engine, you already have a good start regarding RV8 information.
And for power perhaps a 4litre TVR fettled engine and aftermarket ECU could be a fine combination.
On my TVR with 3.5 RV8 I use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and K&N airfilter. Think it is the easy and cheap route to a bit more power and responsiveness. More, like cams, larger engines, upgraded injection systems and aftermarket ECU: you can spend what you want, but never cheap.
For more information have a look on www.roversd1club.net with very helpful and knowledgeable people.
Or even can find a nice SD1, there was a very nice Vitesse on not so long ago.
Rob
Thanks very much for your input, once again this is all music to my ears!
So far it's looking good that EFi is definitely the way to go, and it sounds as if a manual will do everything I need in terms of performance, handling and return fuel economy that I'd be content with.
The rear suspension thing is interesting, I didn't know that. Quite a few I've seen seem to be lowered so I'm guessing a lot of these would've had the self-levelling stuff removed already?
Only real question mark at the moment is whether or not a manual conversion is worth the effort, or whether I should wait it out and adjust my budget slightly to accommodate a good, proper Vitesse.
Keep the comments coming folks it's all appreciated!
So far it's looking good that EFi is definitely the way to go, and it sounds as if a manual will do everything I need in terms of performance, handling and return fuel economy that I'd be content with.
The rear suspension thing is interesting, I didn't know that. Quite a few I've seen seem to be lowered so I'm guessing a lot of these would've had the self-levelling stuff removed already?
Only real question mark at the moment is whether or not a manual conversion is worth the effort, or whether I should wait it out and adjust my budget slightly to accommodate a good, proper Vitesse.
Keep the comments coming folks it's all appreciated!
Good to hear the enthusiasm goes up.
Vitesse is available for not a lot of money and will hold its value if the car is in a good condition and well maintained.
Would not go for a twin-plenum myself, premium price asked for those (is it a real one or not?), others think otherwise. Single plenum is good enough for a TVR, so.....
Cloth interior is not available, if anything needs to be replaced in that respect, and not since production stopped in '86.... Scrapyard etc is the address. Or as many do, buy a second for spares (one that cannot be rescued due to too much rot.....)
Rear suspension: with the selflevelers after some time or not ok, the rear is low. If ok, it is the up and down movement that gives the normal level. If replaced by standard shocks only it is low as the springs are too soft for a standard setup. Easy to correct by putting standard springs at the back. Many others are lowered, but the standard Vitesse height is lower than the VDP (non EFI) and I would not lower it further as the ride will not be Rover smooth. Ok for the odd trip, fast road or track use, not 'normal' every day use. But only my opinion.
Brakes can be upgraded, but for normal road use they are fine. Would use improved brake pads at the front, braided hoses, dot 5.1 brake fluid and upgraded rear shoes (yes drum brakes at the rear, but are fine). The likes of EBC or Mintex for example. Again good enough for everyday use.
Enjoy the hunt.
Rob
Vitesse is available for not a lot of money and will hold its value if the car is in a good condition and well maintained.
Would not go for a twin-plenum myself, premium price asked for those (is it a real one or not?), others think otherwise. Single plenum is good enough for a TVR, so.....
Cloth interior is not available, if anything needs to be replaced in that respect, and not since production stopped in '86.... Scrapyard etc is the address. Or as many do, buy a second for spares (one that cannot be rescued due to too much rot.....)
Rear suspension: with the selflevelers after some time or not ok, the rear is low. If ok, it is the up and down movement that gives the normal level. If replaced by standard shocks only it is low as the springs are too soft for a standard setup. Easy to correct by putting standard springs at the back. Many others are lowered, but the standard Vitesse height is lower than the VDP (non EFI) and I would not lower it further as the ride will not be Rover smooth. Ok for the odd trip, fast road or track use, not 'normal' every day use. But only my opinion.
Brakes can be upgraded, but for normal road use they are fine. Would use improved brake pads at the front, braided hoses, dot 5.1 brake fluid and upgraded rear shoes (yes drum brakes at the rear, but are fine). The likes of EBC or Mintex for example. Again good enough for everyday use.
Enjoy the hunt.
Rob
There must be something about TVR owners and SD1s, as I've had my Chimaera for well over 10 years and can't really decide what to replace it with, not that it gets much use these days, despite my best intentions.
I would stick to finding a decent manual if that's your preferred option, rather than converting an auto, unless you don't mind a fair bit of spannering and hassle.
You can get an auto Vitesse, but VDP EFIs were auto only, no manual option. I presume the thought was somebody who wanted a manual would go for the (slightly) cheaper Vitesse.
I agree that the TP Vitesses are a bit over-rated (certainly price-wise) compared to single plenum. 1984 model year saw introduction of deeper front spoiler and loss of fog lights, darker gloss wood trim and deletion of 'vitesse' decals and rear wheelarch 'spoilers/spats'
VDP EFIs used Vitesse wheels, but standard ride height, about 1" higher than Vitesse, and didn't have deeper front spoiler. Leather was standard on early (series 1.5 VDPs, which were carb. and VDP EFIs, with cloth no-cost option), although I think other later series 2 carb VDPs leather was an option.
If I had another one, which I would happily do if I didn't already have too many cars (according to the other half), the first thing I would do would be to fit a decent 15" aftermarket steering wheel. Personal thing, but I didn't like the series 1 / 1.5 quartic wheel, and wasn't that keen on the later series 2 wheel either.
As has been said, they are simple and straightforward mechanically, not unlike the RV8 TVRs in that respect.
Happy hunting.
I would stick to finding a decent manual if that's your preferred option, rather than converting an auto, unless you don't mind a fair bit of spannering and hassle.
You can get an auto Vitesse, but VDP EFIs were auto only, no manual option. I presume the thought was somebody who wanted a manual would go for the (slightly) cheaper Vitesse.
I agree that the TP Vitesses are a bit over-rated (certainly price-wise) compared to single plenum. 1984 model year saw introduction of deeper front spoiler and loss of fog lights, darker gloss wood trim and deletion of 'vitesse' decals and rear wheelarch 'spoilers/spats'
VDP EFIs used Vitesse wheels, but standard ride height, about 1" higher than Vitesse, and didn't have deeper front spoiler. Leather was standard on early (series 1.5 VDPs, which were carb. and VDP EFIs, with cloth no-cost option), although I think other later series 2 carb VDPs leather was an option.
If I had another one, which I would happily do if I didn't already have too many cars (according to the other half), the first thing I would do would be to fit a decent 15" aftermarket steering wheel. Personal thing, but I didn't like the series 1 / 1.5 quartic wheel, and wasn't that keen on the later series 2 wheel either.
As has been said, they are simple and straightforward mechanically, not unlike the RV8 TVRs in that respect.
Happy hunting.
Benny Dub said:
No I haven't to be fair, I'd like to have a go. Love the mk2 ZT and from what I've heard its great to drive.
Gearing sounds similar to my girlfriends ZR160 which really isnt pleasant on the motorway
Might be worth considering a 75 2.5 V6 then, it has the longer ratios by the looks of it. Gearing sounds similar to my girlfriends ZR160 which really isnt pleasant on the motorway
Just to say that I have recently started running a 1983 2600 SE manual as an (almost) daily. It is trouble free thus far (but I have only had it a few weeks) and great fun to drive.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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