Paging MGJohn - K-series coolant leak
Discussion
John, I know you're pretty clued up about this so I was wondering if you could help. My 75 1.8 non-turbo has had a coolant leak for a few months - about a pint every 500 miles or so, doesn't seem to be getting any worse, and doesn't seem to affect the performance. Temp gauge stays level but when the coolant is low the fan cuts in early, as it should I guess.
I've finally had a weekend day to pop the bonnet open and have a root around, and there are obvious signs of coolant spilling down the block at the front of the car on the gearbox end. I don't think it's coming from the head gasket (which is nice) but it looks like it's coming from a coolant outlet on the head on that corner. I've looked in the Haynes and on the internet but I can't seem to find out what it's called or what the part number for the gasket for that bit would be. Any ideas?
I've finally had a weekend day to pop the bonnet open and have a root around, and there are obvious signs of coolant spilling down the block at the front of the car on the gearbox end. I don't think it's coming from the head gasket (which is nice) but it looks like it's coming from a coolant outlet on the head on that corner. I've looked in the Haynes and on the internet but I can't seem to find out what it's called or what the part number for the gasket for that bit would be. Any ideas?
Hi,
From what you describe, its the coolant outlet elbow:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001685
The Gasket is item 13 on Rimmer Bros webpage, PET10042.
Elbow is probably fine, its the gasket or one of the coolant temp sensors that is leaking I expect.
OneJag (also owner of an MGF
)
From what you describe, its the coolant outlet elbow:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001685
The Gasket is item 13 on Rimmer Bros webpage, PET10042.
Elbow is probably fine, its the gasket or one of the coolant temp sensors that is leaking I expect.
OneJag (also owner of an MGF
)OneJag said:
Hi,
From what you describe, its the coolant outlet elbow:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001685
The Gasket is item 13 on Rimmer Bros webpage, PET10042.
Elbow is probably fine, its the gasket or one of the coolant temp sensors that is leaking I expect.
OneJag (also owner of an MGF )
Thanks. Looks like the gasket. From what you describe, its the coolant outlet elbow:
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001685
The Gasket is item 13 on Rimmer Bros webpage, PET10042.
Elbow is probably fine, its the gasket or one of the coolant temp sensors that is leaking I expect.
OneJag (also owner of an MGF
)Unfortunately, I had a look under the car and the big leak is the water pump. Booked into the garage a bit later this week, fingers crossed I don't boil it in the next three days...
Just spotted this. For those not familiar with the Coolant Elbow on these K-Series engines this is what it is. It houses both coolant temperature sensors :~
I bought a Rover 45 with the early stages of head gasket damage and after much headscratching, identified the coolant loss was from a badly fitted coolant elbow which allowed coolant to escape. That lead to over heating and that can damage .... The previous owner entrusted the job of fitting a new Exhaust Manifold Gasket to a garage which was incorrectly fitted. That stopped the Elbow seating fully and that's where the coolant escaped.
Another possible cause of coolant wetness in that area could be a worn Inlet Manifold Gasket [IMG]. Coolant can run round and down to the front of the engine in that area. With many heat-cold cycles and age these IMGs become perished, hard and lose their sealing properties. Fortunately they are not expensive and not difficult to fit even for the novice DIYer. This is where it is located :~
One thing worth mentioning, you may have more than one leak in your cooling system. In my limited experience with about twenty of these engines, a prime cause of coolant loss in these engines is a worn Water Pump. Unchecked, that leads to overheating and that will eventually damage the cylinder head gasket. The owner of this MG ZS 1.8 was professionally advised that her car had a "they all do that" HGF. They were wrong. The coolant loss was due to the early stages of a worn water pump. MG-R in their wisdom fitted an "Evaporator" to the bottom of later K-Series Water Pumps. These worked by trapping the first drops of escaping coolant from a wearing Water Pump and evaporating them away thus protecting the Timing Belt from possible harmful contamination. However this meant there were no tell tale drops of coolant under the car to alert the user something is leaking... This was that car's Water Pump. You can see the white residue of the evaporated coolant clearly around the evaporator bolt.
Fitted new pump :~
A new Water Pump ( cost £20 ) and three thousand miles later, coolant level has not moved a jot and no signs of cylinder head gasket damage.
Good luck. Let us know how you get on. That way we all can learn.
I bought a Rover 45 with the early stages of head gasket damage and after much headscratching, identified the coolant loss was from a badly fitted coolant elbow which allowed coolant to escape. That lead to over heating and that can damage .... The previous owner entrusted the job of fitting a new Exhaust Manifold Gasket to a garage which was incorrectly fitted. That stopped the Elbow seating fully and that's where the coolant escaped.
Another possible cause of coolant wetness in that area could be a worn Inlet Manifold Gasket [IMG]. Coolant can run round and down to the front of the engine in that area. With many heat-cold cycles and age these IMGs become perished, hard and lose their sealing properties. Fortunately they are not expensive and not difficult to fit even for the novice DIYer. This is where it is located :~
One thing worth mentioning, you may have more than one leak in your cooling system. In my limited experience with about twenty of these engines, a prime cause of coolant loss in these engines is a worn Water Pump. Unchecked, that leads to overheating and that will eventually damage the cylinder head gasket. The owner of this MG ZS 1.8 was professionally advised that her car had a "they all do that" HGF. They were wrong. The coolant loss was due to the early stages of a worn water pump. MG-R in their wisdom fitted an "Evaporator" to the bottom of later K-Series Water Pumps. These worked by trapping the first drops of escaping coolant from a wearing Water Pump and evaporating them away thus protecting the Timing Belt from possible harmful contamination. However this meant there were no tell tale drops of coolant under the car to alert the user something is leaking... This was that car's Water Pump. You can see the white residue of the evaporated coolant clearly around the evaporator bolt.
Fitted new pump :~
A new Water Pump ( cost £20 ) and three thousand miles later, coolant level has not moved a jot and no signs of cylinder head gasket damage.
Good luck. Let us know how you get on. That way we all can learn.
I'd do it myself if I had somewhere to do it, but since I don't, it's in the garage for a service. Mechanic there spotted the coolant elbow leak (which is not too bad), the waterpump leak (which I knew about and was expecting), but also another leak that's manifesting itself at the front of the engine at the head gasket level. He thought probably HGF but I'm not convinced; even if it is, it's just a water channel leak, and not a bad one either.
He suggested K-seal. I said I'd monitor it for a while; I think it'll be a very minor loss of water that can be managed, even if it is the HG, but it'll be good to run it for a bit and check what sort of coolant loss I'm now getting
But I'll give the inlet manifold gasket a go on the weekend I think - does it need a full coolant drain down or can I get away with doing a partial drain somewhere? I have a stupidly steep driveway, and mucking about underneath to do fluids is a pain.
He suggested K-seal. I said I'd monitor it for a while; I think it'll be a very minor loss of water that can be managed, even if it is the HG, but it'll be good to run it for a bit and check what sort of coolant loss I'm now getting
But I'll give the inlet manifold gasket a go on the weekend I think - does it need a full coolant drain down or can I get away with doing a partial drain somewhere? I have a stupidly steep driveway, and mucking about underneath to do fluids is a pain.
No need for a full coolant drain at when renewing the Inlet Manifold Gasket. Face car on the downhill slope so that the IM is higher that t'other way. The simply undo the IM bolts and nuts and carefully pull the IM away from the head.
There will be some coolant loss, but not much. One word of warning, some coolant may enter the cylinders. To avoid any problems until you've taken the following measures, here's what I do.
When you've renewed the IMG and it's all back together, remove both Coil Packs and all four Sparks Plugs. Then with plugs removed, get someone to spin the starter motor briefly for say two-three seconds. That should expel any coolant which may have entered one of the cylinders. In my limited experience, it's usually Cylinder No. 4 ( the one nearest gearbox end of engine ) which will see some coolant expelled.
Then reassemble, top up and bleed cooling system. Keep and eye on that coolant level and temperature gauge as continuing losses could become harmful until that Water Pump is renewed.
There will be some coolant loss, but not much. One word of warning, some coolant may enter the cylinders. To avoid any problems until you've taken the following measures, here's what I do.
When you've renewed the IMG and it's all back together, remove both Coil Packs and all four Sparks Plugs. Then with plugs removed, get someone to spin the starter motor briefly for say two-three seconds. That should expel any coolant which may have entered one of the cylinders. In my limited experience, it's usually Cylinder No. 4 ( the one nearest gearbox end of engine ) which will see some coolant expelled.
Then reassemble, top up and bleed cooling system. Keep and eye on that coolant level and temperature gauge as continuing losses could become harmful until that Water Pump is renewed.
MGJohn said:
No need for a full coolant drain at when renewing the Inlet Manifold Gasket. Face car on the downhill slope so that the IM is higher that t'other way. The simply undo the IM bolts and nuts and carefully pull the IM away from the head.
There will be some coolant loss, but not much. One word of warning, some coolant may enter the cylinders. To avoid any problems until you've taken the following measures, here's what I do.
When you've renewed the IMG and it's all back together, remove both Coil Packs and all four Sparks Plugs. Then with plugs removed, get someone to spin the starter motor briefly for say two-three seconds. That should expel any coolant which may have entered one of the cylinders. In my limited experience, it's usually Cylinder No. 4 ( the one nearest gearbox end of engine ) which will see some coolant expelled.
Then reassemble, top up and bleed cooling system. Keep and eye on that coolant level and temperature gauge as continuing losses could become harmful until that Water Pump is renewed.
Cheers John. I'd not thought of pulling the sparkplugs; the nice steep driveway should actually help me for a change this time! Water pump is being done right now at a garage so hopefully this should nip the problem in the bud. There will be some coolant loss, but not much. One word of warning, some coolant may enter the cylinders. To avoid any problems until you've taken the following measures, here's what I do.
When you've renewed the IMG and it's all back together, remove both Coil Packs and all four Sparks Plugs. Then with plugs removed, get someone to spin the starter motor briefly for say two-three seconds. That should expel any coolant which may have entered one of the cylinders. In my limited experience, it's usually Cylinder No. 4 ( the one nearest gearbox end of engine ) which will see some coolant expelled.
Then reassemble, top up and bleed cooling system. Keep and eye on that coolant level and temperature gauge as continuing losses could become harmful until that Water Pump is renewed.
It's about 1,000 miles on since I got the pump done, and it seems much better, with no fan cutting in after being on the motorway, and no grumbly noise from the pump any more. On the minus side I realised that the car should have and never has had an undertray while I've owned it, so I shall be off to the scrapyard when it finally warms up a bit.
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