Tuscan vs Tuscan S : Vox Tuscani
Discussion
I've ordered a Tuscan but can still change the order and "upgrade".
Personally it's a mental thing:"do I need the extra 50 Bhp to be even more thrilled?"
Is the difference worth the money?
And I don't like the rearend-spoiler?
Is there a great difference in "comfort" since I would like to use it daily?
Furthermore It will be my first sportscar.
But living with the idea that - given the chance- I can ridiculise a porsche even more if I had an Tuscan S is hard to bear.
Objectively : I won't go on circuits
so ?
koen
Personally it's a mental thing:"do I need the extra 50 Bhp to be even more thrilled?"
Is the difference worth the money?
And I don't like the rearend-spoiler?
Is there a great difference in "comfort" since I would like to use it daily?
Furthermore It will be my first sportscar.
But living with the idea that - given the chance- I can ridiculise a porsche even more if I had an Tuscan S is hard to bear.
Objectively : I won't go on circuits
so ?
koen
Both cars will trounce Porsches so either one will do mate! and the differance is probably about 30bhp and not 50 which TVR claim on paper!!the true output of the S is around 380!! as for the spoiler its a matter of taste but obviously needed for downforce. so as you're a virgin to the TVR world i would go for the standard Tuscan and save some money too.
>> Edited by kickass on Saturday 1st May 09:32
>> Edited by kickass on Saturday 1st May 09:32
I don't think there is really that much difference although the 3.6 standard engine has to rev higher to acheive it's quoated power output, the noticable difference is in the torque at lower speeds.If you don't like the look of the Tuscan S spoiler but want the extra power I am sure TVR would do you a 3.6 with a 'Red Rose' power up-grade.Have you tried MF cars Tuscan S demonstrator?
Nick
Nick
NCE 61 said:
I don't think there is really that much difference although the 3.6 standard engine has to rev higher to acheive it's quoated power output, the noticable difference is in the torque at lower speeds.If you don't like the look of the Tuscan S spoiler but want the extra power I am sure TVR would do you a 3.6 with a 'Red Rose' power up-grade.Have you tried MF cars Tuscan S demonstrator?
Nick
As we speak, the car is testing in France.
I still have to make an appointment with MM.
Would you opt for HYDRATRACK on a regular tuscan?
Koen
>> Edited by engelborghs on Saturday 1st May 22:35
Well I have a Tuscan S and Michael Caine (TVR Factory Le Man driver) who spec'd me car at Castle persuaded me not to get Hydratrak...so I didn't...he knows these cars more then anyone else.
His view is that its better to get instruction and get to feel the car and control it then the use of gadgets.
Alan.
His view is that its better to get instruction and get to feel the car and control it then the use of gadgets.
Alan.
you could spec a std tuscan with a 4 litre engine as a no cost option
the 4 litre is 360 bhp and the 's' is now 400 bhp.all qouted figures from tvr are pretty accurate with regard to the speed six engine.personally i cant see why people choose a 3.6 engined tuscan when the 4.0 litre is no extra cost.at least you have more uprating potential later during ownership should you wish.mrs mongoose and i are currently having the same dilemma.the factory wont supply an 's' without the gurney fitted due to type approval on the model.you could buy the 's',with all the extras,and then remove the gurney afterwards?our order form states an 's' with the option to change at the motorshow
the 4 litre is 360 bhp and the 's' is now 400 bhp.all qouted figures from tvr are pretty accurate with regard to the speed six engine.personally i cant see why people choose a 3.6 engined tuscan when the 4.0 litre is no extra cost.at least you have more uprating potential later during ownership should you wish.mrs mongoose and i are currently having the same dilemma.the factory wont supply an 's' without the gurney fitted due to type approval on the model.you could buy the 's',with all the extras,and then remove the gurney afterwards?our order form states an 's' with the option to change at the motorshow
mongoose said:
you could spec a std tuscan with a 4 litre engine as a no cost option
How do you do that? Just ask TVR to put the 4.0 litre in a Tuscan body?
How much torque has the 4.0 (NM)
I think there`s also a different suspension and set-up in the `S`
Koen
engelborghs said:from my recent experience,not all dealers are aware that you can spec a 4.0litre at no cost.we went to peninsula and county tvr for quotes for our new order.the chap at county had to ring tvr to confirm that you can do this,and was as surprised as you with the reply he got! at peninsula ,they told me you could do it.so id say,have a word with your dealer.the torque figure originally quoted for the 4.0litre engine was 310lb/ft(sorry dont have nm)this compares with 290lb/ft for the 3.6litre,a new 's' has 315lb/ft.i rang tvr power for a quote to upgrade the 4litre to 's' spec performance.it would cost £2.5k plus vat to get it to red rose spec(some 380-385bhp).but what you have to take into account when comparing specs and prices for a std vs an 's' is the 's' has a lot of other extras....close ratio box(much better imho),bigger brakes and better suspension.its nice to have all these to go with the extra power.then theres the other 's' bits...gas discharge lights,dab stereo,air con,18 inch wheels,colour coded steering wheel,colour coded boot carpet.so when you add it all up,the 's' seems good value,especially when you start thinking of comparing the residuals!
How do you do that? Just ask TVR to put the 4.0 litre in a Tuscan body?
How much torque has the 4.0 (NM)
I think there`s also a different suspension and set-up in the `S`
Koen
I think if you not going anywhere near a race rack, don't get an S, you'd be wasting your money. The gas discharge lights (full beam only) are just more expensive to replace, you will probably want to install your own ice, and as for the colour coded boot carpet... :-) The close ratio box is designed for track work (higher 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears) - but have a go and see what you think it's like on the road, horses for courses and all that. I would only spec. air con.
I would drive the pair and see if you can tell the difference in handling on the road. I prefer more torquey engines so went for the 4 litre rather than the 3.6.
I suspect the "standard" 4 litre is now pushing out 370bhp.
Cheers,
Andy.
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:56
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:57
I would drive the pair and see if you can tell the difference in handling on the road. I prefer more torquey engines so went for the 4 litre rather than the 3.6.
I suspect the "standard" 4 litre is now pushing out 370bhp.
Cheers,
Andy.
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:56
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:57
andyvdg said:
I think if you not going anywhere near a race rack, don't get an S, you'd be wasting your money. The gas discharge lights (full beam only) are just more expensive to replace, you will probably want to install your own ice, and as for the colour coded boot carpet... :-) The close ratio box is designed for track work (higher 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears) - but have a go and see what you think it's like on the road, horses for courses and all that. I would only spec. air con.
I would drive the pair and see if you can tell the difference in handling on the road. I prefer more torquey engines so went for the 4 litre rather than the 3.6.
I suspect the "standard" 4 litre is now pushing out 370bhp.
Cheers,
Andy.
Yes, I also prefer the 4 litre but TVR doesn't provide a LHD 4.0 due to export regulations. (370 BHP, not bad at all) It's the same for an 'S' without the ugly spoiler; impossible to import.
I'am still trying to change my order but ....
W'll see.
In comparison to an Tuscan S the "simple" 4.0 L has higher torques in the low rev's so it will be easier to drive in town etc... I think
Koen
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:56
>> Edited by andyvdg on Tuesday 4th May 13:57
andyvdg said:please dont take this the wrong way andy,as im not trying to be offensive,but where does this suspicion come from?im more likely to beleive that tvr would drop the power of the std 4 litre if anything,to match that of the 3.6 if theyd supply it as a no cost option.ultimately id expect it to remain unchanged,to save them cost and trouble.one things for sure,theres one heck of a difference between a std 4.0 and an new 's' in real performance when you drive them,i can vouch for that.incidently i also drove a 3.6 and couldnt say it was noticably diferent from a std 4 litre(as youd expect really).if there wasnt such a noticeable difference,i wouldnt be looking at an s,as i also prefer the asthetics of the std tus.
I suspect the "standard" 4 litre is now pushing out 370bhp.
Koen, a few things...
1. Have you driven a Tuscan before, or have you ordered it based on the stats, what people say, what it looks like, etc? If you've not driven one, I'd be careful, especially if you've not had a sportscar before - it's quite "extreme" even without Red-Rose/"S" spec, and very unlike most other cars. Isn't the figure about 20% for new TVRs written off by first time owners within a year? Definitely drive one if you've not done yet.
2. Get some driver training before it's delivered.
3. I'm not sure how the standard/S residual argument holds up outside of England - think most people here are basing that advice on the state of the used car market here... could be very different in another country.
4. I'd say that the 4 litre is a noticeably more powerful care than the 3.6, but the 3.6 was easier to drive. You mention higher torque at low revs making it easier to drive - it'll actually make it harder, as the power will be there instantly.
5. I know of people that've found Tuscan Ss to bottom-out on speed-bumps and other bad roads, whereas a standard 3.6/4.0/Red Rose won't
6. The "S" has uprated brakes, suspension, and engine over the standard one... This all makes for slightly better handling/performance than a Red Rose (and more so than a normal one), but a set of Nitron/Ohlin dampers on a standard one would give you a car that'd outhandle an S for far less money.
7. Hydratrack diffs have been known to break a fair bit, and it's a bit unpredictable at best
In summary, I'd look at getting a Red Rose 3.6 (or 4.0 if you can), so you'll have better brakes & more powerful engine, but without a huge extra cost for coloured carpets, etc. Then you can spend a bit of extra money on uprated suspension that'll give you a more predictable car that'll outperform an S in every situation that's not a straight-line drag. (And if you're wanting to straight-line drag race a TVR lots, you're going to be annoyed at having to wait 10-15 minutes for the engine to get up to temperature each time you get into it before doing that, or you'll go through a lot of engines)
Christof... I've been having trouble getting any dealers over here to supply me with a proper "S" spoiler for my RR - they just won't do it without an S engine number, etc. I take it you don't have those problems? (Long way for me to go for the official spoiler, though!)
1. Have you driven a Tuscan before, or have you ordered it based on the stats, what people say, what it looks like, etc? If you've not driven one, I'd be careful, especially if you've not had a sportscar before - it's quite "extreme" even without Red-Rose/"S" spec, and very unlike most other cars. Isn't the figure about 20% for new TVRs written off by first time owners within a year? Definitely drive one if you've not done yet.
2. Get some driver training before it's delivered.
3. I'm not sure how the standard/S residual argument holds up outside of England - think most people here are basing that advice on the state of the used car market here... could be very different in another country.
4. I'd say that the 4 litre is a noticeably more powerful care than the 3.6, but the 3.6 was easier to drive. You mention higher torque at low revs making it easier to drive - it'll actually make it harder, as the power will be there instantly.
5. I know of people that've found Tuscan Ss to bottom-out on speed-bumps and other bad roads, whereas a standard 3.6/4.0/Red Rose won't
6. The "S" has uprated brakes, suspension, and engine over the standard one... This all makes for slightly better handling/performance than a Red Rose (and more so than a normal one), but a set of Nitron/Ohlin dampers on a standard one would give you a car that'd outhandle an S for far less money.
7. Hydratrack diffs have been known to break a fair bit, and it's a bit unpredictable at best
In summary, I'd look at getting a Red Rose 3.6 (or 4.0 if you can), so you'll have better brakes & more powerful engine, but without a huge extra cost for coloured carpets, etc. Then you can spend a bit of extra money on uprated suspension that'll give you a more predictable car that'll outperform an S in every situation that's not a straight-line drag. (And if you're wanting to straight-line drag race a TVR lots, you're going to be annoyed at having to wait 10-15 minutes for the engine to get up to temperature each time you get into it before doing that, or you'll go through a lot of engines)
Christof... I've been having trouble getting any dealers over here to supply me with a proper "S" spoiler for my RR - they just won't do it without an S engine number, etc. I take it you don't have those problems? (Long way for me to go for the official spoiler, though!)mongoose said:
please dont take this the wrong way andy,as im not trying to be offensive,but where does this suspicion come from?im more likely to beleive that tvr would drop the power of the std 4 litre if anything,to match that of the 3.6 if theyd supply it as a no cost option.ultimately id expect it to remain unchanged,to save them cost and trouble.one things for sure,theres one heck of a difference between a std 4.0 and an new 's' in real performance when you drive them,i can vouch for that.incidently i also drove a 3.6 and couldnt say it was noticably diferent from a std 4 litre(as youd expect really).if there wasnt such a noticeable difference,i wouldnt be looking at an s,as i also prefer the asthetics of the std tus.
I really don't think TVR have the ability to "drop the power" at will to a set figure. Pick a dozen "identical" 4.0/3.6/whatever S6 engines, and I'd put money on you having a spread of at least 10BHP if not more between them. Going to the trouble of "detuning" a 4.0 would take them time (and hence money) - admittedly, they're pretty good as coming up with lousy fuel mappings, but going to the trouble of making it any worse?
Over time, I'd expect newer cars to keep pushing out 1 or 2 BHP more here and there, slowly increasing to 10+ over the 4 years the S6 has been out as slightly improved and more precise parts are used, etc. Making 365/370 "on average" by now. I'd have thought that the 3.6 was a less-stressed engine, benefiting from slightly newer, revised design features, hence making it more reliable, which TVR must know is necessary to make profit (especially given the figure of the number of S6 rebuilds TVR Power told me!) It definitely felt more civilised to drive, though, at the expensive of losing some torque. That's all subjective and could've been frigged lambda sensors, lower RON petrol, or anything else on the cars, of course!
mongoose said:
andyvdg said:
I suspect the "standard" 4 litre is now pushing out 370bhp.
please dont take this the wrong way andy,as im not trying to be offensive,but where does this suspicion come from?im more likely to beleive that tvr would drop the power of the std 4 litre if anything,to match that of the 3.6 if theyd supply it as a no cost option.ultimately id expect it to remain unchanged,to save them cost and trouble.one things for sure,theres one heck of a difference between a std 4.0 and an new 's' in real performance when you drive them,i can vouch for that.incidently i also drove a 3.6 and couldnt say it was noticably diferent from a std 4 litre(as youd expect really).if there wasnt such a noticeable difference,i wouldnt be looking at an s,as i also prefer the asthetics of the std tus.
That's OK, none taken!
OK - the latest head (* apparently the casting has not changed) increases the bhp by 10 (S from 390 to 400 bhp). The same head is used on the standard engine as the S, the difference in power is down to the ECU. So the "standard" 4.0 goes from 360 to 370 bhp.
Everyone who has driven them says an S engine drives differently to a standard 4.0. Go and try them out and see which one you like. They're all fun!
Cheers,
Andy.
>> Edited by andyvdg on Thursday 6th May 16:05
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