RE: New Tuscan Range
Discussion
Almost every dealer I spoke to at the show tried to sound keen on the car but admitted quietly they were disappointed the price was so high. The industry needs a low cost alternative to kick the arse of the low-end sportscars (base Z3, MGF, MX-5, base SLK). TVR are the guys to do it and give the same power as the high end versions of the above cars. I reckon it should be a sub-300bhp to allow enough room for the tuscan and it should be priced at about 25-28k.
TVR has to face the fact that 2 seater cars are on every major manufacturer's build list. Just take a look at the plethora of machinery eminating from the once staid stables of Rover, BMW, Mercedes (perhaps an exception) and even good old Ford gets in on the act with a very low priced fun machine - streetka (see Autocar, yesterday). TVR has to capture the 'fun' and provide 'performance' as the buying criterion. If the offering is too expensive, too unreliable or doesn't match the aspirations of a potential owner, then they are simply not going to buy it. The Tamora was never right. It was aimed too high - competing with Tuscan and Chimaera and a host of other machinery in a very congested market. It was neither glamourous nor exotic. What it should have been was a basic model, with wild performance and low running costs. By all means allow owners to pump up the value with their own choices, but keep a starter model available for customers to own and aspire to owning the ultimate TVR experience - Tuscan/Cerbera.
Perhaps this is an indication of another key feature of the TVR experience, the corporate U-turn. I'd guess they are either going to scrap the Tamora (cocooned to come out as something else as with the Griff s6 / tuscan) or listen to critics (and perhaps the odd accountant)and make the car significantly cheaper by any means necessary. Essentially they need to decide on their course of action, volume car maker, albeit small volumes, or maker of exotica that gets lucky. Porsche is the only competitor that has survived in that kind of arena, both independant and intact and even they had an unholy 924 shaped alliance to see them through the rough times
For TVR to increase their business substancially they need to look at all other manufacturers strategy and start to structure a range that has more than just several versions of the same car.
After all if BMW just made 7 different versions of a 3 series it would not sell half as many cars.
After all the tamora is a 35-40K 300hp+ , 2 seat, covertable, with a glass fibre body. Could this not also apply to the Griff, Chimp & Tuscan.
Not talking off roaders or saloons, but how about a 25K TVR - mass produced engine to make it useable. Would this not grow the potential market.
I can't help thinking that TVR is barking up the wrong tree with the Tamora. The £30k 2-seater market might be a very attractive sector (in terms of sheer volume of SLK's, Z3's, etc., on the road) but it's also one of the most keenly fought. The sort of people who own those cars are also a different breed in terms of motoring appreciation and, dare I say it, 'tolerance' to the inevitable foibles of a more highly stressed (powerful) piece of machinery. If Porsche can fill their order book with deposits for that £250k V10 GT whatever-it-is before they've even decided whether they'll build it - and I expect anyone who wants one of the 300 £120k GT2's is already too late - the thing to do is to go for the extreme end of the market and get the Speed 12 into production. Me, I'm very happy in my Cerbera 4.5 thankyou, and I couldn't even think about spending that kind of money on a car, but it seems like there's an awful lot of people who can.
TVR have always made superb cars. They are beginning to worry me though - the ugly Tamora and now the suggestion of a Tuscan with a (I can hardly bear to say it) spoiler, silly abbreviated names ie The Tuscan R or S - what was wrong with the recipe of power, gorgeous looks, a great sound and a reasonable price tag? Am I being old fashioned?
The cheap TVR debate surfaces once more...
I'm sceptical that the company could produce a sub 30K car in its current form.
PW (rightly or wrongly) appears to want to build a 'home grown' product - that means no cheap Ford Cologne V6 that Dagenham can supply for the price of a bag of chips and a rummage around the British Leyland parts bin. This do-it-ourself approach leads to non-existent margins unless you can create sufficient economies of scale. Aha! you say, but a 22K 200HP TVR would sell like hot cakes! Possibly, but where would they be built? A quick look at the factory tells you that it really isn't geared up to produce many more cars than they currently can without significant investment in floorspace, plant, logistics and staff. The current economic conditions do not lend themselves to such investments. Malaysia may offer some possiblities, but I've no knowledge of how capable they are and it kind-of removes the patriotic element somewhat.
Perhaps a solution is to segment the product offering and leave 'home grown' to the upper end (Tuscan, Cerbera) and accept that a TVR base model requires 3rd party involvement. Sub-contract the stuff you don't do well (anything with a current running through it) and source components from manufacturers that can exploit economies of scale (The US and Japan produce some pretty decent V6 powerplants).
Another alternative would be to take the TVR core-competence and sell it to another manufacturer (as Lotus did/does). I'm sure many would see it as heresy (including PW), but a beefed up Alfa GTV with a speed 6 engine? I'd buy one.
Of course, that's only my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it.
My faher has always maintained that he would not buy another TVR until they were more competitively priced and offered a smaller engine. He adores the design work but does not want 300bhp. If Tvr could build a car in the same vein as the S and price it within tolerable margins of difference to the major manufacturers they would have a winner in my opinion. Instead, people like my father who's owned 3 TVR's previously get fed up with the current crop of models and defect to Alfa, Toyota etc... Smaller engine would mean cheaper insurance etc etc etc
Paul said that TVR do not have the capacity to build another car, especially a car that will sell in numbers, yet they are running half the production that they were running a year ago and have laid off staff. They could build more, but it may not be in the gameplan. Also the engine costs about 15 grand to make for a Tuscan, so it is essentially the whole reason why the tomato is so expensive.
TVR has moved up in the hierarchy of automobile manufacturers in the last few years. They are constantly compared to Ferraris and Porsches in the motoring press, and even though they are still off the mark in terms of general quality you can't deny that they still offer a fantastic performance & individuality per pound ratio. TVR can only compete with highly specialized high profile products now that the market is flooded with affordable and reliable roadsters and should therefore not, in my modest opinion at least, try to recreate a 21st century S with an outsourced engine. They should try to emulate in their own way the product strategy of the recognized big guns such as Ferrari. To put things into perspective would a GBP 50K Ferrari fitted with a 250bhp turbocharged Alfa V6 be credible on the market?
quote:Agreed that they are currently below capacity, but my point was that to make money on a "new-S", they would have to shift a significant number to exploit economies of scale in manufacturing - possibly more than the current factory max capacity.
Paul said that TVR do not have the capacity to build another car, especially a car that will sell in numbers, yet they are running half the production that they were running a year ago and have laid off staff. They could build more, but it may not be in the gameplan.
quote:They actually build LHD cars for the continent, Cerbera included. Edited by speedsix20 on Saturday 31st March 01:04
[quote]what about the continent why doesn't mr wheeler building lhd cars are we a kind of forgotten people i know a lot of tvr drivers at the continent willing to get their hands on such a beauty not to mention for the cerberra
quote:not the cerbera...to old...but the tuscan yes...as P.W. promiced. They actually build LHD cars for the continent, Cerbera included. Edited by speedsix20 on Saturday 31st March 01:04
[quote][quote]what about the continent why doesn't mr wheeler building lhd cars are we a kind of forgotten people i know a lot of tvr drivers at the continent willing to get their hands on such a beauty not to mention for the cerberra
quote:
A friend of mine owns a very nice 1999 Starmist blue LHD Cerbera Speed Six bought new from the Swiss importer in the Zurich area. ok....but not manufactered in blackpool..it is a conversion of the swiss importor....he did that to with a tuscan...both are an eyesore to P.W. Edited by speedsix20 on Saturday 31st March 20:04
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