Rejection / Refund advice please
Discussion
Ok. I've had the car for one month exactly and I want to reject on the grounds that it is not fit for the purpose for which it is intended.
1. It won't start in the rain.
2. It won't start when it has been raining or is damp.
3. The paint is crap
4. The trim is falling off
5. Car will not idle (wet or dry, just worse when wet)
6. Car will suddenly cut out and then not start again. (wet or dry, just worse when wet)
What do I do and where do I stand ?
I have a car that I cannot drive in the wet, cannot drive after it has got wet, have no confidence in it starting, no confidence in it not falling to bits frankly.
I have an AA report advising not to drive the car because it would leave be stranded, and I haven't driven the car since the AA report was written.
I have no other eveidence apart from a list of phone calls to my dealer (from day one) telling them of these problems. They have agreed to try and put them right (I don't have a date yet... surprise surprise) but I've had enough.
I don't want a replacement car, I want a refund.
The car is on finance with TVR finance on a PCP 3 year agreement. I have just made my first payment.
Please, anyone who is in a similar boat, or who has rejected a vehicle, please add your comments. I really need to know were I stand.
Thanks in advance.
>>> Edited by Chewbacca on Sunday 31st August 01:33
1. It won't start in the rain.
2. It won't start when it has been raining or is damp.
3. The paint is crap
4. The trim is falling off
5. Car will not idle (wet or dry, just worse when wet)
6. Car will suddenly cut out and then not start again. (wet or dry, just worse when wet)
What do I do and where do I stand ?
I have a car that I cannot drive in the wet, cannot drive after it has got wet, have no confidence in it starting, no confidence in it not falling to bits frankly.
I have an AA report advising not to drive the car because it would leave be stranded, and I haven't driven the car since the AA report was written.
I have no other eveidence apart from a list of phone calls to my dealer (from day one) telling them of these problems. They have agreed to try and put them right (I don't have a date yet... surprise surprise) but I've had enough.
I don't want a replacement car, I want a refund.
The car is on finance with TVR finance on a PCP 3 year agreement. I have just made my first payment.
Please, anyone who is in a similar boat, or who has rejected a vehicle, please add your comments. I really need to know were I stand.
Thanks in advance.
>>> Edited by Chewbacca on Sunday 31st August 01:33
chewbacca, not an ideal start to Tuscan ownership. Paint and trim aside, it sounds like all your other problems are linked. Has your dealer tried to reslove them for you? Should be pretty straightforward I'd have thought. After that, get them to sort your paint/trim issues and you'll be a lot happier.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's not surprising that you are now feeling "what have I done". These cars aint cheap (for most of us) and it's a horrible feeling to think you have made a mistake, but hang in there. Once your problems are sorted, you'll love the car for sure and forget all about the position you are in now.
6 months ago, I traded in my 1998 4.5 Chimaera (which I owned from new and has 100% happy/confident with the car) for a 2000, Cerbera 4.5 LW. In my first month of ownership the Cerb was on the back of an RAC transporter and off back to my dealer twice. I thought like you - what have I done, and I want my money back.
I stuck with it, let the dealer sort the problems, and it's now running like a dream. I'm very glad now that I didn't get rid of the car.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's not surprising that you are now feeling "what have I done". These cars aint cheap (for most of us) and it's a horrible feeling to think you have made a mistake, but hang in there. Once your problems are sorted, you'll love the car for sure and forget all about the position you are in now.
6 months ago, I traded in my 1998 4.5 Chimaera (which I owned from new and has 100% happy/confident with the car) for a 2000, Cerbera 4.5 LW. In my first month of ownership the Cerb was on the back of an RAC transporter and off back to my dealer twice. I thought like you - what have I done, and I want my money back.
I stuck with it, let the dealer sort the problems, and it's now running like a dream. I'm very glad now that I didn't get rid of the car.
mate, sorry to hear your woes. The problems (apart from the paint) all sound to be coming from a common source, water getting to the ignition/ecu, I'd be more inclined to get the hump with the dealer for not rectifying this.
I had a similar prob with the Griff when driving in the wet, the engine would suddenly quit, natural reaction is to press the throttle by which time the damn thing would come back to life causing a sudden 360 in the middle of the road. No one could figure out what caused it, I eventually noticed a hole in the air pipe to the air meter and this was where the rain got in
I had a similar prob with the Griff when driving in the wet, the engine would suddenly quit, natural reaction is to press the throttle by which time the damn thing would come back to life causing a sudden 360 in the middle of the road. No one could figure out what caused it, I eventually noticed a hole in the air pipe to the air meter and this was where the rain got in
Chewie' you say the paint is "crap" but what exactly do you mean by this? I bought a new Griffith 500 back in 99 and there was a defect in the paintwork, which the dealer rectified perfectly. Generally though (defects asside) TVR's paintwork is 1000% better than the average job done by robot, including Jags, mercs, BMW's etc. all costing a lot of dosh. Have you actually pointed out the defects to your dealer and asked them to rectify them? In my case they did and I got a decent bit of good-will in to the bargain. I have since been absolutly delighted with my Griff! Good luck - Rich...
Thanks for all the advice.
BUT, the real crux of the problem is this...
Its my ONLY car. And I depend on my car every day for my living. I need to travel and move around without having to worry.
I have absolutely zero confidence in the car. Sure, the dealer could fix it, but, with the benefit of knowledge gained having looked around on this forum, there is absolutely nothing to stop the car from breaking again.
I just don't ever think that TVR will make a car that can be used day in day out. I wish I could be proved wrong.
Furthermore, if I let the dealer fix it, and then it goes wrong again in two months I have a much weaker case for rejection than I do after one month (don't I ?)
What if it goes wrong after six months and I lose work as a result? I can't take that risk. I was assured by the dealer that the car could be a daily driver and give three years of motoring.
And, lets ne honest, the build quality is an absolute joke. Yes, its an amazing looking and sounding car. But they can't even glue a joint properly in the interior or spray paint evenly. Goodness knows what kind of defects are waiting under the skin to pop up in months to come.
I really have had enough of it. It has to go. Has anyone ever got their money back in the past or have the dealers / TVR always won ?
BUT, the real crux of the problem is this...
Its my ONLY car. And I depend on my car every day for my living. I need to travel and move around without having to worry.
I have absolutely zero confidence in the car. Sure, the dealer could fix it, but, with the benefit of knowledge gained having looked around on this forum, there is absolutely nothing to stop the car from breaking again.
I just don't ever think that TVR will make a car that can be used day in day out. I wish I could be proved wrong.
Furthermore, if I let the dealer fix it, and then it goes wrong again in two months I have a much weaker case for rejection than I do after one month (don't I ?)
What if it goes wrong after six months and I lose work as a result? I can't take that risk. I was assured by the dealer that the car could be a daily driver and give three years of motoring.
And, lets ne honest, the build quality is an absolute joke. Yes, its an amazing looking and sounding car. But they can't even glue a joint properly in the interior or spray paint evenly. Goodness knows what kind of defects are waiting under the skin to pop up in months to come.
I really have had enough of it. It has to go. Has anyone ever got their money back in the past or have the dealers / TVR always won ?
Simple. Write to the dealer telling them that you are rejecting the car giving brief description of reasons and referring to previous discussions, etc. Say you are rejecting it as it is 'not fit for purpose' and quote the Sale of Goods and Trade Descriptions Acts. Be prepared to return car to their premises and walk away. Good luck!
>> Edited by jigs on Sunday 31st August 15:06
>> Edited by jigs on Sunday 31st August 15:06
Sorry chewbacca, but it sounds like you were either ill-informed or didn't do enough research before buying.
Sure, there are plenty of owners who use there cars everyday and have no problems, but for many (perhaps most) things do go wrong on occasion. Statistically, I would bet that there are more problem free Chims and Griffs (i.e. simpler car, simpler engine, simpler electronics - so less to go wrong).
I have had 3 TVRs now and have always said that the day I have to totally rely on the car every single day, and put a fair few miles on it, will be the day I stray from the TVR marque. In my opinion, they are just not every day, 100% reliable cars. Far too highly strung for that (well, they are race cars really).
I know this is not really helping (sorry), but you may wish to consider discussing exchange for a nearly new Chimaera 450 (which is much more likely to be the every day car you seek) and get a refund on the difference. This should be more palatable to your dealer than a complete refund.
Sure, there are plenty of owners who use there cars everyday and have no problems, but for many (perhaps most) things do go wrong on occasion. Statistically, I would bet that there are more problem free Chims and Griffs (i.e. simpler car, simpler engine, simpler electronics - so less to go wrong).
I have had 3 TVRs now and have always said that the day I have to totally rely on the car every single day, and put a fair few miles on it, will be the day I stray from the TVR marque. In my opinion, they are just not every day, 100% reliable cars. Far too highly strung for that (well, they are race cars really).
I know this is not really helping (sorry), but you may wish to consider discussing exchange for a nearly new Chimaera 450 (which is much more likely to be the every day car you seek) and get a refund on the difference. This should be more palatable to your dealer than a complete refund.
I am not having second thoughts. I'm bloody heartbroken !!
I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to get to replace it. I genuinely WISH that they could make a Tuscan that could be a daily driver. The reality is, however, that they are just not there yet. They just aren't up to scratch. And its a damn shame since they would be a world class car if they were.
Changing your mind isn't grounds for rejection, but a car that stalls and doesn't restart, and can't be used in the rain certainly is. It does not fulfill the purpose etc. etc.
Maybe other TVRs are better (heck, I don't know do I - I've only had one, this one, and I'm not impressed) but I'm not willing to take the chance.
Money back (all of it) is the only way to solve this unfortunately and if they refuse then I'll go to court.
And gixxer - Doesn't what your saying mean that all TVR's are not fit to be used as everyday cars ?? I appreciate your honesty but it doesn't say much for the reliability of TVRs does it ?
>> Edited by Chewbacca on Sunday 31st August 18:14
I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to get to replace it. I genuinely WISH that they could make a Tuscan that could be a daily driver. The reality is, however, that they are just not there yet. They just aren't up to scratch. And its a damn shame since they would be a world class car if they were.
Changing your mind isn't grounds for rejection, but a car that stalls and doesn't restart, and can't be used in the rain certainly is. It does not fulfill the purpose etc. etc.
Maybe other TVRs are better (heck, I don't know do I - I've only had one, this one, and I'm not impressed) but I'm not willing to take the chance.
Money back (all of it) is the only way to solve this unfortunately and if they refuse then I'll go to court.
And gixxer - Doesn't what your saying mean that all TVR's are not fit to be used as everyday cars ?? I appreciate your honesty but it doesn't say much for the reliability of TVRs does it ?
>> Edited by Chewbacca on Sunday 31st August 18:14
Chewbacca said:Not being harsh either, but from what you've told us it seems there is an electrical problem which presulamably could easily be fixed but you have not really expanded on what the dealers proposed course of action to rectify the fault is, have you? Paintwork, as I say can, and will be, fixed so... Have you actually told the dealer to fix the car properly and what have they said? Untill you expand on this it still appears that you have just changed your mind. Sorry
Changing your mind isn't grounds for rejection, but a car that stalls and doesn't restart, and can't be used in the rain certainly is.
Rich...IMHO we are starting to lose the point here. To buy a specialist hand built to all intents and purposes racing car and not expect probs is if you will forgive me a little naive. My husband considered a Cerbera as a co car but knowing the likelyhood of future problems settled for a Boxster S. Its mass produced robot built and very reliable as well as being quite fun. I totally agree, these things shouldnt happen with a TVR but the reality is they do. You should go into ownership with eyes wide open. The truth is that if TVR spent the sort of money needed to achieve the standard of BMW, Porsche, Ferrari etc then they would be beyond most peoples means. I have desired a TVR for over 25yrs but even way back then they were stuck with the bad build/quality tag but I knew that and accepted it prior to purchasing mine.
Please dont think I am being critical of you. I hope you succeed in getting your money back. All I would say is there are many of us out here who live with the Tuscan warts and all and despite the hassle are still prepared to support the marque. And if you think I am one of the fortunate ones, read my latest thread.
Good luck.
Please dont think I am being critical of you. I hope you succeed in getting your money back. All I would say is there are many of us out here who live with the Tuscan warts and all and despite the hassle are still prepared to support the marque. And if you think I am one of the fortunate ones, read my latest thread.
Good luck.
Thats all cool but...
a) I bought a NEW car. I don't want repaired one. We all know that a repair on paint (no matter how good) is NEVER as good as the original work. Putting right a bodged paint job doesn't get the paint up to the standard that it should have been to start with. I have seen some lovely paintwork on TVRs, but from a distance. Maybe they really all are like that. If so, more fool everyone for buying one.
b) Perhaps I was naive. But, if so, then surely the dealer should have pointed out to me that all TVR's were ropey. Otherwise it is still a breach of the law as I have been mislead into thinking the vehicle is something that it is not. It is not fit to be used as an everyday car. It just can't be relied upon.
Please don't misread this as TVR bashing. I waited and waited for this car, thinking it would be new and therefore perfect. There is glue everywhere, the trim doesn't fit, the paint is blistered in places and blotchy in others (its a Moonraker Black car and some parts around the doors are a different shade of blake, perhaps due to overspray etc.), and now the damned thing won't start in the rain. This is a joke. I new that UK cars were always at the bottom of the heap but this is crazy.
Do all the interiors look like shit ? Is Stevie Wonder working for TVR in the interior department, waving a glue gun around like a white stick in the air ??
a) I bought a NEW car. I don't want repaired one. We all know that a repair on paint (no matter how good) is NEVER as good as the original work. Putting right a bodged paint job doesn't get the paint up to the standard that it should have been to start with. I have seen some lovely paintwork on TVRs, but from a distance. Maybe they really all are like that. If so, more fool everyone for buying one.
b) Perhaps I was naive. But, if so, then surely the dealer should have pointed out to me that all TVR's were ropey. Otherwise it is still a breach of the law as I have been mislead into thinking the vehicle is something that it is not. It is not fit to be used as an everyday car. It just can't be relied upon.
Please don't misread this as TVR bashing. I waited and waited for this car, thinking it would be new and therefore perfect. There is glue everywhere, the trim doesn't fit, the paint is blistered in places and blotchy in others (its a Moonraker Black car and some parts around the doors are a different shade of blake, perhaps due to overspray etc.), and now the damned thing won't start in the rain. This is a joke. I new that UK cars were always at the bottom of the heap but this is crazy.
Do all the interiors look like shit ? Is Stevie Wonder working for TVR in the interior department, waving a glue gun around like a white stick in the air ??
I can accept all you say and am really not trying to defend TVR. You are quite right, for the sort of money you have shelled out you should expect better. The fact is though that these cars and I would imagine any specialist vehicle, will have problems. Just look at the Noble forum for example.
I can see that there is no way to appease you but please keep us updated on how you get on down the legal route.
I would just like to add that in defense of dealers, every single niggle I have had including paintwork has been sorted efficiently and quickly by my local service centre.
I can see that there is no way to appease you but please keep us updated on how you get on down the legal route.
I would just like to add that in defense of dealers, every single niggle I have had including paintwork has been sorted efficiently and quickly by my local service centre.
Thanks. I'll keep you updated.
I'm not trying to get at anyone. I'm sure with hindsight I was naive.
But is it naive to expect a £40,000 car NOT to have trim falling off (literally), paint chipping off (literally), and not starting in the wet (spluttering and cutting out etc.) ?
I fell in love with the cars looks and bought one on the basis of its looks.
What do people think about my chances of getting my money back though ?
I'm not trying to get at anyone. I'm sure with hindsight I was naive.
But is it naive to expect a £40,000 car NOT to have trim falling off (literally), paint chipping off (literally), and not starting in the wet (spluttering and cutting out etc.) ?
I fell in love with the cars looks and bought one on the basis of its looks.
What do people think about my chances of getting my money back though ?
No chance if you just moan on here - you're wasting your breath! What PHers think is neither here or there. Get a good solicitor on the job and formally reject the car right away - delaying any longer will just dilute your case. You sound pretty certain and resolved about what you want to do so go for it. NOW!
Chewbacca,
Its is certainly a shame this has happened but, IMHO of course, I would have bought a chim or griff just to get to know about TVR ownership..thats what I did and then took the plunge and bought a new Tuscan S March'03...
I can honestly say that I have had 'NO' problems with it...its been bloody amazing BUT I also accept that at some point I'm gonna have problems...hey its a bloody race car for the road for god's sake
I would give it another chance and get the showroom to sort out...if they won't/can't then give it back!!
Ferrari/BMW/Noble etc etc etc all have these same problems...its just we British just love to knock our own products at the first hurdle!
Good luck.
Alan.
Its is certainly a shame this has happened but, IMHO of course, I would have bought a chim or griff just to get to know about TVR ownership..thats what I did and then took the plunge and bought a new Tuscan S March'03...
I can honestly say that I have had 'NO' problems with it...its been bloody amazing BUT I also accept that at some point I'm gonna have problems...hey its a bloody race car for the road for god's sake
I would give it another chance and get the showroom to sort out...if they won't/can't then give it back!!
Ferrari/BMW/Noble etc etc etc all have these same problems...its just we British just love to knock our own products at the first hurdle!
Good luck.
Alan.
Wise words Alan.lady topaz said:
To buy a specialist hand built to all intents and purposes racing car and not expect probs is if you will forgive me a little naive.
The Tuscan is not a race car at all. 5K will buy something quicker round the track.
And TVR paint is better then Mercedes?
Put everything in writing. Stop using the car if at all possible. Remember you are responsible for mitigating your losses.
Chewbacca said:
a) I bought a NEW car. I don't want repaired one. We all know that a repair on paint (no matter how good) is NEVER as good as the original work.
A simple AA check will show that the car has been resprayed - and you'll have to explain why to any prospective future buyers.
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