What is a red rose engine

What is a red rose engine

Author
Discussion

bertie

Original Poster:

8,566 posts

291 months

Wednesday 12th December 2001
quotequote all
Does anyone know the actual differances in a Red rose engine?

Or is it just a ECU reprogramming job?

PetrolTed

34,443 posts

310 months

Wednesday 12th December 2001
quotequote all
As MikeE said on the Tuscan list earlier, it's 'Red Rose' scrawled in vinyl marker on the rocker cover and 20bhp more

I don't know the real answer...

And the Tuscan S got another 10bhp on top of that...?

pdaccus

59 posts

290 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
I have been reliably informed that the S engine is identical to the Red Rose.

RRTuscan

58 posts

279 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all

It was more BHP and a lighter camshaft or something hardware based. Oh and of course 'RR' written in black marker pen on the side of the block.



Edited by RRTuscan on Thursday 13th December 09:53

MikeE

1,850 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
according to someone who's just had the upgrade done (as part of their rebuild) it is:

new crank,
new rods,
new pistons

and that's it.

and Ted, I'd never be that cynical

bertie

Original Poster:

8,566 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
But crank, rods and pistons do not more power make.
The capacity remains unchanged I understand so the only other feature those things can alter is the compression ratio, so is that it?

Or shall I start offering a new service where you send me your car, I keep it for 3 days, write "450 bhp" with a marker pen and you give me £5000.

Any takers?

RRTuscan

58 posts

279 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all

You do get more BHP and the difference when driving a normal tuscan and a RR tuscan or S is significant. Whether or not its worth 5k Im not 100% sure.

dannylt

1,906 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
quote:

But crank, rods and pistons do not more power make.
The capacity remains unchanged I understand so the only other feature those things can alter is the compression ratio, so is that it?

Or shall I start offering a new service where you send me your car, I keep it for 3 days, write "450 bhp" with a marker pen and you give me £5000.

Any takers?



I think the different crank was just stronger (steel). I thought the significant mod was different cams & ecu mapping.

bosshog

1,644 posts

283 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
Just out of interest does has anyone put their car on a rolling road and also weighed it? It'd be interesting to see what the actual figures are, as we all know TVR figure are a bit 'enthusiastic' when it comes to power and weight. Not that it matters dilly swat in the real world, we all know their not slow..

bertie

Original Poster:

8,566 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
quote:



I think the different crank was just stronger (steel). I thought the significant mod was different cams & ecu mapping.



Now that would make sense, so is this the true extent of the mods.
Revised tougher crank, rods and pistons to increase CR
Revised profile cams
Re programmed ECU

Sounds about right, anyone know?

PetrolTed

34,443 posts

310 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
quote:

Just out of interest does has anyone put their car on a rolling road and also weighed it?

I only know of one Tuscan that's been rolling roaded and (to everyone's surprise) it did what it said on the tin (~350/360bhp).

MikeE

1,850 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
quote:

I only know of one Tuscan that's been rolling roaded and (to everyone's surprise) it did what it said on the tin (~350/360bhp).



surprise? more like disgust I'd say

bertie

Original Poster:

8,566 posts

291 months

Thursday 13th December 2001
quotequote all
The 4.0 speed six made 358bhp and 291 lb ft, so very respectable!

Interestingly the best 4.5 AJP8 made 349bhp (spec 420) and 301 lb ft and the Griff 500 247bhp and 297 lbft

So us speed six owner should be very happy!

bertie

Original Poster:

8,566 posts

291 months

Friday 14th December 2001
quotequote all
I'm amazed no one has anything to say about these figures, guess you must all be delirious (sp) or something.

Edited by bertie on Friday 14th December 23:36

dannylt

1,906 posts

291 months

Wednesday 19th December 2001
quotequote all
quote:

quote:

I only know of one Tuscan that's been rolling roaded and (to everyone's surprise) it did what it said on the tin (~350/360bhp).



surprise? more like disgust I'd say




What? It was an RR, so the tin said 380. It's still down.

PetrolTed

34,443 posts

310 months

Wednesday 19th December 2001
quotequote all
Oh come on Danny that's just sour grapes. Argue what you like about tolerances on the day but 360 compared with a claimed 380 would be good enough for most people.

Y1UFO

9 posts

286 months

Sunday 23rd December 2001
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Just to stir it up a bit, I would say TVR's bhp estimates on the RR engine could be a bit conservative. They've since put the claimed up from 380 to 390.

358 was on a day where readings were supposed to be 15-20 bhp down due to atmospheric conditions - no idea whether this was true, but a 4.2 Cerbie was 20 bhp down from a previous visits results.

Other factor bringing the result down was that tappets needed adjusting (idling at 5/600 rather than 900). The performance gain is described as "significant", but hasn't been quantified as far as I know. However, it seems to be rated as a bigger difference than the 20++ bhp standard/RR gap.

On that basis, not difficult to imagine something starting with a 4 next time out - I hope to make it back to Cheltenham post-6k service to find out.

Of course one swallow doesn't make a summer - could be that average figures for the standard '360' version is in the 310-340 range which the standard Cerbies notched, but it would be interesting to get a few more tested.

Last thing I heard, the 4.2 'R' version in the development car was putting out around 500 rather than the publicised 450 - anyone know about this?