beware speed six engines
Discussion
After a long time considering I've now decided against a Tuscan. Stories of serious problems with Speed Six engines will not go away. Despite claims of earlier problems with finger followers now being resolved, I keep hearing of engines having to go back to Blackpool after 5-10k miles for full rebuilds. This includes cars delivered late summer 01. Some dealers I have spoken to are now confirming the existence of around 250 returned engines awaiting attention at the factory. It's time for TVR to come clean - are there serious problems with this engine or not? Despite being a massive TVR fan, I'm not prepared to part with £40k plus if I can't get reasonable mileage out of the car...it's not enough to say don't worry if it goes bang, we'll fix it. I do know a number of dealers are very worried about this issue and are seriously considering resigning their franchises. Could this be the reason for so many disappearing over the last 12 months? If anybody can confirm or refute these engine problems I'd be interested to hear.
You will probably get the forum idiots who slag you off for mentioning anything bad about TVR, many of them probably never have owned one.
You can only talk about your own experiences. My AJP8 Cerbera was off the road 6mths in 12mths and back to factory twice for engine work.
Couldn`t wait to get rid of it.
You can only talk about your own experiences. My AJP8 Cerbera was off the road 6mths in 12mths and back to factory twice for engine work.
Couldn`t wait to get rid of it.
Ok, I'd be lying if I wasn't saying I'm getting increasingly worried about the situation with the Tuscan powerplant.
I've been trying to tell myself that all the problems with the Speed Six engines is sorted, but in the back of my mind I've been worried that there are still problems out there. Messages on here aren't a lot of help as a confidence boost, and I received an email from a friend on Friday who forwarded the following from a work colleague:
> Heard last night that one of my
> colleagues has just had to send his
> Tuscan back to Blackpool at 10k
> miles - engine kaput....
> apparently one of 250
> engines sitting there..... his local
> dealer told him not to put too much
> pressure on as they were in a
> precarious financial position.
> Apparently Renault are in there
> doing due diligence???
Now.. the Renault thing I'm not to sure about - especially with PW's insistance to build everything in house etc etc... but the precarious financial position? Has anyone heard any stories similar about financial troubles at TVR??
The trouble is, the Tuscan is going to take up a serious amount of my savings (like ... nearly all!) but I'm happy to spend that money so long as I end up with a car thats sellable (sp?) at the end of ownership. I know TVRs are renowned for their troubles, but do I really want to spend all my hard earned money on a car that, if the engines aren't ever going to get sorted, is likely to be remembered as one of those cars that was a great idea, but never quite made it. If in three years time the engines are still going bang, the Tuscan is going ot have an awful reputation, and resale is going to be next to impossible. All is well and good whilst all our cars are under warranty, but once these engines start going bang and TVR start charging for the rebuild..... ?
Now I have a few questions to come from all this...
Firstly, if the problem is as widespread and regular as it appears to be, why hasn't the motoring press caught onto it? I don't rememeber seeing any news articles in any Autocar, Top Gear, Evo etc that have announced problems with the Speed Six engines? Surely there'd be some sort of announcement if it was as serious as it appears to be?
Secondly, if there are all these engines going bang, then what the hell is wrong with them! Surely with the number of engines going back up to Blackpool, even after a first (second?) rebuild, then TVR must have cottoned on to the reason why these engines keep dying and been able to work out a solution???
Finally.... and this is not ths sort of thing I want to be thinking about really, but ... - having just spec'd my car last week and put down my 10% on Friday, what are the chances of cancelling my order with any of my money being returned, or at least with no further costs involved..?
Anyways - that's a worst case scenario. I'm hoping lots of people are going to appear from the woodwork and tell me that its all just rumour and that there's nothing to worry about, right... right????
-andy-
Edited by sixspeed on Monday 29th October 10:21
I've been trying to tell myself that all the problems with the Speed Six engines is sorted, but in the back of my mind I've been worried that there are still problems out there. Messages on here aren't a lot of help as a confidence boost, and I received an email from a friend on Friday who forwarded the following from a work colleague:
> Heard last night that one of my
> colleagues has just had to send his
> Tuscan back to Blackpool at 10k
> miles - engine kaput....
> apparently one of 250
> engines sitting there..... his local
> dealer told him not to put too much
> pressure on as they were in a
> precarious financial position.
> Apparently Renault are in there
> doing due diligence???
Now.. the Renault thing I'm not to sure about - especially with PW's insistance to build everything in house etc etc... but the precarious financial position? Has anyone heard any stories similar about financial troubles at TVR??
The trouble is, the Tuscan is going to take up a serious amount of my savings (like ... nearly all!) but I'm happy to spend that money so long as I end up with a car thats sellable (sp?) at the end of ownership. I know TVRs are renowned for their troubles, but do I really want to spend all my hard earned money on a car that, if the engines aren't ever going to get sorted, is likely to be remembered as one of those cars that was a great idea, but never quite made it. If in three years time the engines are still going bang, the Tuscan is going ot have an awful reputation, and resale is going to be next to impossible. All is well and good whilst all our cars are under warranty, but once these engines start going bang and TVR start charging for the rebuild..... ?
Now I have a few questions to come from all this...
Firstly, if the problem is as widespread and regular as it appears to be, why hasn't the motoring press caught onto it? I don't rememeber seeing any news articles in any Autocar, Top Gear, Evo etc that have announced problems with the Speed Six engines? Surely there'd be some sort of announcement if it was as serious as it appears to be?
Secondly, if there are all these engines going bang, then what the hell is wrong with them! Surely with the number of engines going back up to Blackpool, even after a first (second?) rebuild, then TVR must have cottoned on to the reason why these engines keep dying and been able to work out a solution???
Finally.... and this is not ths sort of thing I want to be thinking about really, but ... - having just spec'd my car last week and put down my 10% on Friday, what are the chances of cancelling my order with any of my money being returned, or at least with no further costs involved..?
Anyways - that's a worst case scenario. I'm hoping lots of people are going to appear from the woodwork and tell me that its all just rumour and that there's nothing to worry about, right... right????
-andy-
Edited by sixspeed on Monday 29th October 10:21
Here we go again. I'm getting a bit fed up with people posting about the Tuscan's engine. Don't forget this engine was also used in the Cerbera. Tuscans have been around since about Feb last year - so you're not going to see very many with > 12 miles on them. Look to the Cerbera owners for that kind of mileage.
For example on this thread - geneward - you say your car is 22 months old - is that a Cerbera or Tuscan #1 ? angybeats - your car is a V8 Cerbera then, not even a speed 6 ?
Engines can go wrong, and they get rebuilt. Speed 6 engines have gone wrong and they have been rebuilt. There have been mods the valves and finger followers. The question I have about your figure of the number of engines at the factory is how many speed 6 engines were ever built ? I doubt there are that many engines at the factory now - maybe over the last two years 250 have been back. As for amount of time off the road - I know of one owner who had his car back in a week when the top end of the engine was replaced. I doubt he would have got his car back that quick if there were a lot of engines to fix.
I know more people without a problem than with a problem - and don't forget the people with the problems always shout the loudest.
For example on this thread - geneward - you say your car is 22 months old - is that a Cerbera or Tuscan #1 ? angybeats - your car is a V8 Cerbera then, not even a speed 6 ?
Engines can go wrong, and they get rebuilt. Speed 6 engines have gone wrong and they have been rebuilt. There have been mods the valves and finger followers. The question I have about your figure of the number of engines at the factory is how many speed 6 engines were ever built ? I doubt there are that many engines at the factory now - maybe over the last two years 250 have been back. As for amount of time off the road - I know of one owner who had his car back in a week when the top end of the engine was replaced. I doubt he would have got his car back that quick if there were a lot of engines to fix.
I know more people without a problem than with a problem - and don't forget the people with the problems always shout the loudest.
Ok, understand your concerns, but:
- 250 engines? From what I know of the situation, that's a ridiculous exaggeration.
- TVR in precarious financial situation? Don't have any concrete info so I'm not going to speculate. Even if they were someone would snap them up immediately if things went pear-shaped.
- Renault? Good one
The latest in a long list of potential purchasers that do the rounds on the rumour mills throughout the year. It may well be true, but personally I don't believe that one. One day one of these stories will be true as PW will want to retire. I would point out that so far this year I've heard that Ford, Daimler Chrysler and others have been sizing up TVR. I'm not about to pay much heed to these stories until I hear something a little more concrete because I've heard them all before for many years!
- Rebuilds. Annoying, particularly considering that you're spending over £40K on these things and a right pain in the ar$e as you're very unlikely to get a courtesy car. There are a number of people who've had to endure a number of rebuilts but the majority are not experiencing that. It's a sad state of affairs but at the end of the day it means you are without your car for a few weeks (average), then you get it back and all is well. Then you enjoy your car again. It's frustrating, but it's not the end of the world (and it's not unique to TVR!)
- 250 engines? From what I know of the situation, that's a ridiculous exaggeration.
- TVR in precarious financial situation? Don't have any concrete info so I'm not going to speculate. Even if they were someone would snap them up immediately if things went pear-shaped.
- Renault? Good one
The latest in a long list of potential purchasers that do the rounds on the rumour mills throughout the year. It may well be true, but personally I don't believe that one. One day one of these stories will be true as PW will want to retire. I would point out that so far this year I've heard that Ford, Daimler Chrysler and others have been sizing up TVR. I'm not about to pay much heed to these stories until I hear something a little more concrete because I've heard them all before for many years! - Rebuilds. Annoying, particularly considering that you're spending over £40K on these things and a right pain in the ar$e as you're very unlikely to get a courtesy car. There are a number of people who've had to endure a number of rebuilts but the majority are not experiencing that. It's a sad state of affairs but at the end of the day it means you are without your car for a few weeks (average), then you get it back and all is well. Then you enjoy your car again. It's frustrating, but it's not the end of the world (and it's not unique to TVR!)
Well, for two main reasons - the revisions that have been carried out on the latest Tuscans re suspension geometry, engine (?!), etc
And secondly, because I want as long a warranty as I can get!!
Also, I managed to get one of the last 4.0 Tuscans. If I'd put off my new buy any longer, I'd have ended up with the 3.6 (though maybe thats the "fix" for the problems with the previous Tuscans...!! :-/ )
-andy-
And secondly, because I want as long a warranty as I can get!!
Also, I managed to get one of the last 4.0 Tuscans. If I'd put off my new buy any longer, I'd have ended up with the 3.6 (though maybe thats the "fix" for the problems with the previous Tuscans...!! :-/ )
-andy-
Hi, Forum Idiot here.
Yes, I'm one of the idiots who gets fed up with the 'TVR are crap cos they aren't built like a Toyota' winges. Lets not forget hand built cars are not going to have the built quality of a robot built production line car - however note the comments re the new Mini not being 'a proper one' because it is too 'BMW'. (Oh and I own and regularly drive TVRs).
There is no doubt that some people have problems and that there are real issues and concerns with the S6 engines, however what I would like to get feedback on is what the current issues with the S6 engines are. Are failures still down to cam follower problems ? I would have thought they should be history by know and once replaced the engine would be ok. If so what are the problems that have caused multiple rebuilds ? Any info anyone ?
Edited by JSG on Sunday 28th October 22:09
Edited by JSG on Sunday 28th October 22:10
Yes, I'm one of the idiots who gets fed up with the 'TVR are crap cos they aren't built like a Toyota' winges. Lets not forget hand built cars are not going to have the built quality of a robot built production line car - however note the comments re the new Mini not being 'a proper one' because it is too 'BMW'. (Oh and I own and regularly drive TVRs).
There is no doubt that some people have problems and that there are real issues and concerns with the S6 engines, however what I would like to get feedback on is what the current issues with the S6 engines are. Are failures still down to cam follower problems ? I would have thought they should be history by know and once replaced the engine would be ok. If so what are the problems that have caused multiple rebuilds ? Any info anyone ?
Edited by JSG on Sunday 28th October 22:09
Edited by JSG on Sunday 28th October 22:10
Steve! Didn't know you were on this board. Bit late to ring you now mate, but I'll give you a bell/email tomorrow.
I'm still well up for getting the Tuscan! Its just a shame that these "horror" stories won't go away. I'd second the request for information on the engine issues though. I'm under exactly the same thinking in that if these engines are going back for rebuilds, and blowing up for a second time then what the heck is the problem with them? Can't TVR work it out and put a final solution in place??
I'm far from one to expect Jap-style build quality from the car. I'm buying this car *expecting* the engine to die and go back for a rebuild. But what I'd like to be sure of is that eventually the problem is fixed, and that it doesn't become a regular thing every 8-10k miles! Its all very well getting a warranty rebuild, but after two years is up and the engine blows for the third/forth..etc time... I know I'm not going to be happy forking out xxx amount of quid to have it replaced.
I'd just like confirmation that TVR know what is causing these engine failures and is able to repair it, FOC, so that it *never* happens again (or at least within a respectable time frame!)
-andy-
I'm still well up for getting the Tuscan! Its just a shame that these "horror" stories won't go away. I'd second the request for information on the engine issues though. I'm under exactly the same thinking in that if these engines are going back for rebuilds, and blowing up for a second time then what the heck is the problem with them? Can't TVR work it out and put a final solution in place??
I'm far from one to expect Jap-style build quality from the car. I'm buying this car *expecting* the engine to die and go back for a rebuild. But what I'd like to be sure of is that eventually the problem is fixed, and that it doesn't become a regular thing every 8-10k miles! Its all very well getting a warranty rebuild, but after two years is up and the engine blows for the third/forth..etc time... I know I'm not going to be happy forking out xxx amount of quid to have it replaced.
I'd just like confirmation that TVR know what is causing these engine failures and is able to repair it, FOC, so that it *never* happens again (or at least within a respectable time frame!)
-andy-
The last time I heard a rumour about engines at the factory, from a reliable dealer source, there were 48 awaiting repair. Also, my dealer tells me that the warranty on a Tamora S6 is 2 years - that reflects either faith in the engine, or a desire to ensure problems are addressed without too much customer pain. Is that so bad an attitude?
rover v8`s go bang to,my griff 500 engine is currently being rebuilt at tvr power,at a cost of 4.5k,at only 7000 miles,the car has spent 2 out of 7 months in the garage.however after hearing and seeing a beautiful silver chim at the weekend i just cant wait to get my griff back on the road.
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