Worried About Winter
Discussion
I love my Tuscan.
When I bought the car, my only nagging doubt was what would it be like in the winter? Poor visibility, a back window that's gonna get all steamed up, and moreover all that power with so little weight and no safety aids at all... combine it with a wet road and it sounds a tad stressful to me. Oh yeah, and the roof leaking!
But still - I figured the summers, springs and autumns would be great, so no big deal. I don't need the car for work and my husband's got a new Cooper S if we need grippy safe driving in the wet.
However, following a long drive last weekend (in perfect dry sunny conditions) which covered straight flat fast motorway stretches and also many twisty country back roads, I have some serious concerns about driving this car in any kind of 'spiritied' manner - which is something I had very much hoped to do when I bought it.
On my drive I was taking some lovely twisty back roads, but I found myself cornering MUCH slower that I ever used to in my V8 MGB (which also had no driver aids, and also significant power through the rear wheels, so it's not like I'm some pampered modern driver reliant on ABS etc.). The Tuscan's chassis is so light, it seemed to get unstable over the slightest bump in the road or change in camber. I had a more enjoyble drive on the twisty bits in my old MG - a car hardly renowned for great handling! On roads like that handling and stability are king, not pure grunt, and I really feel that's the Tuscan's major let down.
However, probably more of a concern is that I even found the back end twitching on the motorway - at one point I hit a crack in surface and rather than eat it up or even just travel over it in abone-shaking fashion uncomfortable for the driver (as I had expected), the Tuscan got very unstable, it felt like a wheel or two left the road. Not fun at 'motorway speeds'!
I love this car, but I really don't want to kill myself in it. Do I need driver training (for going in a straight line on the motorway??), do I need suspension upgrades, better tyres, a sack of sand in the boot or what? Or do I need to get a Suburu Impreza?!
When I bought the car, my only nagging doubt was what would it be like in the winter? Poor visibility, a back window that's gonna get all steamed up, and moreover all that power with so little weight and no safety aids at all... combine it with a wet road and it sounds a tad stressful to me. Oh yeah, and the roof leaking!
But still - I figured the summers, springs and autumns would be great, so no big deal. I don't need the car for work and my husband's got a new Cooper S if we need grippy safe driving in the wet.
However, following a long drive last weekend (in perfect dry sunny conditions) which covered straight flat fast motorway stretches and also many twisty country back roads, I have some serious concerns about driving this car in any kind of 'spiritied' manner - which is something I had very much hoped to do when I bought it.
On my drive I was taking some lovely twisty back roads, but I found myself cornering MUCH slower that I ever used to in my V8 MGB (which also had no driver aids, and also significant power through the rear wheels, so it's not like I'm some pampered modern driver reliant on ABS etc.). The Tuscan's chassis is so light, it seemed to get unstable over the slightest bump in the road or change in camber. I had a more enjoyble drive on the twisty bits in my old MG - a car hardly renowned for great handling! On roads like that handling and stability are king, not pure grunt, and I really feel that's the Tuscan's major let down.
However, probably more of a concern is that I even found the back end twitching on the motorway - at one point I hit a crack in surface and rather than eat it up or even just travel over it in abone-shaking fashion uncomfortable for the driver (as I had expected), the Tuscan got very unstable, it felt like a wheel or two left the road. Not fun at 'motorway speeds'!
I love this car, but I really don't want to kill myself in it. Do I need driver training (for going in a straight line on the motorway??), do I need suspension upgrades, better tyres, a sack of sand in the boot or what? Or do I need to get a Suburu Impreza?!
What are your tyre pressures ? It should be 22 front, 24psi rear. See how that feels and you could change it up a couple of PSI if you want it firmer.
Also get a full 3D wheel alignment done to the factory settings. Check with Mark(previous owner) if he had it done. Are your tyres wearing evenly ?
With the fast steering and firm suspension it is a twitchy car to drive fast over bumpy roads, and much more concentration is required than a normal car.
You should also look at doing a trackday or getting advanced driving instruction, which will help with all cars not just the Tuscan.
Cheers
Whitey
Also get a full 3D wheel alignment done to the factory settings. Check with Mark(previous owner) if he had it done. Are your tyres wearing evenly ?
With the fast steering and firm suspension it is a twitchy car to drive fast over bumpy roads, and much more concentration is required than a normal car.
You should also look at doing a trackday or getting advanced driving instruction, which will help with all cars not just the Tuscan.
Cheers
Whitey
I fully sympathise with you.
I had an M Roadster with 321bhp before the Tuscan and the 2 cars are like chalk and cheese.
I found the Tuscan so intimidating and the only car that I had ever driven which I didn't get used to very quickly.
Believe me the confidence will come and you will learn to hustle the car very well, even when it is wet!
I have done a couple of track days and on both days I started out being average and ended the day fastest (including scoobys and bike engined Westfields etc).
I have also had traction control fitted to my car and that really DOES inspire confidence whilst letting hold the tail out under power with your foot flat (it took my a while to over ride my brain on that one!).
I can truly say now that after 4 months ownership that I can drive this car faster than anything I have ever driven, including cars like Caterhams, Scoobies, EVO 6s, Ferrari 360, Lotus Elise and Exige.
Stick with it and let the car come to you as it will in time.
>> Edited by damo m on Thursday 10th April 12:50
I had an M Roadster with 321bhp before the Tuscan and the 2 cars are like chalk and cheese.
I found the Tuscan so intimidating and the only car that I had ever driven which I didn't get used to very quickly.
Believe me the confidence will come and you will learn to hustle the car very well, even when it is wet!
I have done a couple of track days and on both days I started out being average and ended the day fastest (including scoobys and bike engined Westfields etc).
I have also had traction control fitted to my car and that really DOES inspire confidence whilst letting hold the tail out under power with your foot flat (it took my a while to over ride my brain on that one!).
I can truly say now that after 4 months ownership that I can drive this car faster than anything I have ever driven, including cars like Caterhams, Scoobies, EVO 6s, Ferrari 360, Lotus Elise and Exige.
Stick with it and let the car come to you as it will in time.
>> Edited by damo m on Thursday 10th April 12:50
Get yourself on a trackday as soon as you can to get a feel for how the car handles in more extreme circumstances. Even better, book yourself for a Ride Drive course. It's surprising how quick you can chuck a Tuscan around corners once you know when and when not to put the power down.
I've only been on one trackday in my Tuscan so far, and of course I managed to spin it first time out
but it taught me a valuable lesson on where the car's limits are without ending up in a hedge 
After that I got faster and faster around the track without any more scares.
I've only been on one trackday in my Tuscan so far, and of course I managed to spin it first time out
but it taught me a valuable lesson on where the car's limits are without ending up in a hedge After that I got faster and faster around the track without any more scares.Get yourself on a track. You'd be amazed how much traction there is, and much you never use on the road. You have to go slower when it's cold, but I find the limits still fairly high.
It's taken me at least 18 months to get used to the slightly "wired" feel the car has. But once you realise the car goes where you point it and understand when you do / do not need to steer the car (not the same as other cars as the steering is so quick) you can really hussle this baby along. When you get it right I think it has a real delicacy to it at speed.
Cheers,
Andy.
P.S. I drive mine every day of the year. Including in the snow last winter!
It's taken me at least 18 months to get used to the slightly "wired" feel the car has. But once you realise the car goes where you point it and understand when you do / do not need to steer the car (not the same as other cars as the steering is so quick) you can really hussle this baby along. When you get it right I think it has a real delicacy to it at speed.
Cheers,
Andy.
P.S. I drive mine every day of the year. Including in the snow last winter!
Girlracer,
Notice that your car is a 2000 like mine. Mine really suffered from bumpsteer,tramlining,general instability and driving it quickly always felt like a contest between good sense and pride, every imperfection in the road etc. Had the geometery checked, tyre pressure set up but to no avail.
Had the suspension changed to the RR spec (springs,shocks,larger anti-rollbar) and the car was transformed. I had been waiting for the 'nitrons' which were in development at the time but ran out of patience, they are available now and are a superior prouduct for about the same price (about 1K.)
Best thing to do would be to get a drive over a road you know your car struggles with in a newer or RR equipped car and see what you think of the difference.
Notice that your car is a 2000 like mine. Mine really suffered from bumpsteer,tramlining,general instability and driving it quickly always felt like a contest between good sense and pride, every imperfection in the road etc. Had the geometery checked, tyre pressure set up but to no avail.
Had the suspension changed to the RR spec (springs,shocks,larger anti-rollbar) and the car was transformed. I had been waiting for the 'nitrons' which were in development at the time but ran out of patience, they are available now and are a superior prouduct for about the same price (about 1K.)
Best thing to do would be to get a drive over a road you know your car struggles with in a newer or RR equipped car and see what you think of the difference.
Hi Girlracer,
I've only had my Tuscan a short while having come from an Escort Cosworth. You may have seen my previous post on my misgivings on the standard Tuscan suspension setup. I am finding the same problem as you - i.e. no subtlety to the setup at all. To me the damping feels too hard and bumps are not really soaked up by the suspension to any significant degree.
This ulta-hard set up is I'm sure fantastic on track, but on bumpy B roads it does you no favours whatsoever crashing over the bumps and crashing through into the cabin. I know my Cosworth was just superb over the same surfaces, which has left me more than a little disappointed in this respect.
The suggestions in here that I received from Nick and others was to change to a better setup with Nitrons.
On the flat, the Tuscan is a joy, but over the bumps I'm finding it's a bit of a handful and a tad unenjoyable when you are trying to steer around every little surface imperfection.
Others also mentioned that the standard shocks are a bit poor and can wear out in 5000 miles. That's definitely one for the survey if this has happened to you as that should just not happen full stop.
Still I do love the thing to bits...
I've only had my Tuscan a short while having come from an Escort Cosworth. You may have seen my previous post on my misgivings on the standard Tuscan suspension setup. I am finding the same problem as you - i.e. no subtlety to the setup at all. To me the damping feels too hard and bumps are not really soaked up by the suspension to any significant degree.
This ulta-hard set up is I'm sure fantastic on track, but on bumpy B roads it does you no favours whatsoever crashing over the bumps and crashing through into the cabin. I know my Cosworth was just superb over the same surfaces, which has left me more than a little disappointed in this respect.
The suggestions in here that I received from Nick and others was to change to a better setup with Nitrons.
On the flat, the Tuscan is a joy, but over the bumps I'm finding it's a bit of a handful and a tad unenjoyable when you are trying to steer around every little surface imperfection.
Others also mentioned that the standard shocks are a bit poor and can wear out in 5000 miles. That's definitely one for the survey if this has happened to you as that should just not happen full stop.
Still I do love the thing to bits...
I'd definately get a full alingment check done on the suspension.
Mine scared the sh*t out of me when it was brand new as it left the factory so far out of align is was untrue.
The dealer had a go and the chief mechanic scared himself witless and sent it to a race prep place near them. All 4 wheels were well out.
The differance is astonishing, although you still nedd to be on the ball!
Mine scared the sh*t out of me when it was brand new as it left the factory so far out of align is was untrue.
The dealer had a go and the chief mechanic scared himself witless and sent it to a race prep place near them. All 4 wheels were well out.
The differance is astonishing, although you still nedd to be on the ball!
Hi girlracer
woman to woman, dont give up. I came out of a Porsche last Oct and for the first couple of weeks was scared stiff of the Tusc. Now having driven it every day for work except two really bad snow days I love it I must admit I havent experienced what you have which leads me to suspect steering/tyre/suspension prob which your dealer should be able to sort. Ihad the Tamorra steering fitted which is just fantastic very stable and responsive. Stick with it, you wont regret it.If you fancy a chat off thread just e-mail me. Good luck
woman to woman, dont give up. I came out of a Porsche last Oct and for the first couple of weeks was scared stiff of the Tusc. Now having driven it every day for work except two really bad snow days I love it I must admit I havent experienced what you have which leads me to suspect steering/tyre/suspension prob which your dealer should be able to sort. Ihad the Tamorra steering fitted which is just fantastic very stable and responsive. Stick with it, you wont regret it.If you fancy a chat off thread just e-mail me. Good luck
www.carlimits.com is very good training if you want airfield stuff. At least you can practise spinning if you overstep the limit without the risk of ending up in the kitty litter and stopping everyone elses track day. Also the instructor Walshy is particularly good, used to be a Beneton test driver.
GaryF said: lady topaz,
Your leccy steering from the Tamora - did you spec that from new or get it fitted at the factory later?
Cost?
Gary.
Hi GaryF. When I first test drove the Tusc I found the steering heavy. Dealer brought Tamora round and asked me to try. IMHO much more responsive. He said they were toying with the idea of fitting it to Tuscs, and if the factory was willing would I mind being a guinea pig. The rest is history. Dont know if this is now the norm. I have had no probs and well pleased.
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions guys. I suppose I'll have to look into upgrading the suspension and maybe also getting traction control, but prior to all that some driver training would no doubt help me regain some confidence in the beast. Still a bit upset at the thought that I need to spend another £2k or so on the car just to make it feel like it's not going to blow away!
During today's Tuscan convoy run, I experienced exactly the same problems as I had last weekend. Really severe tramlining under even moderate braking and a really skittish feel at any speed above 50. I was able to get much faster on a very straight stretch of the M3, but that amazing rollercoaster stretch of the A3 towards Farnham was tainted by the inability to keep up with everyone else! Any time I put my foot down the car would start fighting with me over which direction we were heading, to the point where I was struggling to not drift lanes. I must've looked like a drunk driver! 
PS: ladytopaz, I don't find the Tuscan steering heavy at all - I drove classics before this so it seems effortless in comparison.
>> Edited by girlracer on Monday 14th April 01:26
During today's Tuscan convoy run, I experienced exactly the same problems as I had last weekend. Really severe tramlining under even moderate braking and a really skittish feel at any speed above 50. I was able to get much faster on a very straight stretch of the M3, but that amazing rollercoaster stretch of the A3 towards Farnham was tainted by the inability to keep up with everyone else!
Any time I put my foot down the car would start fighting with me over which direction we were heading, to the point where I was struggling to not drift lanes. I must've looked like a drunk driver! PS: ladytopaz, I don't find the Tuscan steering heavy at all - I drove classics before this so it seems effortless in comparison.
>> Edited by girlracer on Monday 14th April 01:26
Girl Racer it sounds like you need a four wheel lazer alingment as alredy suggested, and one other item I had fitted to mine to help the stability under breaking is a small lip spoiler on the front,which is just a piece of steel angle painted black, they use to be used on Griff's & Chim's to help the cooling air flow, but someone found another use for them on Tuscans
A set of Nitrons should be the next item on your shopping list as the standard dampers are not very good and possibility past their best by date by now.
Nick
A set of Nitrons should be the next item on your shopping list as the standard dampers are not very good and possibility past their best by date by now.
Nick
IMHO the standard Tuscan suspension setup is dreadful. I think mine is severely undersprung and probably overdamped to compensate. It feels harsh at low speeds over minor imperfections in the road. Then at speed it wallows over undulating roads where I'd expect it to be rock steady.
I am planning to upgrade to Nitrons quite soon, with a significant increase in spring rate. I'm lead to believe that the standard rate is < 200lb/in and upgrades are in the ~400lb/in rear and ~450lb/in front range.
My car is Sept 2002 age so it may have an "evolved" setup from the original 2000 cars, but I still think it's flawed.
I echo previous comments about getting a laser geometry check. I had mine checked less than 2 weeks after delivery and every corner was wrong. Correct geometry made a significant improvement but it still has a tendency to be skittish at speed and when braking. I think this is still being caused by bumpsteer - possibly a combination of dive under braking and incorrectly set toe in. A friend with a Lotus Elise has to get the geometry set with the car loaded up with the weight of passengers in order to get the settings correct. No such process was used with mine and I think it would be beneficial to do so.
Cheers, Donald.
I am planning to upgrade to Nitrons quite soon, with a significant increase in spring rate. I'm lead to believe that the standard rate is < 200lb/in and upgrades are in the ~400lb/in rear and ~450lb/in front range.
My car is Sept 2002 age so it may have an "evolved" setup from the original 2000 cars, but I still think it's flawed.
I echo previous comments about getting a laser geometry check. I had mine checked less than 2 weeks after delivery and every corner was wrong. Correct geometry made a significant improvement but it still has a tendency to be skittish at speed and when braking. I think this is still being caused by bumpsteer - possibly a combination of dive under braking and incorrectly set toe in. A friend with a Lotus Elise has to get the geometry set with the car loaded up with the weight of passengers in order to get the settings correct. No such process was used with mine and I think it would be beneficial to do so.
Cheers, Donald.
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