Speed Six Engine. What happens if it goes bang?
Discussion
Tuscanites, as you have probably gathered from my recent postings, I am over the moon with my new purchase. It is everything I could have hoped for and more. Much more.
But one thing is playing on my mind. I cannot help feeling a little bit nervy about the Speed Six engine. I know the early problems were down to the finger followers and that has been (and was before my Tuscan was built) resolved.
However, I am toying with the idea of a warranty even though in the normal course, I wouldn't bother. My concern is that if the engine does go pop, bang or whizz, the repair/replacement bill could be huuugggggee.
Presumably, a warranty company would not seek to argue that an engine going bang at 10K, 20K or 30K is attributable to normal "wear and tear". Or would they?!
I am going to be doing about 10K a year in the car (which I suspect is above average albeit that the bulk will be motorway miles) and wonder what the risks with the engine really are.
Should I bother with a warranty? Or should I now be able to sleep easy at night?
What are people with two year old plus Tuscans doing about protecting the car, if anything?
Cheers folks,
David
>>> Edited by cutmonster on Tuesday 18th March 15:53
But one thing is playing on my mind. I cannot help feeling a little bit nervy about the Speed Six engine. I know the early problems were down to the finger followers and that has been (and was before my Tuscan was built) resolved.
However, I am toying with the idea of a warranty even though in the normal course, I wouldn't bother. My concern is that if the engine does go pop, bang or whizz, the repair/replacement bill could be huuugggggee.
Presumably, a warranty company would not seek to argue that an engine going bang at 10K, 20K or 30K is attributable to normal "wear and tear". Or would they?!
I am going to be doing about 10K a year in the car (which I suspect is above average albeit that the bulk will be motorway miles) and wonder what the risks with the engine really are.
Should I bother with a warranty? Or should I now be able to sleep easy at night?
What are people with two year old plus Tuscans doing about protecting the car, if anything?
Cheers folks,
David
>>> Edited by cutmonster on Tuesday 18th March 15:53
i've also watched this topic with great interest cos i will be getting one as soon as i can.
it would appear to be general concencus that as long as you treat the engine with respect when cold (ie don't rev too high or labour it too low) then you should be fine.
oh and it also helps to keep all your fingers crossed at all times even when not driving!! :-)
it would appear to be general concencus that as long as you treat the engine with respect when cold (ie don't rev too high or labour it too low) then you should be fine.
oh and it also helps to keep all your fingers crossed at all times even when not driving!! :-)
For that kind of mileage a warranty would be no bad thing IMHO. It sounds like you are relying on your car as transport and not a toy - so you would want it back on the road ASAP if things go pear shaped. My Tuscan has around 15K on the clock and I probably do 3-4K per year. If the cost of a warranty is fixed regardless of mileage - it therefore would transpire that you would getter better value/peace of mind out of one than me. However, I am more dubious about the reliability of a warranty and how easily they pay up - than the reliability of the Speed Six unit!
I'd get a warranty, and get the best one you can.
This is what puts me off. To the point where I decided that if I buy a Speed Six engined car I will buy new/nearly new and sell before 2 years are up. This is probably why you see so many year 2000 cars for bargain prices.
I was told by a main dealer that the warranty companies don't pay for engines that go bang after 2 years (i.e. non factory warranty) if it looks remotely like wear and tear. The cam/followers problem is wear and tear ... = big bucks.
I understand (was told by a source) that TVR have modified the Speed Six head design in the T440R and this will be phased into the Tuscan/T350 engine build (not sure when). Soon I hope, I NEED a T350 Targa
This is what puts me off. To the point where I decided that if I buy a Speed Six engined car I will buy new/nearly new and sell before 2 years are up. This is probably why you see so many year 2000 cars for bargain prices.
I was told by a main dealer that the warranty companies don't pay for engines that go bang after 2 years (i.e. non factory warranty) if it looks remotely like wear and tear. The cam/followers problem is wear and tear ... = big bucks.
I understand (was told by a source) that TVR have modified the Speed Six head design in the T440R and this will be phased into the Tuscan/T350 engine build (not sure when). Soon I hope, I NEED a T350 Targa
There is no way I would run any decent car without a warranty, let alone a TVR where there are often higher than average additional costs. As soon as the warranty expires on my S2000, I'll extend it. The gearbox alone is something daft like £4K. The £350 the warranty costs is worth it for the peace of mind.
Like most things financial, insurance is really just a scam to make some money. I've never taken out optional insurance, and I never will. So far it's been saving me £100s every year. I'll get stung at some point, but over the years I will have saved money.
On the speed 6 issue I think the risk is related to the # of miles the car has done since the engine was last rebuilt. If it's high (say 12000 or more for arguments sake) I think the risk is lower that if it's low (say 4000 miles).
I've no idea what the total cost of a rebuilt would be (so I'll make it up and say £5k), but I do know a fish finger costs about £10.
Cheers,
Andy.
On the speed 6 issue I think the risk is related to the # of miles the car has done since the engine was last rebuilt. If it's high (say 12000 or more for arguments sake) I think the risk is lower that if it's low (say 4000 miles).
I've no idea what the total cost of a rebuilt would be (so I'll make it up and say £5k), but I do know a fish finger costs about £10.
Cheers,
Andy.
andyvdg said: ...
I've no idea what the total cost of a rebuilt would be (so I'll make it up and say £5k), but I do know a fish finger costs about £10.
That's an awful lot for the chips that go with it then
With two quite contradictory posts (on the face of it) clearly you are both correct. Insurance is a means to manage risk. In this event how to manage a potential future financial call.
First job is to evaluate your risk. To deal with this risk you can:
1) do nothing
2) prepare an emergency fund
3) buy an insurance policy (of sorts)
All options are perfectly feasible and are probably the same in principle whether you're considering your life, your retirment or a car or ship.
It's a personal decision which one is the most relevant to you, but there's always factors which we leap upon to justify one stance - like "I can't afford to" or "I use it every day so I need the back up".
What we really want to know, whether it is a worthwhile expense, we won't - until we have hindsight. But it would be interesting to know if any of the warranties are written such that they don't present good value for money - i.e. as we say..."not worth the paper they're written on". The underwriters can only make money if they have accurately assessed the risk that they are taking on.
If the risk is low and spread across enough policyholders the premium will be low - therefore it will be good value for money.
If the risk is high, the premium will be high - but it will still present good value for money, because the event is so much more likely to happen.
Either way, the insurance is a fair price.
The only time it is not a fair price is if:
a) the underwriters get it wrong (in which case they will be out of business, and none of us will benefit)
b) there is not enough underwriters in the market and a monopoly allows the underwriters to overcharge.
So
don't take the warranty if it has too many and unfair restrictions, there are too few underwriters offering this cover or they don't have a good track record ogf correctly assessing the risks they underwrite.
Have had two rebuilds of my S6 engine so unfortuantly have been through the mill with this !
Warranty Holdings have twice failed to pay ANY money out for engine rebuilds citing wear and tear.
Rebuilds are expensive £2-5k and you may get swindled by your dealer into removing and shipping the engine to blackpool rather than just taking the car up there resulting in another £1.5k. Note : this only happened once !
A full TVRSH is kindly looked on by TVR and they may well assist with payments, even if your engine is out of warranty.
Expect to lose your car for 2-3 months
It would seem the engine problems aren't over as my engine is currenlty in a large queue, waiting for engine parts which need replacing because yet another faulty batch of parts were used.
Warranty Holdings have twice failed to pay ANY money out for engine rebuilds citing wear and tear.
Rebuilds are expensive £2-5k and you may get swindled by your dealer into removing and shipping the engine to blackpool rather than just taking the car up there resulting in another £1.5k. Note : this only happened once !
A full TVRSH is kindly looked on by TVR and they may well assist with payments, even if your engine is out of warranty.
Expect to lose your car for 2-3 months
It would seem the engine problems aren't over as my engine is currenlty in a large queue, waiting for engine parts which need replacing because yet another faulty batch of parts were used.
andyvdg said:
On the speed 6 issue I think the risk is related to the # of miles the car has done since the engine was last rebuilt. If it's high (say 12000 or more for arguments sake) I think the risk is lower that if it's low (say 4000 miles).
As someone who is hoping to move from a Griff to a Tuscan over the coming months this statements scares me...
I tend to treat the speed 6 question the same as the TVR's are unreliable question, but this statement seems to suggest that a rebuild is something that needs to be budgeted for as it will happen rather than something that may happen and it's a bit of a bugger if it does.
Do these engines really need a rebuild every X thousand miles...
Cheers
DC
Dai Capp said:
Do these engines really need a rebuild every X thousand miles...
Also as someone with desires.....
No no no!!!
Let's face it, we are talking about the tried and tested technology of the internal combustion engine. With a batch of parts that, admitedly, were dodgier than a jammy dodger on a dodgem in dodgyville, the roller coaster of urban myth has transformed a problem into a crisis.
People know what could go wrong and are still purchasing with their eyes open - and the majority seem to me to be pretty satisfied!
As someone who can barely afford an early Griff, I think buying cars that go pop to the tune of £5k every xxx miles is nuts!! I was at SFR in stockport this week and Shane had a Tuscan in that just had a rebuild at TVR power. Ouch! Now if someone could get a Rover 5.2 in a Tuscan shell....
Dai Capp said:
andyvdg said:
On the speed 6 issue I think the risk is related to the # of miles the car has done since the engine was last rebuilt. If it's high (say 12000 or more for arguments sake) I think the risk is lower that if it's low (say 4000 miles).
As someone who is hoping to move from a Griff to a Tuscan over the coming months this statements scares me...
I tend to treat the speed 6 question the same as the TVR's are unreliable question, but this statement seems to suggest that a rebuild is something that needs to be budgeted for as it will happen rather than something that may happen and it's a bit of a bugger if it does.
Do these engines really need a rebuild every X thousand miles...
Cheers
DC
I was talking about risk not certainty. I could have said something bolder like "if the engine has lasted 12000 miles it won't go bang" but there is always an exception to prove the rule.
Editted to say mine has done 12500 and not gone bang.
All types of engine can go bang. In fact all engines will go bang after a certain number of miles e.g. a lot!
>> Edited by andyvdg on Wednesday 19th March 18:02
>> Edited by andyvdg on Wednesday 19th March 18:05
I'll tell you what, I may have to go down the buy one and see route because they are a bit special and I'm in danger of sounding tlike all the people who p155 me off when they accuse my Griff of being unreliable...
Incidently, anyone know anything about a yellow one
W XXX TYD or a grey one X XXX XCL, both for sale at a local dealer, forewarned may be forarmed as they say...
cheers
DC
Incidently, anyone know anything about a yellow one
W XXX TYD or a grey one X XXX XCL, both for sale at a local dealer, forewarned may be forarmed as they say...
cheers
DC
andyvdg said:-
errr! we have a volvo estate that's now done 170k miles and it's still running away a treat (famous last and all that!)
but then that is a volvo - exciting hey!
All types of engine can go bang. In fact all engines will go bang after a certain number of miles e.g. a lot!
errr! we have a volvo estate that's now done 170k miles and it's still running away a treat (famous last and all that!)
but then that is a volvo - exciting hey!
Dai Capp said: I'll tell you what, I may have to go down the buy one and see route because they are a bit special and I'm in danger of sounding tlike all the people who p155 me off when they accuse my Griff of being unreliable...
That's the spirit - Sir, with a determination and stiff-upper-lip-attitude like that you deserve a TVR!!!
Ron, I agree entirely with your very succint analysis of the merits of warranties.
What has put me off from buying a warranty is the very obvious experiences reported on this thread that the warranty company seems to view Speed Six engines going pop at a ridiculously low mileage as "fair wear and tear".
I should add that quite independent of a warranty claim, the phrase "fit for the purpose" springs to mind of the Speed Six.
Mind you, I spoke at length with Fish recently who has very carefully researched the topic and is of the opinion that apart from the dodgy batch of finger followers, the Speed Six is an inherently sound motor. After all (as Fish said to me) it was in the Cerbie for a fair while before the Tuscan hit the streets.
So I sleep easier at nights now and won't be troubling Warranty Holdings with my 500 odd quid for one of their products.
Would be interested to see what mileage (and experiences) early Cerbs now have.
What has put me off from buying a warranty is the very obvious experiences reported on this thread that the warranty company seems to view Speed Six engines going pop at a ridiculously low mileage as "fair wear and tear".
I should add that quite independent of a warranty claim, the phrase "fit for the purpose" springs to mind of the Speed Six.
Mind you, I spoke at length with Fish recently who has very carefully researched the topic and is of the opinion that apart from the dodgy batch of finger followers, the Speed Six is an inherently sound motor. After all (as Fish said to me) it was in the Cerbie for a fair while before the Tuscan hit the streets.
So I sleep easier at nights now and won't be troubling Warranty Holdings with my 500 odd quid for one of their products.
Would be interested to see what mileage (and experiences) early Cerbs now have.
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