racelogic traction control
Discussion
I know the above subject has received quite a bit of airtime on this site but I haven't seen a thread pertinent to Tuscans.
Has anyone fitted one of these systems to their car or know anyone else who has?
I'm sure that there will be a degree of backlash to this thread on the reasons why TVRs shouldn't be fitted with traction etc but Peter Wheeler himself has said that they are going to have to look at it for future models.
For me, the simple reason for considering it is that my wheels lost traction on a long sweeper this morning on a motorway whilst in 3rd and I had a very sideways moment at about 90mph!! I gathered it up and crapped myself (not necessarily in that order) and felt that me and the car had a certain value that TC may insure!!
Has anyone fitted one of these systems to their car or know anyone else who has?
I'm sure that there will be a degree of backlash to this thread on the reasons why TVRs shouldn't be fitted with traction etc but Peter Wheeler himself has said that they are going to have to look at it for future models.
For me, the simple reason for considering it is that my wheels lost traction on a long sweeper this morning on a motorway whilst in 3rd and I had a very sideways moment at about 90mph!! I gathered it up and crapped myself (not necessarily in that order) and felt that me and the car had a certain value that TC may insure!!
I was one of those against TC until I had a scary moment like you did. These cars are seriously powerful and not (comparitively) heavy. With low temperatures and wet weather, the winter driving experience can be ...........interesting. I broke traction/wind at 50 mph on a dual carriageway - and I was certainly not 'going for it'. I am sure TC would be useful (so long as it can be switched off for planned moments of sideways joy) - but no doubt expensive.
There you go - £2k including data logging. You really need to go for the adjust knob inside as well, so you can tune for wet, dry, track, gravel etc
shpub said: The details of fitting and my experiences are in the Griff/Chimaera/S series Bibles (2nd ed), and are also up on my website www.tvrbooks.co.uk in the sprint section.
It is fitted on my 520 road legal competition car. My shopping trolley Griff 500 doesn't have it as it is a diesel and a bit of a pussy cat compared to the 520. But I have taken part in over 150 sprints and have a mantelpiece of trophies so I probably have a bit more experience than most.
On the 520, it is excellent and only gets switched off when I want to tail out everywhere. I find it acts like a safety net so that if I slightly overstep the mark, it will dampen the car down so that I can recover it. No alternative for learning to drive but an effective safety net is how I see it.
I drive the car in the wet on a sprint in flat to the floor mode and the car stayed on the track due to the TC. Then drove in the same conditions with my normal style and I was 5 seconds faster because car balance etc is essential to fast times. If the TC is doing the work then the car is not balanced right and it is slow. I treat the TC and its data logs as a learning aid and a safety net.
With the current 520 incarnation, it is a godsend.
Cost about £2000 in total but depends on spec (I had the data logging and other whizzy bits) and the amount of work needed for the sensors and that was 4 years ago. Probably saved me several times that in body work repairs!
Needs a bit of settng up to get the right levels but it is awesome when working correctly. Enables me to really push the limits and by using the data logs I can tell how close I really was and use that to learn from.
. Still doesn't help if you go into the corner too quick though
. Wouldnt taking advanced driving instruction be of better value and probably more use. Remember its not the cars fault that it loses grip, its the drivers inability!
Can remember hitting a bad join in the tarmac on the A3 at 120mph and getting all 4 wheels off the ground. Cross wind blew car sideways and landed squiffy.....definitely broke wind and decided to take some lessons.
Can remember hitting a bad join in the tarmac on the A3 at 120mph and getting all 4 wheels off the ground. Cross wind blew car sideways and landed squiffy.....definitely broke wind and decided to take some lessons.
jedi said: Wouldnt taking advanced driving instruction be of better value and probably more use. Remember its not the cars fault that it loses grip, its the drivers inability!
I hear what you are saying ( I am a crap driver?) - but there are those infrequent occasions that can take the driver by surprise. Ever hit a patch of diesel on the road for an instant? No doubt the debate will rumble on concerning driver safety aids. I have had cars with ABS for the last 10 years - and can honestly say that it has only been of use on 1 occasion in covering 500,000 miles. But, I was glad on that occasion!
I wonder whether TVR are considering TC to make the cars faster point to point? In the same spirit that the fastest cars around a track often have superior brakes to some higher powered contestants. Getting the power down nicely and helping the driver out a litte if too much power comes on tap? If I was buying a new Tuscan and TC was an option I think I might at least take a look at it. £2000 sounds alot at first - but it is only the same cost as Tuscan Air Con.
damo m said: I'm booked in for an 'assessment' inspection on Monday with a firm in Luton. Racelogic were not aware of anyone who had it fitted to a TVR!
I'll let you know what they say but it does seem like it is going to cost about £1700+vat!!!
Strange, I thought there were at least two that have been done. Neither of the ones I know of are Tuscan Speed 6s though.
We have fitted TC to a few TVR's, but not the new Tuscan. I run a fairly powerful rear wheel drive car (Z3M -321bhp). I bought a powerful rear wheel drive because I like going sideways, but only when I want to, not when trying to pull out into fast moving traffic, which is where it comes into it's own. (This isn't a gratuitous plug here, just feedback from a "spirited" driver.)
I tend to drive on 20% slip, which is corresponds to about half a turn of opposite lock
Driving with it has given me much more confidence in the car and driving sideways in general, it teaches you to slide the car without letting it go big time. Fun without the fright. F1 drivers have said the same thing, but also note they wore their tyres out quicker, because they were constantly on the edge of traction.
If anyone wants a demo of the system, pop down to our offices and I'll take you for a spin (well hopefully not a spin!).
Manufacturer's TC systems are killjoys, race bread systems are designed to make the car go faster.
Julian Thomas
Managing Director
Racelogic
I tend to drive on 20% slip, which is corresponds to about half a turn of opposite lock
Driving with it has given me much more confidence in the car and driving sideways in general, it teaches you to slide the car without letting it go big time. Fun without the fright. F1 drivers have said the same thing, but also note they wore their tyres out quicker, because they were constantly on the edge of traction.
If anyone wants a demo of the system, pop down to our offices and I'll take you for a spin (well hopefully not a spin!).
Manufacturer's TC systems are killjoys, race bread systems are designed to make the car go faster.
Julian Thomas
Managing Director
Racelogic
I tend to drive on 20% slip, which is corresponds to about half a turn of opposite lock
Would I be right in thinking that at those slip levels, the car needs to be balanced on the throttle but the TC stops the wheels spinning up massively/unexpectedly so you at least have a decent chance to catch it?
Julian, what can your system do about a car that hits a corner too fast. Is it any help, or is there simply nothing that can be done? I can see how it would arrest a careless launch, or limit problems if a car is booted too enthusiastically out of a corner, but if you hit the apex too fast, my understanding is that you are f
d.
Most of the pro TC in the forums appear to look at it as a secondary safety device rather than a performance enhancement. From what I have said above, I can see how this would help in certain situations where grip is unexpectedly lost, but I think that the limitations of the system have to also be understood (which means that TVR ownership can still be limited to those that respect the cars and the dangers that come with them).
Must admit, would be fun to try around a track at the different settings. I'll give you a call when I finally get my Ultima.
d. Most of the pro TC in the forums appear to look at it as a secondary safety device rather than a performance enhancement. From what I have said above, I can see how this would help in certain situations where grip is unexpectedly lost, but I think that the limitations of the system have to also be understood (which means that TVR ownership can still be limited to those that respect the cars and the dangers that come with them).
Must admit, would be fun to try around a track at the different settings. I'll give you a call when I finally get my Ultima.
daydreamer said: Julian, what can your system do about a car that hits a corner too fast.
There is an option that immediately relays any prayers directly to the diety of your choice. Julian does magical things but even he can't change the laws of physics. Remember slow in fast out and fast in... crash.
Glad my understanding of the laws of physics is still reasonably intact. 
Wrong thread I know, but this is where I don't understand the if you fit TC then numpties will buy one arguement. TC can protect against acceleration errors, and a sudden lack of traction under acceleration - so would prevent what has become known as a Tuckshop Moment on the ultima forum (Floor it at the lights, exit junction going backwards).
Surely anybody interested in a TVR will understand that it is a handful and demands respect. I can't see the idea spreading that just because it has TC it is suddently safe.
Wrong thread I know, but this is where I don't understand the if you fit TC then numpties will buy one arguement. TC can protect against acceleration errors, and a sudden lack of traction under acceleration - so would prevent what has become known as a Tuckshop Moment on the ultima forum (Floor it at the lights, exit junction going backwards).
Surely anybody interested in a TVR will understand that it is a handful and demands respect. I can't see the idea spreading that just because it has TC it is suddently safe.
To be honest it is all about risk managment. Most drivers, especially those new to a "powerful rear wheel car" do not know how to drive their cars on the limit and will over step the line with too much welly. The TC system will let you get closer to that edge while reducing/removing the possibility of lososing it completely. That makes the car safer to drive. Note the R. All things are relative. Still doesn't take away the driver's responsibility etc etc.
The trouble is most drivers then start to rely on TC and other aids because they haven't learnt the basic techniques to complement what the TC does. The TC becomes magical and the incentive to learn and improve goes away. In my experience, relying on TC and not improving your skills means that you will never be a quick or safe driver.
I have to say it taught a lot more about being on the edge than many other things have because I can control where that edge is, and learn how the cars feels at that point without being too apprehensive. Getting that feel is importent in understanding what is going on and how to respond to it.
Absolutely no regrets in getting it at all.
Steve
The trouble is most drivers then start to rely on TC and other aids because they haven't learnt the basic techniques to complement what the TC does. The TC becomes magical and the incentive to learn and improve goes away. In my experience, relying on TC and not improving your skills means that you will never be a quick or safe driver.
I have to say it taught a lot more about being on the edge than many other things have because I can control where that edge is, and learn how the cars feels at that point without being too apprehensive. Getting that feel is importent in understanding what is going on and how to respond to it.
Absolutely no regrets in getting it at all.
Steve
The way our TC works is a a back up safety device, not a primary one. You still have to have a degree of respect with a car such as a TVR, the TC will only maximise the grip, not increase it.
Setup right it can enhance exit speeds of corners, and allow you to control a tailslide much more easily, without the pain of getting it wrong. It really provdes a safety buffer between sliding and spinning.
JT
Setup right it can enhance exit speeds of corners, and allow you to control a tailslide much more easily, without the pain of getting it wrong. It really provdes a safety buffer between sliding and spinning.
JT
Have you spoken to TVR with respect to adding it as standard or going through the dealer network with factory approval?
I get the impression that TVR are looking at increasing the appeal of their entire range and TC is quite a big option for a car of this type.
I for one would be interested as a retro fit
:rememberstheneedtorobabank:
I get the impression that TVR are looking at increasing the appeal of their entire range and TC is quite a big option for a car of this type.
I for one would be interested as a retro fit
:rememberstheneedtorobabank:
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