Some advice wanted. Feel a bit cheated.

[wildoliver]

I recently bought off ebay a 964 cup pipe, I won't mention where I bought it from due to N+S rules and also the fact they haven't totally finished dealing with the problem yet.

Basically it was bought on an auction not buy it now, from the account of a very major porsche specialist/tuners with a (I thought) very good reputation.

The listing stated it had light surface rust, it's stainless so I don't care, other than that it didn't say much, the picture showed it to be pretty clean, not really rusty but some evidence there so I expected they were pretty much like me when I sell and over describe problems so people are pleasantly surprised. Also visible in the picture were the two mounting brackets (glorified jubilee clips) which are essential as the original Porsche brackets for the exhaust box are too long.

The item arrived swiftly and was well packaged in a relatively new Dansk box so I was pretty excited when I opened it, only to find what can only be described as a heavily rusty, completely brown piece of pipe with no brackets, not what I bought at all.

I wish I could post the ebay page with the picture and a pic of what I received but it would be obvious who I bought it off.

So I immediately sent them a message expressing my dissapointment, and opened a paypal dispute, they messaged me back today:

the item picture sent is the same as listed however as listed on the item there is surface rust on it.The clips on the pipe were removed because they had been cut of to be removed from the car and no use to anyone anyway

Now not being funny but the above is a complete lie, I have eyes, and can see the two pipes are totally different items, unless the picture on ebay was taken before fitting the exhaust for 30-40,000 miles anyway, and surely if you photograph something that is obviously part of what you are selling you include all the parts photographed? How would a buyer of a car I was selling feel if they got there to find it had no tyres fitted because they were bald?

A cynical mind would suggest they had 2 of these pipes, and as the one I bought didn't sell for that much money they chose not to send the nice one pictured and sent instead an old manky one they felt fitted the price better, but I'm sorry I find the whole business very dissapointing and dishonest.

So really my next question is where to go from here, I am certainly going to wait for their reply from my last message, then I think I will have no choice but to escalate the dispute with paypal, there should be suitable grounds for a case through small claims court shouldn't there? It seems so absurd over a £50 item which I still want, I just want them to make a gesture of goodwill towards me having to buy some mounting brackets, and a bit of discount for the poorer quality item they sent. The other issue is I was looking very seriously at tuning the car later on this year, and one of the routes I may have been taking would have put a lot of money their way, but if you can't trust a company with a simple transaction like this would you really trust them with 5-6K of work on an engine?

[silver993tt]

How can s/steel rust? It doesn't rust - that's the whole point.

[wildoliver]

It does I'm afraid, it forms a protective coating of rust but then doesn't rust any further, of course different qualities of stainless rust less or more, and exhausts are notorious for the pipes getting corrosion due to the massive temperatures they reach, but usually the boxes stay shiny.

Obviously this classes just as a pipe as it takes out the box, but the condition shows it has done a fair bit of mileage to have collected as much rust as it has.

[kayc]

wildoliver said:

I recently bought off ebay a 964 cup pipe, I won't mention where I bought it from due to N+S rules and also the fact they haven't totally finished dealing with the problem yet.

Basically it was bought on an auction not buy it now, from the account of a very major porsche specialist/tuners with a (I thought) very good reputation.

The listing stated it had light surface rust, it's stainless so I don't care, other than that it didn't say much, the picture showed it to be pretty clean, not really rusty but some evidence there so I expected they were pretty much like me when I sell and over describe problems so people are pleasantly surprised. Also visible in the picture were the two mounting brackets (glorified jubilee clips) which are essential as the original Porsche brackets for the exhaust box are too long.

The item arrived swiftly and was well packaged in a relatively new Dansk box so I was pretty excited when I opened it, only to find what can only be described as a heavily rusty, completely brown piece of pipe with no brackets, not what I bought at all.

I wish I could post the ebay page with the picture and a pic of what I received but it would be obvious who I bought it off.

So I immediately sent them a message expressing my dissapointment, and opened a paypal dispute, they messaged me back today:

the item picture sent is the same as listed however as listed on the item there is surface rust on it.The clips on the pipe were removed because they had been cut of to be removed from the car and no use to anyone anyway

Now not being funny but the above is a complete lie, I have eyes, and can see the two pipes are totally different items, unless the picture on ebay was taken before fitting the exhaust for 30-40,000 miles anyway, and surely if you photograph something that is obviously part of what you are selling you include all the parts photographed? How would a buyer of a car I was selling feel if they got there to find it had no tyres fitted because they were bald?

A cynical mind would suggest they had 2 of these pipes, and as the one I bought didn't sell for that much money they chose not to send the nice one pictured and sent instead an old manky one they felt fitted the price better, but I'm sorry I find the whole business very dissapointing and dishonest.

So really my next question is where to go from here, I am certainly going to wait for their reply from my last message, then I think I will have no choice but to escalate the dispute with paypal, there should be suitable grounds for a case through small claims court shouldn't there? It seems so absurd over a £50 item which I still want, I just want them to make a gesture of goodwill towards me having to buy some mounting brackets, and a bit of discount for the poorer quality item they sent. The other issue is I was looking very seriously at tuning the car later on this year, and one of the routes I may have been taking would have put a lot of money their way, but if you can't trust a company with a simple transaction like this would you really trust them with 5-6K of work on an engine?

I can answer this very simply..all the Indies/Specialists/OPcs',call them what you like are out to fleece you..thats how they make money..ive said this for 2 years on this forum and been given loads of shit for saying it..chuck the pipe in the bin,move on and deal with private individuals if you can..i have read 4 threads in 2 days on this forum with various compaints about different indies/specialists..wake up everyone they are all the same.

[Vesuvius 996]

[Vesuvius 996]

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

[thegoose]

kayc said:

I can answer this very simply..all the Indies/Specialists/OPcs',call them what you like are out to fleece you..thats how they make money..ive said this for 2 years on this forum and been given loads of shit for saying it..chuck the pipe in the bin,move on and deal with private individuals if you can..i have read 4 threads in 2 days on this forum with various compaints about different indies/specialists..wake up everyone they are all the same.

If everyone only deals with private individuals as you suggest, does this mean that there will be a limited number of items forever in circulation, their condition deteriorating all the while and nothing new ever being sold?

[kayc]

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

[wanta996]

I have to agree AGAIN with Kay C here - i wont mention any dealers names but i was assured by one when looking at "A" car that if the RMS has been fixed on a 996 by an OPC then it will never occur again as Porsche have re-designed the part in question??

From what i have learned on the Forum - This is a complete lie.

[Vesuvius 996]

wanta996 said:

I have to agree AGAIN with Kay C here - i wont mention any dealers names but i was assured by one when looking at "A" car that if the RMS has been fixed on a 996 by an OPC then it will never occur again as Porsche have re-designed the part in question??

From what i have learned on the Forum - This is a complete lie.

There IS a redesigned seal. Mine leaked at 30k and has never leaved since.

[kayc]

Vesuvius 996 said:

wanta996 said:

I have to agree AGAIN with Kay C here - i wont mention any dealers names but i was assured by one when looking at "A" car that if the RMS has been fixed on a 996 by an OPC then it will never occur again as Porsche have re-designed the part in question??

From what i have learned on the Forum - This is a complete lie.

There IS a redesigned seal. Mine leaked at 30k and has never leaved since.

I think you'll find the 'tip' box slows the car sufficiently to stop any furhter rms leaks..

[bryn_p]

kayc said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

Does that make you the customer from the Harry Enfield sketch? You must have had your fingers very badly burned to be this bitter.
Why can't you just accept that there are good car dealers and bad car dealers, just as there are with companies in any line of business.

Why is acceptable for supermarkets to make billions selling us food at a profit, yet it isn't for a car dealer to sell a car at a profit? Maybe Porsche should just sell their cars at cost, would that make you happy?

Cheers,
Bryn.

[roop]

This sucks. If they wanted more money for it they should have set a reserve price or a higher start price, that's what they are there for. Hope you get it sorted out.

Save the eBay photo and also a screenshot of the eBay page (I have looked at the auction and the pipe looks pretty good) and snap a pic of the pipe you have been sent, just in case it gets dodgy.

[kayc]

bryn_p said:

kayc said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

Does that make you the customer from the Harry Enfield sketch? You must have had your fingers very badly burned to be this bitter.
Why can't you just accept that there are good car dealers and bad car dealers, just as there are with companies in any line of business.

Why is acceptable for supermarkets to make billions selling us food at a profit, yet it isn't for a car dealer to sell a car at a profit? Maybe Porsche should just sell their cars at cost, would that make you happy?

Cheers,
Bryn.

Anybody who has had lots of cars will have had their fingers burned and paid too much to buy through so-called professional channels to reduce the second-hand purchase risk..my point is that the risk of dealing with these people is higher than dealing privately.They have mastered the art of unscrupulous behaviour far more than any amateur could do.I have never in the ownership of 60 vehicles found a second-hand car good enough(at the right price)at any car dealer.Why sell a top car to a dealar at a discounted price..if its that good private buyers will want it at a higher price everytime..

[Henry-F]

If the photo in the advert was of a second hand part which matched the description but you were sent a different part from the photo then it seems fairly clear cup to me. The only time this wouldn`t be clear cut was someone selling a quantity of parts (such as railway sleepers for the garden, old sections of cast iron railing etc).

I`m not sure a cat (or silencer) bypass pipe would fall into this catagory. The advert would be a "buy it now" advert rather than an auction advert where you are clearly bidding for a specific lot, as described (and in this case it would seem photographed).

If the photo was simply take "artistically", then that`s a different matter.

Henry

[silver993tt]

bryn_p said:

kayc said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

Does that make you the customer from the Harry Enfield sketch? You must have had your fingers very badly burned to be this bitter.
Why can't you just accept that there are good car dealers and bad car dealers, just as there are with companies in any line of business.

Why is acceptable for supermarkets to make billions selling us food at a profit, yet it isn't for a car dealer to sell a car at a profit? Maybe Porsche should just sell their cars at cost, would that make you happy?

Cheers,
Bryn.

yes but when you have a problem with goods from a supermarket they will in nearly every case replace the item no questions asked (in my experience). That can't be said for car dealers. Sure, a car is much more valuable than a tin of baked beans but there's a hell of a lot more profit from a car.

[bryn_p]

kayc said:

bryn_p said:

kayc said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

Does that make you the customer from the Harry Enfield sketch? You must have had your fingers very badly burned to be this bitter.
Why can't you just accept that there are good car dealers and bad car dealers, just as there are with companies in any line of business.

Why is acceptable for supermarkets to make billions selling us food at a profit, yet it isn't for a car dealer to sell a car at a profit? Maybe Porsche should just sell their cars at cost, would that make you happy?

Cheers,
Bryn.

Anybody who has had lots of cars will have had their fingers burned and paid too much to buy through so-called professional channels to reduce the second-hand purchase risk..my point is that the risk of dealing with these people is higher than dealing privately.They have mastered the art of unscrupulous behaviour far more than any amateur could do.I have never in the ownership of 60 vehicles found a second-hand car good enough(at the right price)at any car dealer.Why sell a top car to a dealar at a discounted price..if its that good private buyers will want it at a higher price everytime..

I really don't want to get in to an argument over this as you will clearly never be able to rationally discuss car dealers, but do you buy your groceries direct from your local farmer? Did you buy your house privately?

Cheers,
Bryn.

[wanta996]

Vesuvius - There IS a redesigned seal. Mine leaked at 30k and has never leaved since.


Now i am even more confused - did i not hear that another Pistonheaders had his done 4 times and surely if it has been re-designed then the 997 should surely have the re-designed part??

[kayc]

bryn_p said:

kayc said:

bryn_p said:

kayc said:

Vesuvius 996 said:

And to the OP.

You know where they are. Forget it's an ebay transaction. Send them a letter telling them you'll sue them in the small claims court if they don't refund you.

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk is you friend.

Cheating fvcks.

Cheating fvcks for £50? But its alright when they make 20% profit on a shit car they sell you because 'they are a business and have to make money..?Car dealers are second only to antique/art dealers in my book..in fact the latest Harry Enfield sketch..'I saw you coming 'is so incredibly accurate..im surprised he didnt base it on a Porsche dealer however.

Does that make you the customer from the Harry Enfield sketch? You must have had your fingers very badly burned to be this bitter.
Why can't you just accept that there are good car dealers and bad car dealers, just as there are with companies in any line of business.

Why is acceptable for supermarkets to make billions selling us food at a profit, yet it isn't for a car dealer to sell a car at a profit? Maybe Porsche should just sell their cars at cost, would that make you happy?

Cheers,
Bryn.

Anybody who has had lots of cars will have had their fingers burned and paid too much to buy through so-called professional channels to reduce the second-hand purchase risk..my point is that the risk of dealing with these people is higher than dealing privately.They have mastered the art of unscrupulous behaviour far more than any amateur could do.I have never in the ownership of 60 vehicles found a second-hand car good enough(at the right price)at any car dealer.Why sell a top car to a dealar at a discounted price..if its that good private buyers will want it at a higher price everytime..

I really don't want to get in to an argument over this as you will clearly never be able to rationally discuss car dealers, but do you buy your groceries direct from your local farmer? Did you buy your house privately?

Cheers,
Bryn.

No because i get what it says on the tin/packet with my groceries..with most car dealers you dont..also i didnt buy my own residence privately either but the other 3 i did

Edited by kayc on Tuesday 15th May 14:51

[Vesuvius 996]

wanta996 said:

Vesuvius - There IS a redesigned seal. Mine leaked at 30k and has never leaved since.


Now i am even more confused - did i not hear that another Pistonheaders had his done 4 times and surely if it has been re-designed then the 997 should surely have the re-designed part??

There is a revised seal and a revised tool for inserting it...

My theory is that the people who have problems are getting it done outside of OPC and either getting the old seal, or the old tool, or both.