Discussion
floordoc said:
well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
OPCs take 10k (+/- 2k) out of the price. I am sure you have fired up the porsche used car locator and seen that your car would be offered at 44k + region (unless the colours were dodgy).
For a start I would call some indies and see what they offer to buy yours for.
I am not shocked as it's all been seen on here before, but I find it pretty disgusting.
edited to add:
sit down and look at this
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/cl
and
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=375682&r=5189473&hm=83160#5189473
Edited by 2something on Saturday 14th April 09:12
Rob_R said:
34K is low. No wonder you are unhappy. Should have offered you at least 40K for your car especially as you are paying top whack for a new one.
You say that as though paying top whack for a new one was something out of the ordinary. This is the first part of the OPC problem, in that there's very little for a salesman to do apart from tell you you're handsome and pass you a pen and a contract. This would be absolutely fine if Porsche did as they used to, which was to give excellent bids on your old Porsche in order to keep residuals high and control the supply of Pork in circulation. But they don't bother with that anymore for a number of reasons, not least the fact that the Germans are now throwing them off a variety of production lines in relatively enormous quantities. The biggest problem with Porsche residuals is over-supply IMO. I remember when I got my first Porsche, it made almost no sense to buy a second hand one as I could never find the spec I wanted, and they cost so much that it hardly seemed worth it if I didn't mind the delivery wait of 4-6 months. This was 1997, btw, so a while ago, but not exactly a million years ago.
floordoc said:
Thanks for your replies, 2Something the website looks a great tool.your right in your comments.
They don't need to do deals anymore and thats a shame.
On the day I visited they had in there showroom a 12 month old 997 C4S in white which they informed me was an iffy colour to resale and they wanted over 70k. Thats the basic new price. It makes me wonder what they would have offered me for the same car. Ive had enough cars in my life to understand car dealers but it still makes me sick that they make your used car worthless and tell you all the bad things about it, I did get the comment on first viewing of my car 'oh polished rims' but did'nt mention how that would affect the value.
Porsche dealers
They don't need to do deals anymore and thats a shame.
On the day I visited they had in there showroom a 12 month old 997 C4S in white which they informed me was an iffy colour to resale and they wanted over 70k. Thats the basic new price. It makes me wonder what they would have offered me for the same car. Ive had enough cars in my life to understand car dealers but it still makes me sick that they make your used car worthless and tell you all the bad things about it, I did get the comment on first viewing of my car 'oh polished rims' but did'nt mention how that would affect the value.
Porsche dealers60k would be my guess, though the one year old cars are tricky as some of them have 10k+ worth of options, some options keep their value whilst others are worthless the moment the car is off the forcourt.
Interestingly the guy I bought my Porsche off got 1k knocked off his 1 year old 997 C2s purchase price at the OPC when he decided not to part exchange his old car with them. They were offering him 10k under what they would have tried to sell it for, but still didn't want it !
Don't give up on your new car, just try and find a better bid for your old one ...
floordoc said:
Visited the uk headquarters yesterday in Reading and I must relay to all the great way I was treated. From the moment I arrived to the time I left they could not do enough for me which included a tour around the whole facility, would'nt let me drive either one of the carrera GTs they had in the service area but I did'nt ask. They have all the press cars there and I was informed that most of the cars from Germany pass through this place. The 911 is also the only Porsche that comes over by road on closed in car transporters via the tunnel.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
Selling it on in an opc for 37k thats insulting early cars of this type rarely sell for less than 40k at indy specialist, a quick search through their network would probally reveal thay dont have a car like that for less than 45k.
The bit in the service manual that tells you how best to "protect your investment" always makes me laugh, who's investment?
floordoc said:
Visited the uk headquarters yesterday in Reading and I must relay to all the great way I was treated. From the moment I arrived to the time I left they could not do enough for me which included a tour around the whole facility, would'nt let me drive either one of the carrera GTs they had in the service area but I did'nt ask. They have all the press cars there and I was informed that most of the cars from Germany pass through this place. The 911 is also the only Porsche that comes over by road on closed in car transporters via the tunnel.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
The is a dealership at the same location as porsche gb hq. it is not porsche hq that is operating the dealership.
From my dealings I always found Porsche Reading to be very fair, but if in doubt either call them back and say you need a bit more for yours to make the new one feasible or drive down the M4 to Swindon and see if they want to do you a deal. Or the one in Bournemouth is normally up for a deal.
Its the 38k mileage which reduces the price, realistically how much did you expect for it?
BTW why would you even suspect that they would let you drive in any customers carrera gt thats in for a service??
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Sunday 15th April 09:37
bennno said:
floordoc said:
Visited the uk headquarters yesterday in Reading and I must relay to all the great way I was treated. From the moment I arrived to the time I left they could not do enough for me which included a tour around the whole facility, would'nt let me drive either one of the carrera GTs they had in the service area but I did'nt ask. They have all the press cars there and I was informed that most of the cars from Germany pass through this place. The 911 is also the only Porsche that comes over by road on closed in car transporters via the tunnel.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
I was there to change my 2003 C4S for a 997 C4S so they priced my car as I was sorting out the spec and colour of a new one. Had a wonderful day, Like a child in a sweet shop surrounded by car parks full of GT3s Turbo's caymans and boxsters.
Anyway got the phone call today on the price for my car with 38000 miles full spec, manual and in A1 condition. I have had it for 4 months and paid 42k from a merc dealership.
Fearing the worsed asked the caller if I should sit down, no! no reason for that. well there was 34k and the car would go to one of there local OPC and would go on sale for 37k I think this is a stupidly low price and that has angered me that there is no lowering on the 80k car I was interested in buying.
The is a dealership at the same location as porsche gb hq. it is not porsche hq that is operating the dealership.
From my dealings I always found Porsche Reading to be very fair, but if in doubt either call them back and say you need a bit more for yours to make the new one feasible or drive down the M4 to Swindon and see if they want to do you a deal. Or the one in Bournemouth is normally up for a deal.
Its the 38k mileage which reduces the price, realistically how much did you expect for it?
BTW why would you even suspect that they would let you drive in any customers carrera gt thats in for a service??
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Sunday 15th April 09:37
Well I couldn't disagree with your comments about OPC Reading more......
I bought a Boxster S from them 4+ years ago for £36k......
I wanted to trade up to a C4S apparoximately 2 years ago (when most forecourts were selling my car for £28-30k). They offered me £18k.
I told them to f*ck off - and traded it elsewhere for £24k and got a better spec car for £5k less than their C4S at the time !
floordoc said:
So in a nutshell anyone willing to deal through an OPC is driving a mobile investment for these dealerships. A very cheap lesson learnt by me!
Lets just be clear that pistonheads operates a specific no naming and shaming policy which your posts naming a specific dealer are in direct contravention of.
Why come on here and slam them for a poor trade in bid when you appear to be too lazy to ask any alternate dealers for a competitive bid that would demonstrate whether their offer is reasonable or not?
Bear in mind opc's charge a premium price for used cars but every car ends up being serviced, potentially front end repaint plus any paintwork rectification, new tyres, all round wheel refurb, full opc check and any remedial work, full porsche warranty plus the dealership carries full liability for 90 days after sale. Given the above they normally look to make £6-£10k gross profit to offset these costs.
Also bear in mind that the £42k you paid a MB dealer for your C4S probably included a healthy chunk of margin for them, so whats to say the Merc garage didnt buy the car in 6 months ago for similar money? Why slam the porsche dealership for the margin the merc dealership made when they sold you the car....
Bennno
Edited by bennno on Sunday 15th April 18:46
Bennno's right; it is basically a name and shame because of a disappointing trade bid (and lack of negotiation on the new car). I will lock it but leave it up, simply because they showed you a decent day out before the figures came out! I also have to lock it because Porsche GB and Porsche Centre Reading are two separate companies, but the confusion isn't unjust; they are at the same site and can be difficult to separate in one's mind.
Finally, my 'Springer's Final Thought'... car dealers bidding low and selling high is no great mystery. Reading have very high prep standards even amongst other OPCs, e.g. they officially have to rebuild engines (or fastidiously repair them) when seals are 'sweating' rather than leaking. It always rankles getting a low bid, especially when you see your car sold the next day for a much higher price, but that's business. All you can do is be tough at purchase time, try and get the maximum price at resale by getting multiple bids on a well maintained and well specced car, look out for the slow depreciating cars (I bet Mk 1 996 GT3s don't go down much now) and don't change cars too often, as this is when car dealers make their money.
Finally, my 'Springer's Final Thought'... car dealers bidding low and selling high is no great mystery. Reading have very high prep standards even amongst other OPCs, e.g. they officially have to rebuild engines (or fastidiously repair them) when seals are 'sweating' rather than leaking. It always rankles getting a low bid, especially when you see your car sold the next day for a much higher price, but that's business. All you can do is be tough at purchase time, try and get the maximum price at resale by getting multiple bids on a well maintained and well specced car, look out for the slow depreciating cars (I bet Mk 1 996 GT3s don't go down much now) and don't change cars too often, as this is when car dealers make their money.
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