Advice needed! 996 TT vs. M6 vs. 997 C2S

[tiptoptoby]

Theoretically speaking if the car's requirements were:

1) Live in London (mix of on-street and garaged, Tesco trips etc.)
2) Very occasional 3-4 adults (roof rack for 911?) but predominantly 1 or 2 plus luggage
3) You were buying this on a budget so depreciation and running costs were considered (3-4 year ownership horizon)
4) Regular 3-4 hour drive weekend trips down M4
5) Am close to a decent selection of dealers for both marques
6) Prefer manual over SMG but SMG considered
7) My favourite drivers car that I have driven was Boxster S
8) People in my street bump-park

What would you all recommend? Any suggestions, owners advice, experience, running/repair costs, driving experience or whatever would be really appreciated.

Cheers

Toby

[guyvert1]

I'd say 997c2s based on above...

[MaKSiNG]

For some reason the M cars are really bad for depreciation and since this is one of the factors you mention.

In last month Evo mag there was an article on the P1 sports car club. The MD was being interviewed and said they expect the M6 to lose 47% of its initial value in the first year alone.

[loach]

Not the M6 anyway. Too heavy, too complicated, too expensive, too liable to go pop. Plus it has that stupid abomination of a gearbox and all the bullshit that implies with buttons and programmes and modes etc etc. An extremely sporty car, but not a sports car IMO. Second-hand, in a nice colour and at a bargain price, then I might feel differently. In fact - I probably would; though I'd then remember the gearbox and would go for a 911 anyway. It is a decent 4 seater, and as such is going to be easier to live with if you need a bit of space, than a 911. Of the other 2, it's Hobson's choice. 996 TT is simply staggeringly quick. But a nicely specced Carrera 997 is arguably a bit more fun, and more of a driver's car IMHO.

So if it was me - a 997.

[magic torch]

Yep, a manual 2WD 997.


With a sports exhaust too.

[996tt_stevo]

I would do a nice RS4

[Erik997]

Pretty much sums up my situation. Live in London, park on the street, use car as daily commute and for everyday living but want something for the occassional blast and general hooligan driving.

M6 is a money pit and whilst the 966TT may be faster, I'd recommend the 997C2S. There's lots of highly specced examples around the 50-53k mark.

[tiptoptoby]

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Sounds like the 997 has it (will have to try a 996TT though!). Erik - am looking at independents (Charles Ivey, Paragon, 911 Virgin, Gmund up north), do you have an experience with these dealerships or should I go main dealer?
Cheers
Toby

[kayc]

tiptoptoby said:

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Sounds like the 997 has it (will have to try a 996TT though!). Erik - am looking at independents (Charles Ivey, Paragon, 911 Virgin, Gmund up north), do you have an experience with these dealerships or should I go main dealer?
Cheers
Toby

Why go to any dealers unless youve got a spare £5-10k to throw away?.Most of the best cars are offered privately....ive never seen a car at any independent(unless its 25% overpriced or 2 weeks old)that meets the standards i require when buying second hand...And ive looked at lots

[Koln-RS]

Don't see the point in any of the cars you mention for 'street life' in London.

You won't get the full enjoyment and they will inevitably deteriorate.

If you have a garage, I'd buy something special that has already shed a large chunk of its value and a 'City' car for town - Mini Cooper, A-Class Merc, Prius, etc.

[Erik997]

tiptoptoby said:

Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Sounds like the 997 has it (will have to try a 996TT though!). Erik - am looking at independents (Charles Ivey, Paragon, 911 Virgin, Gmund up north), do you have an experience with these dealerships or should I go main dealer?
Cheers
Toby

Toby. The only good thing about OPCs is that they have a lot of stock so you can find your perfect car but otherwise I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a spare £8k that you want to spend purely for the priviledge of buying from a main dealer (I made that mistake once...). I won't be buying a used car from an OPC ever again.

If I was looking for a car I would be buying privately. You can save a huge stack of cash and still find what you're looking for. Both my 997s (I'm on my second) have been bullet proof and with a full Porsche warranty you can't go wrong (although no doubt someone will be along shortly with a horror story about their warranty...). However, you still have to know what you're doing to make sure you get the car checked out (HPI, accident damage, etc etc) and make sure it hasn't been thrashed to within an inch of its life. There are independents that do pre-purchase checks that are very useful. However, the biggest worry with buying privately is the fact that there is always that risk of dealing with a crook or buying a bent car so take advice if you're not 100% comfortable in what you're doing.

For this reason a lot of people look at the indys. If you're looking at this route then the first on my list would be 911virgin run by Henry (posts here under Henry-F). Good reputation and has sorted out a lot of people on PH with good cars. Only problem you may find is that a lot of indys (911virgin included) deal in slightly older (and cheaper) cars.

Hope this helps a bit. If you've any specific questions about the 997 (options, prices, etc) I'd be happy to answer.

Cheers - Erik

[gmk666]

I live in London and I'm now on my second 997. It's perfectly useable in traffic, although a quick press of the Sport setting on the suspension reveals just how bad roads have got around town.

tiptoptoby said:

8) People in my street bump-park

You will inevitably return to your car one day to find a U-shaped mess on the front PU, as cr@p parkers' bumpers tend to ride up them. I always have the pen and paper in my glovebox ready for the angry, but cathartic note.

[wrn]

MaKSiNG said:

For some reason the M cars are really bad for depreciation and since this is one of the factors you mention.

M5s and M6s are bad on depreciation - but M3s are great on depreciation.

The new M3 (Sept) will hold it's value well for a good few years - and good provide a viable option to add to the list in the title of this thread?

I think that I am going to get one... I had an E46 M3 Cab when they first came out and LOVED it. I have had 2x 997Ss and an AMV8 since... and the M3 still holds a special place in my heart. The hectic scream of that straight six is unique - though I recognise that the new one is a V8. Will be a great car all the same... and will give a 997 a run for its money (for £20k less).

[jonlwright]

loach said:

Not the M6 anyway. Too heavy, too complicated, too expensive, too liable to go pop. Plus it has that stupid abomination of a gearbox and all the bullshit that implies with buttons and programmes and modes etc etc. An extremely sporty car, but not a sports car IMO. Second-hand, in a nice colour and at a bargain price, then I might feel differently. In fact - I probably would; though I'd then remember the gearbox and would go for a 911 anyway. It is a decent 4 seater, and as such is going to be easier to live with if you need a bit of space, than a 911. Of the other 2, it's Hobson's choice. 996 TT is simply staggeringly quick. But a nicely specced Carrera 997 is arguably a bit more fun, and more of a driver's car IMHO.

So if it was me - a 997.

Hmm, I have just traded my 997 plus £18K in for a 996TT X50, it may be a year older but has 10K less miles and the 997 was £67K new and the 996TT was £110K new. I know I am going to suffer a £6K dealer margin loss out of the £18K, but I reckon with that to one side I am ending up with a lot more car for my money.

My opinion of course.

[freedman]

wrn said:

MaKSiNG said:

For some reason the M cars are really bad for depreciation and since this is one of the factors you mention.

M5s and M6s are bad on depreciation - but M3s are great on depreciation.

The new M3 (Sept) will hold it's value well for a good few years - and good provide a viable option to add to the list in the title of this thread?

I think that I am going to get one... I had an E46 M3 Cab when they first came out and LOVED it. I have had 2x 997Ss and an AMV8 since... and the M3 still holds a special place in my heart. The hectic scream of that straight six is unique - though I recognise that the new one is a V8. Will be a great car all the same... and will give a 997 a run for its money (for £20k less).

M3 values have bombed in the last 12 months, I know I've bought and sold (a very good one) in that time. They are decent cars but are just not as involving as driving a 911. In my experience they're dearer to run as well

[kayc]

freedman said:

wrn said:

MaKSiNG said:

For some reason the M cars are really bad for depreciation and since this is one of the factors you mention.

M5s and M6s are bad on depreciation - but M3s are great on depreciation.

The new M3 (Sept) will hold it's value well for a good few years - and good provide a viable option to add to the list in the title of this thread?

I think that I am going to get one... I had an E46 M3 Cab when they first came out and LOVED it. I have had 2x 997Ss and an AMV8 since... and the M3 still holds a special place in my heart. The hectic scream of that straight six is unique - though I recognise that the new one is a V8. Will be a great car all the same... and will give a 997 a run for its money (for £20k less).

M3 values have bombed in the last 12 months, I know I've bought and sold (a very good one) in that time. They are decent cars but are just not as involving as driving a 911. In my experience they're dearer to run as well

Did you buy and sell to your M3 to a dealer?..that would explain most of the loss.?

[freedman]

kayc said:

freedman said:

wrn said:

MaKSiNG said:

For some reason the M cars are really bad for depreciation and since this is one of the factors you mention.

M5s and M6s are bad on depreciation - but M3s are great on depreciation.

The new M3 (Sept) will hold it's value well for a good few years - and good provide a viable option to add to the list in the title of this thread?

I think that I am going to get one... I had an E46 M3 Cab when they first came out and LOVED it. I have had 2x 997Ss and an AMV8 since... and the M3 still holds a special place in my heart. The hectic scream of that straight six is unique - though I recognise that the new one is a V8. Will be a great car all the same... and will give a 997 a run for its money (for £20k less).

M3 values have bombed in the last 12 months, I know I've bought and sold (a very good one) in that time. They are decent cars but are just not as involving as driving a 911. In my experience they're dearer to run as well

Did you buy and sell to your M3 to a dealer?..that would explain most of the loss.?

No and no actually.

I knew I paid top dollar privately as it was the exact spec and colour combo I wanted probably paid 2k more than I could have got a similar car for but there were none about.

When I sold (earlier this month) there just wasnt the interest at a reasonable price, trouble was I had already seen the 996tt I wanted and needed to sell so I probably cost myself 1kish by not hanging on, it was only on here and BM3W for 2 weeks.

[Dr S]

I'd skip the M6 in your place. Where the M3CSL lives up to the expectations, I find the M6 to be an overly complicated and rather uninvolving machine. Depreciation is hell unless you buy an early second hand car.

The TT is a very capable machine but I personally prefer 2WD and an NA engine...

[tiptoptoby]

Thanks again everyone. I am sure the new V8 M3 will be a belter but I like cars to be out for a little while before jumping in.

I have never bought privately and am a little nervous about someone pulling a fast one so will probably go independent until I have a little more 911 expertise.

Are there any 997 horror stories or particular specs that are more resilient to depreciation (like sports chrono etc)?

Cheers

Toby

[rimmer]

either of the 911s probably because of the chronic depreciation and if depreciation is a major factor then take the 996 turbo because it will have suffered the majority of its worst depreciation already saying that all three cars are amazing machines