996 and Boxster engine failures discussed + photos
Discussion
As recently promised - our new buyers guide on our own web site www.hartech.org , under section 4 - now contains full technical discussions and photographs about the causes of typical failures, solutions, costs, alternatives, gurantees etc, etc.
It should answer most of the questions about engine failures that I have come accross on this forum and hopefully anticipate typical future postings as well.
Baz Hartech
It should answer most of the questions about engine failures that I have come accross on this forum and hopefully anticipate typical future postings as well.
Baz Hartech
Edited by dazren on Tuesday 6th February 12:10
hartech said:
As recently promised - our new buyers guide on our own web site www.hartech.org, under section 4 - now contains full technical discussions and photographs about the causes of typical failures, solutions, costs, alternatives, gurantees etc, etc.
It should answer most of the questions about engine failures that I have come accross on this forum and hopefully anticipate typical future postings as well.
Baz Hartech
It should answer most of the questions about engine failures that I have come accross on this forum and hopefully anticipate typical future postings as well.
Baz Hartech
Baz, you need to amend the address....
The address worked for me - sorry. Thanks for letting me know about errors - but with over 100,000 words in the guide and using a spellchecker - if I still got one or two wrong after that - please just forgive me unmless the spelling changes the message please let me know.
Thanks,
Baz Hartech
Thanks,
Baz Hartech
Haven't read it all yet, but looks like very interesting stuff.
Minor, minor, minor nitpicking point - the Porsche warranty comes Porsche assist.
My random theoretical question of the day is: If you have a 8-9 year 996 under Porsche warranty, is it worth paying for some kind of engine examination before the warranty runs out ?
Just read section 4 and it seems reassuring that you have most angles covered and obviously know what you are doing,(I am always wary of the 17year old boys hanging about the mercedes service dept ready to take my car for a service at £90 per/hour)BUT you have made me paranoid about taking the plunge in buying a 911. Basically I am new to forum and i am close to buying my first 996 and have got various brilliant advice from the guys here BUT just as i am close to finalising the finance, i read with interest the "Engine gone on 996 - 3.6" thread.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=344892&f=48&h=0
In your opinion with the expertise you have - Have Porsche got a real problem with there engines or is it no more of an issue than the problems other prestige marques like Mercedes have recently had with build quaility/trim and BMW M3 or even Jags XJ8's engine re-calls??
I have been reading Autocar,Evo,What Car,Auto Express,Performance Car etc,etc over the years and the 911's always seemed to get a bullit-proof best sportscar/everyday sportscar/engineered car you could buy review. (I know that 993 owners may have there own opinion on this and have the ""Those were the days"" feelings on the 911 marque)
I am buying on a budget of 32-35K and will definately "THROUGH FEAR OF ALL THAT I HAVE READ HERE" buy an extended warranty through yourself or OPC which may i add i have never done or had the need to do before with any of my previous cars.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=344892&f=48&h=0
In your opinion with the expertise you have - Have Porsche got a real problem with there engines or is it no more of an issue than the problems other prestige marques like Mercedes have recently had with build quaility/trim and BMW M3 or even Jags XJ8's engine re-calls??
I have been reading Autocar,Evo,What Car,Auto Express,Performance Car etc,etc over the years and the 911's always seemed to get a bullit-proof best sportscar/everyday sportscar/engineered car you could buy review. (I know that 993 owners may have there own opinion on this and have the ""Those were the days"" feelings on the 911 marque)
I am buying on a budget of 32-35K and will definately "THROUGH FEAR OF ALL THAT I HAVE READ HERE" buy an extended warranty through yourself or OPC which may i add i have never done or had the need to do before with any of my previous cars.
Edited by wanta996 on Tuesday 6th February 12:50
Edited by wanta996 on Tuesday 6th February 12:54
Edited by wanta996 on Tuesday 6th February 12:55
Edited by wanta996 on Tuesday 6th February 12:56
Baz, very impressive what you collated there. Must applaud your honesty and integrity in stating that with the limited resources you as a business have, you cannot have the pretension of offering the definitive answers (yet) - if anything this makes the case you have built (so to speak) even stronger.
In future I may like to report about 'new' engine materials and construction methods and what implications they may have for what our readers see in their workshops (our magazine for a large part caters for independant workshops) and I'd be glad if I could feature some of your illustrations and input for this purpose
Best regards,
Eric (Tech Ed)
In future I may like to report about 'new' engine materials and construction methods and what implications they may have for what our readers see in their workshops (our magazine for a large part caters for independant workshops) and I'd be glad if I could feature some of your illustrations and input for this purpose
Best regards,
Eric (Tech Ed)
Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 6th February 14:07
It always creates a problem when you explain the details of a fault - because everyone gets paranoid about it. But you know for the people who experience it and have the problem to deal with - it is a godsend to find someone who can help. I don't know what the answer is to that reality - if you tell no one and they find out about the problems - with only expensive solutions - they may never buy a car or buy one and have to incurr huge expense to fix it and if you let people know that the problems are well understood technically and solutions are available that they probably can afford - they get paranoid about the possibility of it happening to them. I think if you read the whole article you would have to agree that we found a fair balance between the situation and the causes and tried not to put people off ownership - just tried to reassure them that there are answers if it all goes wrong for them - which is very rare indeed.
The original 944S, S2 and 968 had many cars lose cylinder heads, camshafts, valves etc at often huge cost - but we were probably the first (or if not certainly amongst the first) to highlight the problem in the Porsche press and explain that there was an easy solution to simply change the cam chains at say every cam belt change (45K) (not leave it as a "service for life item" as it was stated at the time) and those cars that we did that for are still now running on the same cams over 150K later while the problem simply went away once buyers accepted it as a part of the ownership as preventative maintenance that - if you got it done in time - prevented a more expensive and inconvenient failure. Now those models are spoken about without much attention to those problems areas (certainly no hysteria) because they are so well known and they enjoy a fine reputation.
There are many other examples and those that get the preventative work done in time have modest costs every now and again while those that ignore it at least can get it fixed at a lower cost than a new engine by seeking alternatives provided by independents.
Previously most owners did not have a Porsche warranty after the car was a few years old and often the only solution offered was an expensive new engine. Now there are more alternatives and preventative measures to avoid disasters from more sources. We even provide a warranty to cover the labour for repairs for the lifetime of the car. With the Porsche warranty covering up to 10 years old (which we think is worth considering if you can afford it) and our own different and less expensive alternative - having no age or mileage limit - and now having found solutions to most of the problems we are currently aware of - we are simply trying to make the public less worried about buying these superb cars - because the problem is understaood and reasonably cost effective solutions are available. Previously - if we had not revealed all this to the public - only very expensive solutions were available and no one really knew what was going on nor why the engines were failing - surely a far worse situation!
We also try and make it clear that the incidence is very rare indeed - but for those that it happens to it can be devastating and at least we offer more alternative solutions than the main agents do to help them out of their difficulty.
So please don't be put off by the fact that a small number go wrong and be pleased that in the very rare occasions when it happens there are some alternatives available that might enable a solution to be found that you can afford and eventually these will become part of the accepted baggage that goes with these models (as it has with previous models) and will not detract from ownership or values - once major problems can be repaired or avoided.
Baz Hartech
The original 944S, S2 and 968 had many cars lose cylinder heads, camshafts, valves etc at often huge cost - but we were probably the first (or if not certainly amongst the first) to highlight the problem in the Porsche press and explain that there was an easy solution to simply change the cam chains at say every cam belt change (45K) (not leave it as a "service for life item" as it was stated at the time) and those cars that we did that for are still now running on the same cams over 150K later while the problem simply went away once buyers accepted it as a part of the ownership as preventative maintenance that - if you got it done in time - prevented a more expensive and inconvenient failure. Now those models are spoken about without much attention to those problems areas (certainly no hysteria) because they are so well known and they enjoy a fine reputation.
There are many other examples and those that get the preventative work done in time have modest costs every now and again while those that ignore it at least can get it fixed at a lower cost than a new engine by seeking alternatives provided by independents.
Previously most owners did not have a Porsche warranty after the car was a few years old and often the only solution offered was an expensive new engine. Now there are more alternatives and preventative measures to avoid disasters from more sources. We even provide a warranty to cover the labour for repairs for the lifetime of the car. With the Porsche warranty covering up to 10 years old (which we think is worth considering if you can afford it) and our own different and less expensive alternative - having no age or mileage limit - and now having found solutions to most of the problems we are currently aware of - we are simply trying to make the public less worried about buying these superb cars - because the problem is understaood and reasonably cost effective solutions are available. Previously - if we had not revealed all this to the public - only very expensive solutions were available and no one really knew what was going on nor why the engines were failing - surely a far worse situation!
We also try and make it clear that the incidence is very rare indeed - but for those that it happens to it can be devastating and at least we offer more alternative solutions than the main agents do to help them out of their difficulty.
So please don't be put off by the fact that a small number go wrong and be pleased that in the very rare occasions when it happens there are some alternatives available that might enable a solution to be found that you can afford and eventually these will become part of the accepted baggage that goes with these models (as it has with previous models) and will not detract from ownership or values - once major problems can be repaired or avoided.
Baz Hartech
Please forgive me, I haven't had time to read everything on Hartech's site, but it seems worth mentioning the modifications done to a 996 engine by Autofarm and given to 911 World magazine to test a year or two ago. Don't know if these were succesful and whether they are similar or different to Hartech's, but thought it should be added to the discussion.
2something said:
My random theoretical question of the day is: If you have a 8-9 year 996 under Porsche warranty, is it worth paying for some kind of engine examination before the warranty runs out ?
Basically no, Porsche have the policy that until something fails completely then it will not be replaced under warranty, so even if you detected something with a problem, unless it fundamentally fails at its job then it will not be replaced.
And congrats to baz for this article, just hope Porsche don't send you a nice letter asking you to remove it.
Hi Baz, thanks for going out of your way with your reply as i believe it was targeted at my question on the reliabilty - Anyway,i am going for it and i have my eye on a private Yellow 996 C4s with 31k miles at £38K. No doubt i will pay you a visit sooner or later, hopefully for a chat rather than with any faults.
Interesting articles. Good for Hartech, showing you really know your stuff. But it has also put me off owning any Porsche until I'm earning £50k or more (perhaps a bit less if it was strictly a weekend car) and able to afford to buy from a specialist!
It seems they're basically well engineered but also in some cases expensively engineered, thus requiring expensive maintenance.
It seems they're basically well engineered but also in some cases expensively engineered, thus requiring expensive maintenance.
pentoman said:
Interesting articles. Good for Hartech, showing you really know your stuff. But it has also put me off owning any Porsche until I'm earning £50k or more (perhaps a bit less if it was strictly a weekend car) and able to afford to buy from a specialist!
That was what I was thinking. You need to offset this of course against the virtues of having an everyday useable all-in-one package that can do it all (well, nearly at least) at a price that is not completely in fantasy land - but it does indicate that you can't have your cake and eat it after all, or as the old adage goes 'how fast can you afford to go?'
Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 7th February 19:30
wanta996 said:
i have my eye on a private Yellow 996 C4s with 31k miles at £38K.
I was offered just such a car last year that had been the subject of some poor accident repair work. No idea whether the damage had been heavy, but the alignment of the front panels was poor and could be costly to rectify (a shame for just being a few millimetres out in one or two places). It may have been done by now of course, but probably not likely.
I thought it worth mentioning as the colour is quite rare, so could be the same car. It had bucket seats too, but I can't remember any more about the spec, sorry. Even if it is the same car I'm not saying don't buy it, just get it checked carefully.
I am sorry if the article put some people off, I tried to make it very balanced and matter of fact and show both sides of the argument - supporting Porsche's position throughout - but I think it is a bit like a medical situation - what would you prefer if there is a chance you may suffer a well know life threatening illness?
(a) Be told no one knows what causes it (in fact you feel it is probably your fault somehow) and it is terminal but there is only one short term solution that will cost you the earth and at the end of it you could fall ill again with the same problem after a few years. There is an expensive health insurance you can take out if you are not older than "X" years old (if you are older there is no insurance available) but unfortunately some people cannot afford the insurance nor the operation and will simply suffer the loss of their health. Unfortunately health checks will not pick up the problem before you are critical.
OR
(b) Yes we know exactly what causes it (explained in this article www.****** etc), it can be resolved for less cost than it was previously thought and there are actually a number of options you can choose and by the way there is a low cost health insurance that includes regular check ups that will help you afford the hospitalisation and operation - if you are unlucky enough to fall ill with it and may intercept the condition before it is terminal.
What would you prefer? I know some people with pains prefer not to go and find out what it is - hoping it will go away - but anyone who has experienced a genuine critical illness like this will tell you that the sooner it is found the better and a positive attitude to being able to survive is a big help - while being able to afford the remedy is essential.
By writing the article I have effectively provided a "b" alternative when before there was only an "a".
I accept that there are others that provide different solutions. I never run them down and in fact openly co-operate with others doing this type of work and have previously mentioned them as an alternative. However I don't see why I should be expected to promote their solutions after all my investment in my solution that is different because it is potentially less expensive and can carry out relatively inexpensive work on a set of cylinders (during a strip down for some other problem like an intermediate shaft bearing or cam chain) that would probably prevent them from ever cracking anyway (which no other solution offers). I have not found anyone else Worldwide who has identified what is behind the cylinder cracks yet either.
However there are always some people who prefer to live in a rose coloured world and not be told about anything bad that may happen to them - and they are usually the first to suffer the most as a result.
So I am genuinely sorry if my article puts some people off ownership and worries others - it all goes to show that whatever you do you cannot satisfy all of the people all of the time!!
Baz Hartech
(a) Be told no one knows what causes it (in fact you feel it is probably your fault somehow) and it is terminal but there is only one short term solution that will cost you the earth and at the end of it you could fall ill again with the same problem after a few years. There is an expensive health insurance you can take out if you are not older than "X" years old (if you are older there is no insurance available) but unfortunately some people cannot afford the insurance nor the operation and will simply suffer the loss of their health. Unfortunately health checks will not pick up the problem before you are critical.
OR
(b) Yes we know exactly what causes it (explained in this article www.****** etc), it can be resolved for less cost than it was previously thought and there are actually a number of options you can choose and by the way there is a low cost health insurance that includes regular check ups that will help you afford the hospitalisation and operation - if you are unlucky enough to fall ill with it and may intercept the condition before it is terminal.
What would you prefer? I know some people with pains prefer not to go and find out what it is - hoping it will go away - but anyone who has experienced a genuine critical illness like this will tell you that the sooner it is found the better and a positive attitude to being able to survive is a big help - while being able to afford the remedy is essential.
By writing the article I have effectively provided a "b" alternative when before there was only an "a".
I accept that there are others that provide different solutions. I never run them down and in fact openly co-operate with others doing this type of work and have previously mentioned them as an alternative. However I don't see why I should be expected to promote their solutions after all my investment in my solution that is different because it is potentially less expensive and can carry out relatively inexpensive work on a set of cylinders (during a strip down for some other problem like an intermediate shaft bearing or cam chain) that would probably prevent them from ever cracking anyway (which no other solution offers). I have not found anyone else Worldwide who has identified what is behind the cylinder cracks yet either.
However there are always some people who prefer to live in a rose coloured world and not be told about anything bad that may happen to them - and they are usually the first to suffer the most as a result.
So I am genuinely sorry if my article puts some people off ownership and worries others - it all goes to show that whatever you do you cannot satisfy all of the people all of the time!!
Baz Hartech
"I was offered just such a car last year that had been the subject of some poor accident repair work. No idea whether the damage had been heavy, but the alignment of the front panels was poor and could be costly to rectify (a shame for just being a few millimetres out in one or two places). It may have been done by now of course, but probably not likely.
I thought it worth mentioning as the colour is quite rare, so could be the same car. It had bucket seats too, but I can't remember any more about the spec, sorry. Even if it is the same car I'm not saying don't buy it, just get it checked carefully"
Thanks Thegoose, it may be the same car BUT if i go private, i am going to make sure the buyer lets the car go to an OPC for a check and to make sure it passes all that needs passing to enable a Years OPC warranty, if not, then i wount touch is after all i have read on this forum
I thought it worth mentioning as the colour is quite rare, so could be the same car. It had bucket seats too, but I can't remember any more about the spec, sorry. Even if it is the same car I'm not saying don't buy it, just get it checked carefully"
Thanks Thegoose, it may be the same car BUT if i go private, i am going to make sure the buyer lets the car go to an OPC for a check and to make sure it passes all that needs passing to enable a Years OPC warranty, if not, then i wount touch is after all i have read on this forum
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff