JZ Machtech: GT3 Geo Setup Completed
Discussion
Further to my post a few days ago asking for opinion on JZM and Parr I had my car re-geo'd (is that a word??) by JZ Machtech (closer to home!) on Monday. I can happily report that the work has improved the road manners of my car as I had hoped for. It has virtually removed the standard settings vagueness on initial turn in and mid corner feel is also improved. It is more pliant on rough road surfaces and motorways and just feels more planted and less vague across the steering spectrum, with most of that standard understeer dialed out nicely.
I have not had the chance to fully evaluate it as the current road surfaces close to home are awful, and yesterday I managed to t
t my front splitter on the cattle grid on my driveway, but I am happy with the very obvious change to the characteristics of my car. I will update this when I have a new splitter and some quality road time but so far so good!
I have not had the chance to fully evaluate it as the current road surfaces close to home are awful, and yesterday I managed to t
t my front splitter on the cattle grid on my driveway, but I am happy with the very obvious change to the characteristics of my car. I will update this when I have a new splitter and some quality road time but so far so good! Glad to hear JZM have improved your setup, they did my car yesterday, so much the same to report, it rides better, steering weights up nicely opn initial turn in, the front end isn't nearly so nervous. Oh and it looks seriously naughty now that it's got shed loads of negative camber on the front and rear wheels !!!
noneedtolift said:
Any chance of any of you guys posting the settings ? 
I think they are Mantheys settings and thus not made available to all and sundry.
No printout was given when I had my MK1 GT3 setup and the same applied to the GT2 yesterday.
I guess I could have the geo checked on my local tyre suppliers gear and see what settings have been applied.
Its clearly visible that my car has had large amounts of negative camber applied to both the front and rear wheels though.
I had Manthey in Germany do the set up for me twice and each time they have given me all details in a nice spreadsheet. I can not see much reason not to give it, because rather than ask some amateur to replicate the settings, I'd have it done by pros like JZ. Not worth trying to save a few hundred pounds
Every geo setting is slightly different as these geo setups are bespoke for the style of driving, model car, tyres used, capability of the driver, tracks/roads driven on, and also the weight of the driver. So there's no such thing as a "Manthey" setup.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
polarexpress said:
Every geo setting is slightly different as these geo setups are bespoke for the style of driving, model car, tyres used, capability of the driver, tracks/roads driven on, and also the weight of the driver. So there's no such thing as a "Manthey" setup.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
Hi Ade, I understand that might be the case but I remember reading an article in GTPP et al that MR have done so many Porsches that they now know exactly the settings without having to 'customise', so basically an off the shelf solution for the car broken down by ride type.
polarexpress said:
Every geo setting is slightly different as these geo setups are bespoke for the style of driving, model car, tyres used, capability of the driver, tracks/roads driven on, and also the weight of the driver. So there's no such thing as a "Manthey" setup.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
Agreed but the reason for this is that at autobahn speed the pointiness is lost because of the speeds that they are able to travel. My Brabus SV12 is set up in the same way and at anything over a tonne it is just spot on. Not knocking JZ but I would expect that the best they can do is replicate the Manthey set up with maybe a bit less front toe to do the job. What seems to be forgotten is how many so called suspension experts out there that can actually drive a car at anywhere near ten tenths on a circuit. Two tenths would be nearer.
They are all mostly reliant on someone elses feedback or opinion or product as neither steve or jonus have any racecraft ability. I am sure that there are a few others out there but the only two that spring to mind are Mike Jordan of Eurotech and Phill Hindley of Tech Nine who can actually put there money where their mouth is. That said there are a some good guys out there especially with the older stuff that know from previous experience what works and what doesn't.
polarexpress said:
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
"easy to unsettle the rear" you say... now that would explain a few things !
damianc4s said:
polarexpress said:
Every geo setting is slightly different as these geo setups are bespoke for the style of driving, model car, tyres used, capability of the driver, tracks/roads driven on, and also the weight of the driver. So there's no such thing as a "Manthey" setup.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
Hi Ade, I understand that might be the case but I remember reading an article in GTPP et al that MR have done so many Porsches that they now know exactly the settings without having to 'customise', so basically an off the shelf solution for the car broken down by ride type.
Quite possible, but Olaf still went to the trouble of asking me my weight, what tyres I run, etc before scribbling down a geo spec on the day it was set up. That's what I appreciate about them- every car is treated individually.
Sundeep said:
polarexpress said:
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
"easy to unsettle the rear" you say... now that would explain a few things !
No kidding! After ze Germans sorted the geo. my car used to be amazing into the corners... but out of the corners, I ran out of underwear as fast as the photographers ran out of memory cards...
Then Steve had another look at the geo and dialed in something a little more neutral, and she started cornering on rails again and could be coaxed into some fantastic 4-wheel drifts...
graeme73s said:
polarexpress said:
Every geo setting is slightly different as these geo setups are bespoke for the style of driving, model car, tyres used, capability of the driver, tracks/roads driven on, and also the weight of the driver. So there's no such thing as a "Manthey" setup.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
The Germans also like a slightly different handling car compared to the Brits. Olaf likes relatively 'pointy' setups with more toe on the front. Pointy setups are great for turn-in responsiveness, but it makes it easy to unsettle the rear of the car and demands more of the driver.
Agreed but the reason for this is that at autobahn speed the pointiness is lost because of the speeds that they are able to travel. My Brabus SV12 is set up in the same way and at anything over a tonne it is just spot on. Not knocking JZ but I would expect that the best they can do is replicate the Manthey set up with maybe a bit less front toe to do the job. What seems to be forgotten is how many so called suspension experts out there that can actually drive a car at anywhere near ten tenths on a circuit. Two tenths would be nearer.
They are all mostly reliant on someone elses feedback or opinion or product as neither steve or jonus have any racecraft ability. I am sure that there are a few others out there but the only two that spring to mind are Mike Jordan of Eurotech and Phill Hindley of Tech Nine who can actually put there money where their mouth is. That said there are a some good guys out there especially with the older stuff that know from previous experience what works and what doesn't.
Well I know both Jonas and Steve are ex-racers with the silverware so I suspect they know a thing or two about how geo works and how to interpret driver feedback...
Edited by polarexpress on Wednesday 20th December 23:44
housemaster said:
They will not share the settings, ....... and it would be wrong to share them too I think.
Why?
They always used to. It was only Parr who thought their settings were top secret & has been said above, a decent tyre centre could give you the info anyway, so why not tell the customer what the settings were?
andy tims said:
housemaster said:
They will not share the settings, ....... and it would be wrong to share them too I think.
Why?
They always used to. It was only Parr who thought their settings were top secret & has been said above, a decent tyre centre could give you the info anyway, so why not tell the customer what the settings were?
Ask them why, to me it's not an issue or even a point for debate. I actually have the numbers in a photo (I stood with them for 4 hours while they did the work) but I was asked not to share them, so that is why I think it would be wrong to. I am well aware I can find them out, but you assume I want to or need to, which I don't and having seen the precision of the machine they used married together with someone who has been working on 911's for 10 years I would question any decent tyre centre would get close. Knowing is one thing, supplying is another...
One advantage of knowing the settings is that they could be passed to someone who is not within realistic range of JZ or Parr.
For example someone like myself in Scotland would have to drive the length of the country to have them do my geo. However, with the settings of the specialists one could use a possibly less GT3 experienced but technically capable centre to try them out.
Just a thought, and i'm in no way seeking these settings as i'm quite happy with my geo at the mo.
For example someone like myself in Scotland would have to drive the length of the country to have them do my geo. However, with the settings of the specialists one could use a possibly less GT3 experienced but technically capable centre to try them out.
Just a thought, and i'm in no way seeking these settings as i'm quite happy with my geo at the mo.
andy tims said:
housemaster said:
They will not share the settings, ....... and it would be wrong to share them too I think.
Why?
They always used to. It was only Parr who thought their settings were top secret & has been said above, a decent tyre centre could give you the info anyway, so why not tell the customer what the settings were?
It took Parr 2 years of testing to develop the settings for the GT3. I know that Manthey also do a lot of development to find the set ups that they offer. It costs a fortune to develop these set ups. The 400 quid or so that these tuners charge for set ups that transform the handling of the car is an absolute bargain when you factor in the time, effort, skill and mony that goes into achieving them.
Steve R
slippydiff said:
noneedtolift said:
Any chance of any of you guys posting the settings ?
I think they are Mantheys settings and thus not made available to all and sundry.
No printout was given when I had my MK1 GT3 setup and the same applied to the GT2 yesterday.
I guess I could have the geo checked on my local tyre suppliers gear and see what settings have been applied.
Its clearly visible that my car has had large amounts of negative camber applied to both the front and rear wheels though.
....is bags of negative camber good for normal road use or have you had it set up for a track bias? I'm thinking of having mine done to optimise the geo for road use over the winter as the roads are tricky enough as it is, so any additional help is welcomed. I wouldn't fancy driving around on our roads as thay are now with a track bias set up!
welshnobby said:
slippydiff said:
noneedtolift said:
Any chance of any of you guys posting the settings ?
I think they are Mantheys settings and thus not made available to all and sundry.
No printout was given when I had my MK1 GT3 setup and the same applied to the GT2 yesterday.
I guess I could have the geo checked on my local tyre suppliers gear and see what settings have been applied.
Its clearly visible that my car has had large amounts of negative camber applied to both the front and rear wheels though.
....is bags of negative camber good for normal road use or have you had it set up for a track bias?
WN, no on both counts ! I've spoken to Steve McHale this morning as I took the car out on some roads more in keeping with those I'd normally use the car on yesterday (as opposed to pounding it along motorways).The car now seems to bumpsteer more than previously, ie bumps deflect it quite fiercely from tracking straight.
From what Steve Mac says, I think the car maybe now running too much negative camber and possibly also too much toe out for sub 100mph A road driving.
At "elevated" speeds the car feels very planted, but apparently this is as much a function of the GT2 Aero kit as much as any geometry tweeks.
The other downside of running large amounts of camber on the front is the tyres tend to foul the archliners quite frequently when largish amounts of lock are applied.
I'm going to run the car over the Christmas break and see if I can get to use it on some bone dry (though no doubt still cold) roads, to work out better what I do and don't like about the current geometry setup. Steve Mac says he'll then reset the geo more to my liking in the New Year.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff