How much should I pay for a 993 'S'????
Discussion
Following yesterday's scintilating conversation about car seats and toddlers in 911's, I now find myself back looking for a suitable car as a deal I almost did has fallen through....i think it's called gazumping
Anyway, I've not really fully explored the possibility of a 993 'S', instead opting for the 'more modern is more reliable etc etc' arguement towards a 996. Stupid I know.
Is anyone out there able to give me the pro's and cons towards an 'S' and indeed what i should be forking out for one? Ideally looking to spend up to £30k, but want something that isn't going to lose a stack in a year or so...
Cheers chaps
Anyway, I've not really fully explored the possibility of a 993 'S', instead opting for the 'more modern is more reliable etc etc' arguement towards a 996. Stupid I know.
Is anyone out there able to give me the pro's and cons towards an 'S' and indeed what i should be forking out for one? Ideally looking to spend up to £30k, but want something that isn't going to lose a stack in a year or so...
Cheers chaps
993S's demand a premium and have done since they were new. There are alot around at mid £30k's which seems a bit high, kniocking on the door of 993tt values.
It is difficult to ever predict which car will retain value, but a nice S is always going to be a car in demand.
I would love one if i had the spare cash, and when I have saved it up I will buy one.
If you pay £30k ish I would in my totally unqualified view imagine it would remain in the £23-£27 ish price band for a few years.
Any way buy one if you can.
It is difficult to ever predict which car will retain value, but a nice S is always going to be a car in demand.
I would love one if i had the spare cash, and when I have saved it up I will buy one.
If you pay £30k ish I would in my totally unqualified view imagine it would remain in the £23-£27 ish price band for a few years.
Any way buy one if you can.
Personally I would go for the 4s as I think they are more sought after and so hold their value better (probably made less of them), nearly bought one myself before realising that it looked a bit too 'old school' for my taste as far as the dash was concerned. I opted for 996 in the end.
I think you should get a 993 C4S for the £29-33k mark for something with reasonable but not too high mileage.
All cars will depreciate, you may lose anything upto 5k on one of these depending on how the newer ones depreciate and your mileage/service history etc..
only my opinion...
Personally I would go for the 4s as I think they are more sought after and so hold their value better (probably made less of them), nearly bought one myself before realising that it looked a bit too 'old school' for my taste as far as the dash was concerned. I opted for 996 in the end.
I think you should get a 993 C4S for the £29-33k mark for something with reasonable but not too high mileage.
All cars will depreciate, you may lose anything upto 5k on one of these depending on how the newer ones depreciate and your mileage/service history etc..
only my opinion...
Personally I don't think an S merits the price premium it commands. Its basically a standard Carrera with the turbo body.
Unlike a C4S which has turbo body, brakes, suspension etc..
Though if the S has 18" turbo twists they will likely be hollow spoke, whereas the 18" turbo twists on the C4S are likely to be solid spoke. Why this is I have no clue, I expect VS or Sleep Envy will know though
Unlike a C4S which has turbo body, brakes, suspension etc..
Though if the S has 18" turbo twists they will likely be hollow spoke, whereas the 18" turbo twists on the C4S are likely to be solid spoke. Why this is I have no clue, I expect VS or Sleep Envy will know though
The 4S has 18" wheels as standard, they look like turbo wheels but are in fact solid and heavier - it's a popular upgrade for 4S owners to swap for the hollow spokes. The S came with 17's as standard but most were optioned with 18" - if this was the case then they would be the hollow spokes from the turbo.
In the UK the 4S has the same suspension as the S - M033, not M030 as on the turbo.
The 4S came with 'big red' brakes from the turbo, the S came with standard carrera brakes.
The S came with the split 'kidney' style engine grille, the 4S came with the standard carrera grille.
The 4S came with full turbo interior - full leather, upgraded sound, computer, sports seats (no cost option) etc. The S came with virtually standard carrera interior though was often optioned up.
As tertius says the S is basically a carrera with wide body and M033 - though it does have some nice little touches inside.
The 4S has the brakes and interior from the turbo - plus 4 wheel drive of course.
The S is relatively light (lighter than standard carrera 4) whereas the 4S is heavy (1450kg in UK). The 4S is weighed down by the 4 wheel drive, the big reds, the interior, the solid wheels etc.
The S feels more agile than the 4S - though still feels bigger and heavier than standard carrera 2. The 4S (in standard form) is more of a GT really - with the 4 wheel drive and all the goodies.
4S's do have a slight premium over the S here in the UK (and Europe aparently) mostly due to rarity. (in the US more 4S's were sold than S's so they are cheaper).
In the UK the 4S has the same suspension as the S - M033, not M030 as on the turbo.
The 4S came with 'big red' brakes from the turbo, the S came with standard carrera brakes.
The S came with the split 'kidney' style engine grille, the 4S came with the standard carrera grille.
The 4S came with full turbo interior - full leather, upgraded sound, computer, sports seats (no cost option) etc. The S came with virtually standard carrera interior though was often optioned up.
As tertius says the S is basically a carrera with wide body and M033 - though it does have some nice little touches inside.
The 4S has the brakes and interior from the turbo - plus 4 wheel drive of course.
The S is relatively light (lighter than standard carrera 4) whereas the 4S is heavy (1450kg in UK). The 4S is weighed down by the 4 wheel drive, the big reds, the interior, the solid wheels etc.
The S feels more agile than the 4S - though still feels bigger and heavier than standard carrera 2. The 4S (in standard form) is more of a GT really - with the 4 wheel drive and all the goodies.
4S's do have a slight premium over the S here in the UK (and Europe aparently) mostly due to rarity. (in the US more 4S's were sold than S's so they are cheaper).
I vote kennyboy to be my new deputy 993 anorak
C2/C4 very little in it, C2S looks great but detracts from the C2 dynamically, C4S is an awesome all weather weapon with the suspension, brakes, and drivetrain to fully maximise its potential. My 4S always felt like it could handle more power with ease, my turbo felt sublime, but the C2 provides clarity and focus at *relatively* sensible speeds.
Thanks Pete I will gladly step up to the mantle.
You've also summarised perfectly what would take me 2500 words to get across - so perhaps I'm not quite ready yet to deputise?
My 4S was the same - massively over chassi'd if that's a term!? And with the right mods it could get from A to B very quickly indeed.
You've also summarised perfectly what would take me 2500 words to get across - so perhaps I'm not quite ready yet to deputise?
My 4S was the same - massively over chassi'd if that's a term!? And with the right mods it could get from A to B very quickly indeed.
Here was my though process:
My situation: the original 993 doesn't look special enough. Therefore I started looking for the S variant. The 4S is out of the question because I want a two wheel drive.
Fact 1- Research suggests that 4S and S both are heavier and less pure to drive. Overchassied as well
Fact 2- It's very rare to find an S model with the short gear ratios
Fact 3- I clearly remember the press (the thorough ones at least) saying that the 4S and S were overchassied, slightly less dynamic, less fun, and slightly reduced the driving experience of the 993.
Solution: if you want a non-RS non-Turbo 993, the basic C2 is the best to drive. Boring looks? that's why I am looking for one that has full leather, sound system, 3-spoke wheel, white dials, and maybe even sports seats. of course, combined with low mileage and history, it's not an easy car to find. Either I'll get lucky or I'll get tired and change to something else.
But no 4S or S for me, I'd hate to see a basic 993 on the street and feel jealous.
Kay
PS: It's worth noting that in the part of the world where I am (Austria/Germany), 4S's are much much more widepsread that 2S's. And from what I know, Porsche made the 4S in 1996, but the S only in 1997, making the S more rare...?
My situation: the original 993 doesn't look special enough. Therefore I started looking for the S variant. The 4S is out of the question because I want a two wheel drive.
Fact 1- Research suggests that 4S and S both are heavier and less pure to drive. Overchassied as well
Fact 2- It's very rare to find an S model with the short gear ratios
Fact 3- I clearly remember the press (the thorough ones at least) saying that the 4S and S were overchassied, slightly less dynamic, less fun, and slightly reduced the driving experience of the 993.
Solution: if you want a non-RS non-Turbo 993, the basic C2 is the best to drive. Boring looks? that's why I am looking for one that has full leather, sound system, 3-spoke wheel, white dials, and maybe even sports seats. of course, combined with low mileage and history, it's not an easy car to find. Either I'll get lucky or I'll get tired and change to something else.
But no 4S or S for me, I'd hate to see a basic 993 on the street and feel jealous.
Kay
PS: It's worth noting that in the part of the world where I am (Austria/Germany), 4S's are much much more widepsread that 2S's. And from what I know, Porsche made the 4S in 1996, but the S only in 1997, making the S more rare...?
C4S is a bit stodgy but put on M030 springs, bilsteins and turbo roll bars and its a different car - far more neutral and a bit scarier.
C4Ss were certainly built in 1997 - mine was.
4WD adds great security it in the rain but the tyres make them useless in snow so not an allweather car in Scotland for instance.
C4Ss were certainly built in 1997 - mine was.
4WD adds great security it in the rain but the tyres make them useless in snow so not an allweather car in Scotland for instance.
fidgits said:
just buy the 996 and join the 20th (or 21st) Century 
Edited by fidgits on Friday 1st December 13:17
As I'm not having much luck on the 993 front I may just do that...still a bit of a sucker for the purity of the 's' to look at, but obviously prefer the modernity of sitting in the 996
Wolfsbait said:
fidgits said:
just buy the 996 and join the 20th (or 21st) Century
Edited by fidgits on Friday 1st December 13:17
As I'm not having much luck on the 993 front I may just do that...still a bit of a sucker for the purity of the 's' to look at, but obviously prefer the modernity of sitting in the 996
The residual loss in value on a 996 is enormous , but a great everyday driving machine none the less, i would hold out for a good widebodied 993 "from the last century" and lose 5k instead of 15k over the next 3 to 5 years......no brainer
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