Won an auction for a Boxster on eBay..but...(legal advice)
Discussion
So I won an auction for a Boxster on eBay having met the reserve at £18,500. The seller has just written to me to say that he has already sold the car to a Porsche dealer who are now selling the car for £24995 (robbing gits!). Does anyone know what recourse I have given that this seller entered into a contract to sell me this car and that it would now cost me £24995 to buy it or £20,000 to buy another equivent in a private sale?
To be honest I don't think you've got much recourse other than negative feedback and move on. I don't know this specific auction but in my experience most people, when they list cars on Ebay, put in a caveat that they reserve the right to sell the car elsewhere at any time until the deal is formally concluded. I doubt you have any legal recourse until you have actually paid for the vehicle.
This is my perspective as a long-term ebay user, I ain't no lawyer and will stand corrected if anyone knows better.
This is my perspective as a long-term ebay user, I ain't no lawyer and will stand corrected if anyone knows better.
Ebay are supposed to be pretty tough on this sort of thing. Start writing emails to the help/complaint departments - you'll get a response pretty quickly from the ebay guys letting you know what (if anything) can be done. Don't give the guy any crappy feedback before you make sure he isn't able to crappy feedback you in return.
Edit - as has been stated a couple of times above, he may have put caveats in his initial listing, but let ebay have a look at things before you act. They may be no help at all, in which case you'll just have to get over it. But if the seller hasn't been careful, it may be another story.
Edit - as has been stated a couple of times above, he may have put caveats in his initial listing, but let ebay have a look at things before you act. They may be no help at all, in which case you'll just have to get over it. But if the seller hasn't been careful, it may be another story.
Edited by loach on Tuesday 28th November 12:28
I've no idea whether you can do anything about this but even if you can, you're hardly going to be best buddies with the seller now. Any issues with the car once you've bought it may be difficult to resolve. 
My advice is walk away from it. Ebay and car sales don't go well together IMO (classified Ebay ads are OK I suppose). Buyers want a bargain and sellers want the highest price they can get without having to make eye to eye contact with potential buyers. You get what you pay for when buying a Porsche and therefore Ebay is not necessarily a good place to buy one (again IMO).
Sorry you've been let down especially if you thought you'd found a good one.
My advice is walk away from it. Ebay and car sales don't go well together IMO (classified Ebay ads are OK I suppose). Buyers want a bargain and sellers want the highest price they can get without having to make eye to eye contact with potential buyers. You get what you pay for when buying a Porsche and therefore Ebay is not necessarily a good place to buy one (again IMO).
Sorry you've been let down especially if you thought you'd found a good one.
Most people would state they reserve the right to sell elsewhere prior to the close of the auction. In this instance the guy probably wasn`t thinking and didn`t / couldn`t stop the ebay aution once his car was sold (or the dealer paid more than £18,500 which if they are asking £25k is more likely the case).
He could have said the car had been nicked so at least he was honest with you. Had the car been sold via a dealer and you had paid a deposit then the dealer would either have to compensate or supply another similar vehicle.
In this instance I wouldn`t let it worry you. Ebay is hardly the last word in integrity and legally binding contracts given the number of dodgy items offered for sale so put it down to experience, acknowledge there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche and give the bloke the most acidic feedack 20 words will allow !
Henry
He could have said the car had been nicked so at least he was honest with you. Had the car been sold via a dealer and you had paid a deposit then the dealer would either have to compensate or supply another similar vehicle.
In this instance I wouldn`t let it worry you. Ebay is hardly the last word in integrity and legally binding contracts given the number of dodgy items offered for sale so put it down to experience, acknowledge there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche and give the bloke the most acidic feedack 20 words will allow !
Henry
Agree with Henry and more importantly £18,500 is a lot of cash to be spending on a car via an auction site. Go to a trusted expert second hand dealer and buy with the confidence that you will be getting a good car at market value. You get nothing in life for free. As TopGear magazine say YGWYPF (you get what you pay for).
Here is the car-facelifted 2.7. It turns out Porsche Solihull have paid him £18,250 for the car (!) and he couldnt be bothered to wait for another £250 (though 18.5k was the reserve that he set and nobody outbid me so its not that I could offer any more via ebay)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
Subject to the point about whether he reserved the right to sell the car outside of the auction, in theory you would be entitled to recover from the defaulting seller the difference between what he agreed to sell to you at and what you had to pay to source the same car elsewhere.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
It's frustrating, I know, but I'd be inclined to chalk it up to experience and direct your energy to finding another suitable car elsewhere.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
It's frustrating, I know, but I'd be inclined to chalk it up to experience and direct your energy to finding another suitable car elsewhere.
paracetamol said:
Here is the car-facelifted 2.7. It turns out Porsche Solihull have paid him £18,250 for the car (!) and he couldnt be bothered to wait for another £250 (though 18.5k was the reserve that he set and nobody outbid me so its not that I could offer any more via ebay)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
Paracetamol also sold.....
Very tasteful, mate. Very nice.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 28th November 15:06
Lurking Lawyer said:
Subject to the point about whether he reserved the right to sell the car outside of the auction, in theory you would be entitled to recover from the defaulting seller the difference between what he agreed to sell to you at and what you had to pay to source the same car elsewhere.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
I don't know why but I think there might be a pretty-much identical one at Solihull Porsche...
Have a look here: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies
ebay takes a dim view of sellers who state they reserve the right to sell the item elsewhere and then let the auction run to completion. You can cancel the auction up to 12 hours before the close but if you let it run to completion and then refuse to sell the item that's tantamount to having a hidden reserve price. Some people have claimed that under English law when an auction closes there's a binding contract in place and the seller can only get out of the contract if the buyer is willing to not enforce it. But short of taking the seller to court there isn't much you can realistically do if the seller reneges.
But if you leave negative feedback he's likely to do so the same for you. Best to just move on.
ebay takes a dim view of sellers who state they reserve the right to sell the item elsewhere and then let the auction run to completion. You can cancel the auction up to 12 hours before the close but if you let it run to completion and then refuse to sell the item that's tantamount to having a hidden reserve price. Some people have claimed that under English law when an auction closes there's a binding contract in place and the seller can only get out of the contract if the buyer is willing to not enforce it. But short of taking the seller to court there isn't much you can realistically do if the seller reneges.
But if you leave negative feedback he's likely to do so the same for you. Best to just move on.
Edited by phelix on Tuesday 28th November 17:18
Vesuvius 996 said:
paracetamol said:
Here is the car-facelifted 2.7. It turns out Porsche Solihull have paid him £18,250 for the car (!) and he couldnt be bothered to wait for another £250 (though 18.5k was the reserve that he set and nobody outbid me so its not that I could offer any more via ebay)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl
Here it is at Porsche Solihull so it couldnt have been a bad un especially as he'd bought it as an approved used some months earlier:
http://ucl.porsche.de/uk/ucl/clients.
So they slapped his raw botty twice- once when he bought it (I'd guess for £27k) and they made £6k and once when he's sold it back (and lost 9k in less than a year). Still it makes it look like the residuals are great as the car has only lost 3k in retail value!
Yet another customer who will never do business with Porsche again I suspect...
Paracetamol also sold.....
Very tasteful, mate. Very nice.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 28th November 15:06
and this commig from a driver of a purple porsche
anywy a big seller at a certain very successful store named John Lewis...not for my abode anyway (use it to dress development properties)
Edited by paracetamol on Tuesday 28th November 17:33
Edited by paracetamol on Tuesday 28th November 19:24
I guess I've got more experience than most when it comes to this subject having bought the car in my profile via ebay, seller refusing to sell and then it getting messy.
I got the car in the end, but to be honest that was due to me insisting I took it to the n'th degree out of pure principle because the seller told more bare faced lies and rubbish than was tolerable.
If this seller has been honest and you can see what has happened then if I was in your shoes I'd probably be a bit annoyed but give it up as bad luck. If not then it would be different.
Another will come along and it will be better and cheaper...fate is funny like that
I got the car in the end, but to be honest that was due to me insisting I took it to the n'th degree out of pure principle because the seller told more bare faced lies and rubbish than was tolerable.
If this seller has been honest and you can see what has happened then if I was in your shoes I'd probably be a bit annoyed but give it up as bad luck. If not then it would be different.
Another will come along and it will be better and cheaper...fate is funny like that
Paracetemol, wasn't it you who said last week that he wouldn't be buying a Porsche due to climate change/global warming etc . and the damage you felt you would do to the planet by adding more CO2 emissions ?
A good thing then perhaps that you failed to win the car on e bay , or have you had a change of heart ?
Rgds. TC
A good thing then perhaps that you failed to win the car on e bay , or have you had a change of heart ?
Rgds. TC
runner911 said:
Paracetemol, wasn't it you who said last week that he wouldn't be buying a Porsche due to climate change/global warming etc . and the damage you felt you would do to the planet by adding more CO2 emissions ?
A good thing then perhaps that you failed to win the car on e bay , or have you had a change of heart ?
Rgds. TC
A good thing then perhaps that you failed to win the car on e bay , or have you had a change of heart ?
Rgds. TC
Was in the market for a 996/7 or a 645csi. Ken's threats of a £25 daily charge with no discounts have put a stop to this as these cars will be decimated in value in 2/3 years. What is really frustrating is that the 630csi is 1g/km (226g/km) higher than band F!.
Decided on a cheap 2.7 as this is the lowest emissions in the Porsche range. Plan to only keep it for 6 months till the new baby arrives.. and to then change principle vehicle for something less poluting. Would have been a SUV of some sort but now looking for a low emitting exec vehicle like a a6 2.0tdi or a 520/525d.
Edited by paracetamol on Wednesday 29th November 16:55
Paracetemol , I'm sure that those who have just/are about to purchase a new Porsche won't be too impressed with your comments regarding values in 3 years time.
Livingstone will only get away with this daylight robbery if he is allowed. It's up to those whom the "congestion charge/theft " affects to stop him.
Also, if I interpreted your comments last week correctly, your reason given for cancelling your order for a new Porsche was not so much the issue of residual values etc. , but more on the effect you seem to think that using such a vehicle would have on climate change , as per the monotonous mantra spouted by the current administration of bliar and his little coterie.
You now seem to have been quite willing to buy a 2.7 Boxster with the intention of using it , albeit for 6 months only.If in fact you believe what you preached to all of us last week about CO2 emissions etc., buying a Porsche should surely have been one of your last choices.
Do you have a firm view on the issue of climate change or not ?
Livingstone will only get away with this daylight robbery if he is allowed. It's up to those whom the "congestion charge/theft " affects to stop him.
Also, if I interpreted your comments last week correctly, your reason given for cancelling your order for a new Porsche was not so much the issue of residual values etc. , but more on the effect you seem to think that using such a vehicle would have on climate change , as per the monotonous mantra spouted by the current administration of bliar and his little coterie.
You now seem to have been quite willing to buy a 2.7 Boxster with the intention of using it , albeit for 6 months only.If in fact you believe what you preached to all of us last week about CO2 emissions etc., buying a Porsche should surely have been one of your last choices.
Do you have a firm view on the issue of climate change or not ?
Lurking Lawyer said said:
Subject to the point about whether he reserved the right to sell the car outside of the auction, in theory you would be entitled to recover from the defaulting seller the difference between what he agreed to sell to you at and what you had to pay to source the same car elsewhere.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
In practice, finding a car of the same age, colour, spec etc might be difficult. And unless you go on to buy a car of the same, or almost the same, spec arguably you have no real loss to recover.
Wouldn't disagree with any of that- though query whether ther's any contract at all with a bidder under an auction. Isn't it an invitation to treat? If there's no contract then you're into misrep territory.
Anyway, apart from the legals, sorry to hear about the one that got away- hope the next one works out for you!
R
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