997- new engine required!
Discussion
I bought a new 997 about 18 months ago. About 6,000 miles and it needs a new engine. Apparently a bearing on the intermediate shaft packed in. I am slightly apprehensive about the matter and the prospect of the same happening with a new engine.
The dealer has said the same won't happen with a new engine. Does anyone have any knowledge of the problem?
The dealer has said the same won't happen with a new engine. Does anyone have any knowledge of the problem?
c310 said:
I bought a new 997 about 18 months ago. About 6,000 miles and it needs a new engine. Apparently a bearing on the intermediate shaft packed in. I am slightly apprehensive about the matter and the prospect of the same happening with a new engine.
The dealer has said the same won't happen with a new engine. Does anyone have any knowledge of the problem?
The dealer has said the same won't happen with a new engine. Does anyone have any knowledge of the problem?
:headinhands:
runs for cover This is really bad news ... I know it's just one reported 997 intermediate shaft issue ,but it's still early days.
I would guess that a very high percentage of 996 owners posting here aspire to owning a 997 sooner or later. I would like to think that any intermediate shaft or cylinder problems have been resolved. Fingers crossed this is an isolated case.
I would guess that a very high percentage of 996 owners posting here aspire to owning a 997 sooner or later. I would like to think that any intermediate shaft or cylinder problems have been resolved. Fingers crossed this is an isolated case.
The garage have been a bit coy about sharing the facts. They have assured me that the problem won't happen with a new engine but then they would say that.
I'm not sure which bearing broke. If anyone knows how many there are (on the intermediate shaft) I can ask when I collect the car in a week or so. I think this shaft powers the oil pump etc
I'm not sure which bearing broke. If anyone knows how many there are (on the intermediate shaft) I can ask when I collect the car in a week or so. I think this shaft powers the oil pump etc
Engines fail occasionally, it's a fact - even modern engines, even Porsche engines. Sometimes it is caused through abuse. Sometimes it is caused by component failure.
If they fail prematurely they don't repair it, they replace it. Over the longer term you can protect yourself with an extended warranty.
I wouldn't worry too much.
If they fail prematurely they don't repair it, they replace it. Over the longer term you can protect yourself with an extended warranty.
I wouldn't worry too much.
Hi there
they dont repair the engine as porsche germany say it is impossible to get all the bearing swarf from the engine lubrication system..............it was mine id damm sure try..
the 997 runs a bigger intermidiate shaft bearing which is supposed to stop this failure...WHOOPS !
all intermidiate shafts for 996 are a 997 one now......wonder how many times this will be modified ?
ive seen the damage caused by the bearing....you would not think possible for a bearing in oil to collapse?
but they do......and still 997 engines suffer the same problems as 997 RMS and cracked liners did 2 at dealer..
They are a little different in design but not much so those initial design probs are still there buried under modified parts well these parts are lasting slightly longer but not much....
We all know what to do live with it and buy a WARRANTY...........imho
thanks
mike
they dont repair the engine as porsche germany say it is impossible to get all the bearing swarf from the engine lubrication system..............it was mine id damm sure try..
the 997 runs a bigger intermidiate shaft bearing which is supposed to stop this failure...WHOOPS !
all intermidiate shafts for 996 are a 997 one now......wonder how many times this will be modified ?
ive seen the damage caused by the bearing....you would not think possible for a bearing in oil to collapse?
but they do......and still 997 engines suffer the same problems as 997 RMS and cracked liners did 2 at dealer..
They are a little different in design but not much so those initial design probs are still there buried under modified parts well these parts are lasting slightly longer but not much....
We all know what to do live with it and buy a WARRANTY...........imho
thanks
mike
Those are scary thoughts , Mike!! ... I asked Baz Hart a few months ago in a similar thread about 996 engine problems, if he thought the same problems could recur in the 997 engine. He reckoned it was too early to tell as they didn't get to see broken engines til cars started coming to them until they were out of warranty .
Would I be right in saying the first of the 997's are just beginning to fall out of their 'new car' manufacturers warranty ?...
Could be interesting times just ahead for Hartech , Autofarm etc ...
I don't yet know if the 997 engine has the same bearing in as the 996 (havn't had to strip one yet as warranty cover sorts out most customers with engine problems - direct with Porsche and engines are returned to them) - but if it has then there is a strange design idea that I don't understand (although that doesn't neccessarily mean it is wrong - there may be a perfectly good reason).
The bearing in the earlier 996 was a double row ball bearing later used when they changed to a Hivo chain and then replaced with a single row bearing (despite the fact that a Hivo chain imparts greater loadings). But in both cases the bearing is fitted with seals and grease filled from new.
Now it runs in basically a splash oil bath and when we strip down an engine - inside the hollow intermediate shaft is a lot of old black engine oil trapped in there - that has gradually seeped in.
Because the original bearings are a non-stock item I contacted the manufacturers to see if I could get new replacements and asked the guy why he thought Porsche had put seals and grease in the bearing - to which he replied that they also advised Porsche not to - so it remains a mystery to me.
I feel it would be better to receive fresh cooled splash oil than old trapped oil and also that when the seals are new they may seal well enough to force the bearing to rely upon the grease for lubrication - for which the speed rating is quite close to the limit. However it only affects a small handful of engines and one way or the other - I am sure Porsche will eventually sort the problem out (together will all the others).
The main problems we have come accross with the old engines are :- cracked cylinder heads, oil hole not drilled deep enough (to the chain tensioner), cracked cylinder liner, damaged intermediate shaft bearings, bent crankshaft/seized big ends, snapped chains, broken intermediate shaft chain tensioner arm, broken plastic anti-surge flap sump rivett getting in the oil pump and scoring it, broken valve spring and cylinder bores on 996's stretching oval and increasing cylinder/piston clearance allowing blow by to burn cylinder lubricating oil on the piston face.
Auxiliary problems are mainly air mass sensors, oxygen sensors, cracked coils, seized exhaust flange bolts, broken heat shield mounts, wiring loom inside tiptronic gearboxes, variocam solenoids, RMS (which we all know about now), water ingress in Boxsters drowning the under seat alarm system, electric window cables, corroded radiators and air-con condensers.
Sounds bad when it's is all listed - but it is not and the vast majority of these cars are absolutely superb - and if every owner accepted that there is a small cost to maintaining such a brilliant sports car range - and a very rare serious problem as the cost of the majority being able to afford such a fantastic car in the modern World - we may hear less criticism and more praise - which they richly deserve.
Overall the engines seem excellent as very few have any problems at all and although we read about those few that do on the internet - we must remember that the interney forums were not available (or in common use) when the 993/968 and earlier Porsche's were first manufactured and a very small number of them also had problems (some serious) - so we perhaps get a worse picture through more exposure rather than there being any fundamental down side.
They seem to me to be well made and although they follow the new Worldwide engineering principles (that result in us all benefitting from less relatively expensive products with occasional rare failures but mostly good reliability) but perhaps the problem is rather more that fewer places are capable of analysing the problems and rebuilding the engines - forcing a greater proportion of unhappy customers to face a bigger bill for a new engine - than before.
Baz Hartech
The bearing in the earlier 996 was a double row ball bearing later used when they changed to a Hivo chain and then replaced with a single row bearing (despite the fact that a Hivo chain imparts greater loadings). But in both cases the bearing is fitted with seals and grease filled from new.
Now it runs in basically a splash oil bath and when we strip down an engine - inside the hollow intermediate shaft is a lot of old black engine oil trapped in there - that has gradually seeped in.
Because the original bearings are a non-stock item I contacted the manufacturers to see if I could get new replacements and asked the guy why he thought Porsche had put seals and grease in the bearing - to which he replied that they also advised Porsche not to - so it remains a mystery to me.
I feel it would be better to receive fresh cooled splash oil than old trapped oil and also that when the seals are new they may seal well enough to force the bearing to rely upon the grease for lubrication - for which the speed rating is quite close to the limit. However it only affects a small handful of engines and one way or the other - I am sure Porsche will eventually sort the problem out (together will all the others).
The main problems we have come accross with the old engines are :- cracked cylinder heads, oil hole not drilled deep enough (to the chain tensioner), cracked cylinder liner, damaged intermediate shaft bearings, bent crankshaft/seized big ends, snapped chains, broken intermediate shaft chain tensioner arm, broken plastic anti-surge flap sump rivett getting in the oil pump and scoring it, broken valve spring and cylinder bores on 996's stretching oval and increasing cylinder/piston clearance allowing blow by to burn cylinder lubricating oil on the piston face.
Auxiliary problems are mainly air mass sensors, oxygen sensors, cracked coils, seized exhaust flange bolts, broken heat shield mounts, wiring loom inside tiptronic gearboxes, variocam solenoids, RMS (which we all know about now), water ingress in Boxsters drowning the under seat alarm system, electric window cables, corroded radiators and air-con condensers.
Sounds bad when it's is all listed - but it is not and the vast majority of these cars are absolutely superb - and if every owner accepted that there is a small cost to maintaining such a brilliant sports car range - and a very rare serious problem as the cost of the majority being able to afford such a fantastic car in the modern World - we may hear less criticism and more praise - which they richly deserve.
Overall the engines seem excellent as very few have any problems at all and although we read about those few that do on the internet - we must remember that the interney forums were not available (or in common use) when the 993/968 and earlier Porsche's were first manufactured and a very small number of them also had problems (some serious) - so we perhaps get a worse picture through more exposure rather than there being any fundamental down side.
They seem to me to be well made and although they follow the new Worldwide engineering principles (that result in us all benefitting from less relatively expensive products with occasional rare failures but mostly good reliability) but perhaps the problem is rather more that fewer places are capable of analysing the problems and rebuilding the engines - forcing a greater proportion of unhappy customers to face a bigger bill for a new engine - than before.
Baz Hartech
Baz .... You're a ray of sunshine !! It's interesting to read that the 997 bearing is bigger - but I don't think the size is the problem - but the lubrication.
However it is not difficult at all to clear all the swarf from the engines. Firstly - relatively little travels, the plastic pick up tubes can be split and cleaned and re-assembled, the camshaft driven pumps can be split and cleaned (but do trap bits if the intermediate shaft bearing breaks up) and perhaps the most difficult is the oil cooler - but then its not impossible.
So far (touch wood) we have not had a problem with swarf and I would have thought Porsche could handle it anyway - perhaps it is more a political decision to replace engines and strip the broken one to learn about causes and find remedies - a typical Japanese approach influencing our German manufacturers?
Baz Hartech
However it is not difficult at all to clear all the swarf from the engines. Firstly - relatively little travels, the plastic pick up tubes can be split and cleaned and re-assembled, the camshaft driven pumps can be split and cleaned (but do trap bits if the intermediate shaft bearing breaks up) and perhaps the most difficult is the oil cooler - but then its not impossible.
So far (touch wood) we have not had a problem with swarf and I would have thought Porsche could handle it anyway - perhaps it is more a political decision to replace engines and strip the broken one to learn about causes and find remedies - a typical Japanese approach influencing our German manufacturers?
Baz Hartech
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