944 - Deal or no deal?
Discussion
I would like to, if I may, draw upon the vast knowledge resource that is PH for some help with a little conundrum!
I have been looking for a 944 for a couple of months (having eventually decided along the way to opt for a Turbo rather than an S2) and last week I found the following:
1991 944 Turbo, 52k miles, Guards red.
To be honest the price seemed too good to be true, but I arranged to see the car anyway. The next day, however, the owner informed me that he had in fact made a mistake with the price (bad advice from a friend) and that the car was actually going for a good £2k more. The owner then contacted me again the following day, apologizing for messing me around and telling me that as he was leaving the country soon, I could still see the car at the original price.
Being a little skeptical, I arranged for the car to be inspected by Wrightune on the recommendation of ‘968csreading’ from this board (thanks again!). This is the report that Tony (who is a genuinely nice guy) came back with:
Body:
-N/S front foglamp trim missing
-Small crack O/S foglamp
-O/S sill corroded on front & rear join lines
-Dent O/S/R below lamp cluster
-Scratch N/S/R wing
-Chip N/S door swag line trim
-N/S mirror loose on door
-N/S door paint chipped lower back edge
Mechanical:
-Clutch requires replacement
-Fuel filter old
-Gearbox driveshaft output oil seals leaking
-Front brake discs corroded and unevenly worn
-Steel fuel pipes lightly corroded at rear torsion tube area
-Steel brake pipe slightly corroded, same area
-Non-standard exhaust, wastegate and air filter assembly fitted
-Anti-freeze content -7C protection
-Engine oil leak, oil cooler pipe to union in cylinder block
-LSD plates worn
-Cylinder leakage test: No1-9%; No2-6%; No3-3%; No4-9% (Piston rings)
The car has basically done an average of 3k a year since the owner bought it in ’95, and to be honest, the car hasn’t been driven enough. The car is a ’91 J-reg, but the vin says the car is a 1990. The first owner (in Kilmarnock) sold the car within 6 months. Should this make me wary? To tell the truth I am not too keen on the fact that the owner has messed about with the turbo (the pipe gradually comes loose and the clip needs to be re-tightened every 3 months or so after pushing it back in place). The belts were changed at 30k miles, but that was 8 years ago (!!!) so will probably need doing too. Apart from that, the clutch is the urgent matter, with a couple of other things jostling for attention in the ‘less urgent’ category. The body has its faults but is in generally good condition (how difficult/costly is it to repair scratches on the galvanized body?) and the leather interior is in good shape.
The owner and I originally agreed £8500 before the inspection. He may now consider £8k. How much would putting this car right cost though?
What this interminably long post (apologies, I just greatly value the opinion of those here with a far greater experience than mine of the marque!!!) boils down to is this simple question:
Deal or no deal?
>> Edited by jcsanders on Friday 28th April 15:37
I have been looking for a 944 for a couple of months (having eventually decided along the way to opt for a Turbo rather than an S2) and last week I found the following:
1991 944 Turbo, 52k miles, Guards red.
To be honest the price seemed too good to be true, but I arranged to see the car anyway. The next day, however, the owner informed me that he had in fact made a mistake with the price (bad advice from a friend) and that the car was actually going for a good £2k more. The owner then contacted me again the following day, apologizing for messing me around and telling me that as he was leaving the country soon, I could still see the car at the original price.
Being a little skeptical, I arranged for the car to be inspected by Wrightune on the recommendation of ‘968csreading’ from this board (thanks again!). This is the report that Tony (who is a genuinely nice guy) came back with:
Body:
-N/S front foglamp trim missing
-Small crack O/S foglamp
-O/S sill corroded on front & rear join lines
-Dent O/S/R below lamp cluster
-Scratch N/S/R wing
-Chip N/S door swag line trim
-N/S mirror loose on door
-N/S door paint chipped lower back edge
Mechanical:
-Clutch requires replacement
-Fuel filter old
-Gearbox driveshaft output oil seals leaking
-Front brake discs corroded and unevenly worn
-Steel fuel pipes lightly corroded at rear torsion tube area
-Steel brake pipe slightly corroded, same area
-Non-standard exhaust, wastegate and air filter assembly fitted
-Anti-freeze content -7C protection
-Engine oil leak, oil cooler pipe to union in cylinder block
-LSD plates worn
-Cylinder leakage test: No1-9%; No2-6%; No3-3%; No4-9% (Piston rings)
The car has basically done an average of 3k a year since the owner bought it in ’95, and to be honest, the car hasn’t been driven enough. The car is a ’91 J-reg, but the vin says the car is a 1990. The first owner (in Kilmarnock) sold the car within 6 months. Should this make me wary? To tell the truth I am not too keen on the fact that the owner has messed about with the turbo (the pipe gradually comes loose and the clip needs to be re-tightened every 3 months or so after pushing it back in place). The belts were changed at 30k miles, but that was 8 years ago (!!!) so will probably need doing too. Apart from that, the clutch is the urgent matter, with a couple of other things jostling for attention in the ‘less urgent’ category. The body has its faults but is in generally good condition (how difficult/costly is it to repair scratches on the galvanized body?) and the leather interior is in good shape.
The owner and I originally agreed £8500 before the inspection. He may now consider £8k. How much would putting this car right cost though?
What this interminably long post (apologies, I just greatly value the opinion of those here with a far greater experience than mine of the marque!!!) boils down to is this simple question:
Deal or no deal?
>> Edited by jcsanders on Friday 28th April 15:37
i'd agree. unless you own a bodyshop and your own garage, its gonna mount up very quick. I think 8K is way way optimistic, but then it may be that the owner is genuinely unaware of some of the mechanical issues. I would be thinking 4-5K, and that only if i was brave and patient. after all, 8k does buy that elusive beast, the mint 944T. which this isnt
Cheers for the replies guys - nice to get a (very!) clear consensus!! Goes with my original feeling too.
The report is thorough, and I really couldn't recommend Tony at Wrightune more. A good honest guy full of great advice.
I will be steering clear of this one, but this one www.pistonheads.com/sales/74726.htm has got my juices flowing! Looks like it may have been looked after with a lot more care!
The report is thorough, and I really couldn't recommend Tony at Wrightune more. A good honest guy full of great advice.
I will be steering clear of this one, but this one www.pistonheads.com/sales/74726.htm has got my juices flowing! Looks like it may have been looked after with a lot more care!
I agree wholeheartedly with the consensus - you have to be extemely careful to avoid what seems to be a typical £2000 worth of bills initially on these cars...I speak from experience of my 86 944T - Around 2k due (usual = sills/oily belts/brake discs/pads/callipers/power steering leaks etc)...though GT One in Chertsey have helped me enormously.
Check this other car THOROUGHLY!!!!!!!
Just my thoughts.
Tony.
Check this other car THOROUGHLY!!!!!!!
Just my thoughts.
Tony.
jcsanders said:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/74726.htm
Looks good but for I'm not sure about light coloured cloth in a 944 for that money.
jcsanders said:
That's the main sticking point for me too! I imagine having the car re-upholstered in leather is a costly exercise!
no, but you could probably pick up a couple of leather seats from a breakers yard for far less! if the car is otherwise good, and thats your only sticking point, might be worth a couple of phone calls. there are some breakers that specifically collect wrecked porscehe - cant remember the names but one advertises in the back of POrsche POst under the banner of "call us last"
Indeed Matt here I am - it is a lovely car with a stonking history
There is a very good sounding on on the PCGB one as well but it is in Edinburgh. The guy emaied me yesteday to ay he is reducing it to 6k
pm me if you want his emial or look in April's Porsche post
I bouhgt a cheaper one last week as a track toy, but if i had any spare cash I might have bought one of these two as well as a road car, but then my wife would probably leave
There is a very good sounding on on the PCGB one as well but it is in Edinburgh. The guy emaied me yesteday to ay he is reducing it to 6k
pm me if you want his emial or look in April's Porsche post
I bouhgt a cheaper one last week as a track toy, but if i had any spare cash I might have bought one of these two as well as a road car, but then my wife would probably leave
Scogue said:
There is at least a £3k mechanical there. Trust me, I know from experience.....
...and the rest!!! You could half of that on the gearbox and LSD. replacing the fule pipes aint cheap, especially if they need replacing all the way back to the tank.
..and if the suspension is fecked aswell thats another £££££
anonymous said:
[redacted]
All I am looking for is a well cared for Turbo (around 100k on the clock) preferably in Guards Red or Black with leather interior and that is unmodified - and all for around £8k...Am I being unrealistic?
The one in Edinburgh does look good, and Gmund also have a nice looking one. Just have to find time for the long treck up north!
I know the red one in the PH ad and mechanically it is spot on and very well maintained by Jon Mitchell in Bournemouth so I doubt very much there will be any maintenance issues. It was at my Weltmeister 944 Dyno Day last year and the owner is certainly no boy racer (its booked in again for the 2006 day on 120th May). I couldn't say what the cosmetics are like but it certainly didnt stick out as an old dog like some do when you first see them.
The first car is overpriced if all that mechanical work has to be done immediately, though to be fair my own car had surface corroison on brake pipes noted for four years worth of MOTs before they actually needed doing. The cosmetics on the first car seem par for the course for most good condition cars
The first car is overpriced if all that mechanical work has to be done immediately, though to be fair my own car had surface corroison on brake pipes noted for four years worth of MOTs before they actually needed doing. The cosmetics on the first car seem par for the course for most good condition cars
diver944 said:
I know the red one in the PH ad and mechanically it is spot on and very well maintained by Jon Mitchell in Bournemouth so I doubt very much there will be any maintenance issues. It was at my Weltmeister 944 Dyno Day last year and the owner is certainly no boy racer (its booked in again for the 2006 day on 120th May). I couldn't say what the cosmetics are like but it certainly didnt stick out as an old dog like some do when you first see them.
The first car is overpriced if all that mechanical work has to be done immediately, though to be fair my own car had surface corroison on brake pipes noted for four years worth of MOTs before they actually needed doing. The cosmetics on the first car seem par for the course for most good condition cars
It does look lovely and I have been in touch with the owner. Hoping to go and see the car soon (though it will be a stretch of the budget!) Even though it has been apparently well looked after, is it not very risky to just rely on a conversation with Jon Mitchell and not get it inspected?
ripton said:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/74726.htm
Looks good but for I'm not sure about light coloured cloth in a 944 for that money.
Especially the pinstripe stuff as it is totally unobtainable now for repairs etc.
I would agree, it sounds like an average car at best. its £4000 ish not £8000, if you need any inspections doing in the north let me know, we run an inspection service, I would reallly think for your budget you should get a very nice and most importantly original car for that money, one bit of advice I would give though is don't get too hung up on full Porsche service history, at this age few will have that, you will have a better choice and therefore possibly find a better car to look for a car that has been fastidiously maintained by a specialist or even a qualified owner.
Look for wadges of bills neatly itemised!
Look for wadges of bills neatly itemised!
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