Guidance on test drives with OPCs
Discussion
I am in the pleasant position to be buying my first Porsche. I've narrowed down to 718 Spyder, 718 GT4 or 991.1 GT3 (the last is a stretch as I'd rather not do finance). However, I need to know which I gel with. My biggest questions of the 3 are:
- Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
- Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
I can't help with the test-drive question as I've never bought from an OPC (although I did test drive a 996 GT3 and Cayman S from Porsche Hatfield although that was at least 10 years ago. They were very happy for me to test drive back then.)
I would say that my 981 GT4 was susprisingly noisy inside though - louder than my Lotus Elise according to my iphone dB app. I had to wear noise-cancelling earphones when I drove to Spa and back - in fact I used them for any boring journey over about 20 mins.
I would say that my 981 GT4 was susprisingly noisy inside though - louder than my Lotus Elise according to my iphone dB app. I had to wear noise-cancelling earphones when I drove to Spa and back - in fact I used them for any boring journey over about 20 mins.
GroundEffect said:
I am in the pleasant position to be buying my first Porsche. I've narrowed down to 718 Spyder, 718 GT4 or 991.1 GT3 (the last is a stretch as I'd rather not do finance). However, I need to know which I gel with. My biggest questions of the 3 are:
- Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
I'll try and answer some of your questions...- Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
718 Cayman/Boxster will meet the current euro standards so should sound quite muted (from the outside), but the engine is literally next to your head so inside so it is noisier, however I enjoy it. I'd imagine the Spyder with the soft top will be noisier still and down well it's quite obvious. I'd expect the GT3 to be equally as loud inside as there are no back seats and being a 991 will fall under previous regulations, so louder by default.
Could you live with that day in day out? If you're buying a GT product it's part of the deal and one of the many reasons to love it, it's constant engagement either on a B road on sat on the motorway.
As for the seats, personally I'd want buckets in a GT car, again it's part and parcel of what you are buying. I've had multiway sports seats in a GTS and buckets in my GT4, both are comfortable over a distance for me, but everyone is different so my advice would be to try them both. The only issue with buckets is they are extremely low so getting in/out isn't the easiest, something my wife doesn't care much for. And they are non-adjustable, you can increase the height/tilt only.
As for test drives, that would be a conversation withe your OPC I'd imagine.
BillyB said:
I would say that my 981 GT4 was susprisingly noisy inside though - louder than my Lotus Elise according to my iphone dB app. I had to wear noise-cancelling earphones when I drove to Spa and back - in fact I used them for any boring journey over about 20 mins.
This is what I'm nervous about. It's reason I'm selling my Elise that it's tiresome to do long journeys, so I just never took it anywhere to enjoy it. It remained a local b-road machine (and occasional track day toy) only. I want this new car to be a more reasonable proposition, but still be properly special and engaging. I looked at McLaren 570s as an alternative, but the reliability potential puts me off, and the yearly costs are hard to swallow (even if nothing goes wrong). I want to try all 3 at 70mph on various motorway surfaces and see how tiring it is. Especially if my OH is in the car, can we have a conversation.
On your 981, what were the dominating noises? Engine (mechanical noise, because of proximity), intake, exhaust, tyre/road, wind?
Cabin noise levels very similar across all three but the 718 Spyder and GT4 have way more induction sound...in a good way though.
Spyder has some additional buffeting noise from the hood particularly above c70mph.
991.1 GT3 pre gpf. Transmission noise greater than the more 'refined' 991.2 which doesn't suit all. Front lift available as an option on the GT3 unavailable on the 718s.
Bear in mind the 991.1 GT3 was the first to get PDK S with no creep facility so broadly 'manuel' means 'manuel' unlike standard PDK to the Spyder and GT4 which may 'feel' faster than the manuals but in reality isn't largely due extra weight and parasitic losses.
Some criticise the tall gearing of the 718 manuals but this is rarely an issue in particular relative to the 981s due to the better engines and torque developed at lower revs and higher 8k rev limit of the newer gen cars.
All three available with comforts or buckets but bear in mind the 991.1 GT3 only sold with the old now somewhat dated style p3 folding buckets with optional heaters which are a different shape to the later p11 'Spyder' buckets only fitted to the 718 Spyder and GT4 as these are wider at the seat and narrower at the shoulders than the older seats furthermore are designed more vertically although this can be modded. Other drawback to the older buckets is unlike the newer p11s they have no height adjustment and you sit slightly higher. Depends on your body shape and preferred seating position as to which best suits.
718 obvious alot newer car and warranty implications can affect the 991.1.....much discussed along with the engine issues etc.
For the record have owned all three the GT3 and GT4 from new and all are great cars but with rather different characters depending on what you want.
I would be inclined to try and arrange a back to back test drive of the 718s maybe start with a PDK then manual and see which you prefer.
HTH.
Spyder has some additional buffeting noise from the hood particularly above c70mph.
991.1 GT3 pre gpf. Transmission noise greater than the more 'refined' 991.2 which doesn't suit all. Front lift available as an option on the GT3 unavailable on the 718s.
Bear in mind the 991.1 GT3 was the first to get PDK S with no creep facility so broadly 'manuel' means 'manuel' unlike standard PDK to the Spyder and GT4 which may 'feel' faster than the manuals but in reality isn't largely due extra weight and parasitic losses.
Some criticise the tall gearing of the 718 manuals but this is rarely an issue in particular relative to the 981s due to the better engines and torque developed at lower revs and higher 8k rev limit of the newer gen cars.
All three available with comforts or buckets but bear in mind the 991.1 GT3 only sold with the old now somewhat dated style p3 folding buckets with optional heaters which are a different shape to the later p11 'Spyder' buckets only fitted to the 718 Spyder and GT4 as these are wider at the seat and narrower at the shoulders than the older seats furthermore are designed more vertically although this can be modded. Other drawback to the older buckets is unlike the newer p11s they have no height adjustment and you sit slightly higher. Depends on your body shape and preferred seating position as to which best suits.
718 obvious alot newer car and warranty implications can affect the 991.1.....much discussed along with the engine issues etc.
For the record have owned all three the GT3 and GT4 from new and all are great cars but with rather different characters depending on what you want.
I would be inclined to try and arrange a back to back test drive of the 718s maybe start with a PDK then manual and see which you prefer.
HTH.
GroundEffect said:
I am in the pleasant position to be buying my first Porsche. I've narrowed down to 718 Spyder, 718 GT4 or 991.1 GT3 (the last is a stretch as I'd rather not do finance). However, I need to know which I gel with. My biggest questions of the 3 are:
- Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
Good luck getting test drives on a GT car from an auth dealer. Many will check your financials first or ask for a deposit. Understandable as many “try” for a test drive. - Which are unbearably loud on a motorway cruise (car will be used for European jaunts)
- Which seat type is preferable (I love the look of the buckets, but will they fit me?)
- Manual vs PDK (I'd want to drive both to be sure)
How do I best go about getting some time with each? I've heard stories on here of OPCs showing no interest to punters who genuinely want to spend money. Is there consensus on which OPCs to avoid?
I am in Essex and my closest is East London OPC, but I would rather drive outside of the docklands to get a feel!
East London were good with me but that was +10 years ago...
I had the same noise concerns as you when buying (another brand) car recently. I specifically searched for cars which were at out of town dealers so that I could see what they felt like at m-way speeds. Added bonus, it was in 2021 during Covid measures, so got to do all test drives by myself.
I had the same noise concerns as you when buying (another brand) car recently. I specifically searched for cars which were at out of town dealers so that I could see what they felt like at m-way speeds. Added bonus, it was in 2021 during Covid measures, so got to do all test drives by myself.
Don't get thd gt3. It will make every other car seem average. Also, gt3 can't be fully experienced on an opc test drive.
Opc test drives won't give you an ownership experience. Just an idea of what roads are like local to the opc.
From my experience, early gt4s are very good motors and alot of fun. Gt3 will be next level.
Ultimately try them and let us know what you think.
Opc test drives won't give you an ownership experience. Just an idea of what roads are like local to the opc.
From my experience, early gt4s are very good motors and alot of fun. Gt3 will be next level.
Ultimately try them and let us know what you think.
GroundEffect said:
This is what I'm nervous about. It's reason I'm selling my Elise that it's tiresome to do long journeys, so I just never took it anywhere to enjoy it. It remained a local b-road machine (and occasional track day toy) only. I want this new car to be a more reasonable proposition, but still be properly special and engaging. I looked at McLaren 570s as an alternative, but the reliability potential puts me off, and the yearly costs are hard to swallow (even if nothing goes wrong).
I want to try all 3 at 70mph on various motorway surfaces and see how tiring it is. Especially if my OH is in the car, can we have a conversation.
On your 981, what were the dominating noises? Engine (mechanical noise, because of proximity), intake, exhaust, tyre/road, wind?
I swapped an Elise 250 Cup for a 718 Spyder. The Spyder is quieter and more refined. I can hold a conversation in the Spyder, listen to the stereo and it’s much closer to a normal car than the lotus. I want to try all 3 at 70mph on various motorway surfaces and see how tiring it is. Especially if my OH is in the car, can we have a conversation.
On your 981, what were the dominating noises? Engine (mechanical noise, because of proximity), intake, exhaust, tyre/road, wind?
To be clear, it’s not like cruising in a Merc as the soft top makes a noise and the engine is behind your head, but it is manageable in a way the Elise wasn’t so much.
Chemical Ali said:
Don't get thd gt3. It will make every other car seem average. Also, gt3 can't be fully experienced on an opc test drive.
Opc test drives won't give you an ownership experience. Just an idea of what roads are like local to the opc.
From my experience, early gt4s are very good motors and alot of fun. Gt3 will be next level.
Ultimately try them and let us know what you think.
You mean don't try the GT3 because I'll end up with credit that I don't want? Opc test drives won't give you an ownership experience. Just an idea of what roads are like local to the opc.
From my experience, early gt4s are very good motors and alot of fun. Gt3 will be next level.
Ultimately try them and let us know what you think.
jimmyslr said:
GroundEffect said:
This is what I'm nervous about. It's reason I'm selling my Elise that it's tiresome to do long journeys, so I just never took it anywhere to enjoy it. It remained a local b-road machine (and occasional track day toy) only. I want this new car to be a more reasonable proposition, but still be properly special and engaging. I looked at McLaren 570s as an alternative, but the reliability potential puts me off, and the yearly costs are hard to swallow (even if nothing goes wrong).
I want to try all 3 at 70mph on various motorway surfaces and see how tiring it is. Especially if my OH is in the car, can we have a conversation.
On your 981, what were the dominating noises? Engine (mechanical noise, because of proximity), intake, exhaust, tyre/road, wind?
I swapped an Elise 250 Cup for a 718 Spyder. The Spyder is quieter and more refined. I can hold a conversation in the Spyder, listen to the stereo and it’s much closer to a normal car than the lotus. I want to try all 3 at 70mph on various motorway surfaces and see how tiring it is. Especially if my OH is in the car, can we have a conversation.
On your 981, what were the dominating noises? Engine (mechanical noise, because of proximity), intake, exhaust, tyre/road, wind?
To be clear, it’s not like cruising in a Merc as the soft top makes a noise and the engine is behind your head, but it is manageable in a way the Elise wasn’t so much.
Okay let's get some phonecalls made on the weekend then. Fun problem to have I know.
You might struggle getting a test drive of a GT car (let alone several, or have to travel some distance to different OPCs). I enquired about a GT4 and was told the only way to test drive was after agreeing a deal a drive would be available. Conversely when looking for a 992 a few years ago I was given a 3 hour test drive on my own which was rather enjoyable.
You could of course get a good drive of some of those cars at the PEC, they will cater the experience to your requirements which could mean a bit of track and then out onto the roads. I drove the GTS (manual) and GT4 (PDK) which was great and when I wanted to try and drift they were very accommodating although I failed miserably! The GT4 is a superb car, loved the PDK but they are pretty noisy - but isn’t that part of it? Definitely recommend checking the seats out - many view the carbon buckets as essential but for me the lack of lumbar support and awkward entry/exit means the comfort seats would be the only option.
I also test drove the 570S spider and the Mc dealer was very helpful, again just handing the keys over for an hour. I was very pleasantly surprised by the car and it felt much more of an event to drive than the 992, obviously quick, extremely comfortable and when dropping the rear window (or putting the top down) sounded fantastic. Parked up back at the dealer, locked the car and the drivers window dropped (oh probably just a sensor sir… not a great advert on the test drive).
Enjoy working out which is right for you!
You could of course get a good drive of some of those cars at the PEC, they will cater the experience to your requirements which could mean a bit of track and then out onto the roads. I drove the GTS (manual) and GT4 (PDK) which was great and when I wanted to try and drift they were very accommodating although I failed miserably! The GT4 is a superb car, loved the PDK but they are pretty noisy - but isn’t that part of it? Definitely recommend checking the seats out - many view the carbon buckets as essential but for me the lack of lumbar support and awkward entry/exit means the comfort seats would be the only option.
I also test drove the 570S spider and the Mc dealer was very helpful, again just handing the keys over for an hour. I was very pleasantly surprised by the car and it felt much more of an event to drive than the 992, obviously quick, extremely comfortable and when dropping the rear window (or putting the top down) sounded fantastic. Parked up back at the dealer, locked the car and the drivers window dropped (oh probably just a sensor sir… not a great advert on the test drive).
Enjoy working out which is right for you!
Hoping this may help. Also in Essex and smack bang between East London and Colchester. Just picked up my first Porsche (a Carrera T), decided to try for the allocation through Colchester as ideally didn't want to test drive and keep having to come back closer into London. Organised it all over the phone back at the end of 2022 and they had a GTS for me to try as soon as they opened after the Xmas break - very simple and welcoming experience. My wife and I were told to take it for a few hours if we wanted and drive it on whatever type of roads we liked. Came back after about 90mins, put my deposit down and the rest is history!
Had varying experiences with test drives. My first drive - having had zero relationship with Porsche before - was a Cayman, “Here’s the keys, bring it back tomorrow”.
Having since bought several from the same OPC, longer test drives were never a problem, until last year. Usual OPC but my regular sales person had left. New sales guy was totally resistant to me have a test drive of any sort. Seemed horrified at the thought of letting me out on my own in one of their cars, “we don’t allow that - all test drives are on local roads and you must be accompanied by us”.
After looking me up on their system he relented, I did get a drive, but he still seemed very anxious that I wanted an hours drive. Checked several times before I left that I’d only be an hour and no longer.
Not sure why the new nervousness.
Having since bought several from the same OPC, longer test drives were never a problem, until last year. Usual OPC but my regular sales person had left. New sales guy was totally resistant to me have a test drive of any sort. Seemed horrified at the thought of letting me out on my own in one of their cars, “we don’t allow that - all test drives are on local roads and you must be accompanied by us”.
After looking me up on their system he relented, I did get a drive, but he still seemed very anxious that I wanted an hours drive. Checked several times before I left that I’d only be an hour and no longer.
Not sure why the new nervousness.
There's quite a bit of difference not only between the cars you're considering, but also the car you've had.
In comparison I think you'll find any of the Porsche's quite refined compared to the Lotus. The rest is down to size you need/want, how much you want to spend, and how many seats are required.
Don't let anyone influence you one way or the other, the only real way for you to know is to spend some time in each.
Enjoy the search, and don't rule out decent independents... I would have thought all dealers would be keen to make sales currently, and if that requires allowing you a test drive, then why wouldn't they.
In comparison I think you'll find any of the Porsche's quite refined compared to the Lotus. The rest is down to size you need/want, how much you want to spend, and how many seats are required.
Don't let anyone influence you one way or the other, the only real way for you to know is to spend some time in each.
Enjoy the search, and don't rule out decent independents... I would have thought all dealers would be keen to make sales currently, and if that requires allowing you a test drive, then why wouldn't they.
I’ve owned multiple examples of all three of these, plus I also have an Elise for reference.
As a car to daily and to live with I find the 718GT4 to be quite hard work to be honest. They have a lot of tyre noise, general belt noise, intake noise and background noise that actually makes them very tiring. My last one, a 2022 PDK car was particularly bad for this. Yes they are a great drive and can be proper fun however as a daily drive around the M25 for example they can be a bit crap TBH. You really do need to drive one for a decent distance to see how it fits into your life and expectations. Bit of a long shot but the Porsche Experience Center at Silverstone used to allow you to pay for an experience session and drive it on the road rather than on the track. That might be an option?
I personally found the Spyder a much better car to live with day in day out as long as you could put up with the faffing about with the hood whenever you need to get into the boot. The Spyder has an additional bulkhead between the cabin and the powertrain, this certainly reduces the amount of mechanical noise. Up to about 70MPH the additional wind noise from the hood when it’s up is OK. Above that it gets a bit loud. Unless it’s actually raining I drove my Spyders hood down. They have brilliant heaters, heated seats (not buckets) and a heated steering wheel are optional. Hood down they are great and very civilized up to about 85/90 MPH. Above that it gets a bit windy but not too bad. Best I did hood down was over 150MPH which was still OK. Once the hood is down and at UK road speeds the Spyder is streets ahead of a GT4. The other thing of note is that the Spyder can be specified with the Burmester stereo upgrade. This cannot be done on a GT4 or a GT3. The Burmester system is superb. In a Burmester Spyder it is perfectly possible to blast up a UK motorway top down and listen to a podcast or take a phone call and hear every word. Good luck with that in a GT4.
As far as the 991 GT3 goes they are noisy but in a nicer way than the GT4. Less drone and belt whine. There is more mechanical chatter from the powertrain but I think the bigger space behind the seats helps to attenuate this a bit. Similar tyre noise. They also have no PPF so it’s a much sweeter exhaust noise. I never had any complaints about the GT3 interior noise levels they seem to be well matched to the car.
My top 3 for NVH and general living with it would be:
1. 991 GT3
2. 718 Spyder
3. 718 GT4
As a car to daily and to live with I find the 718GT4 to be quite hard work to be honest. They have a lot of tyre noise, general belt noise, intake noise and background noise that actually makes them very tiring. My last one, a 2022 PDK car was particularly bad for this. Yes they are a great drive and can be proper fun however as a daily drive around the M25 for example they can be a bit crap TBH. You really do need to drive one for a decent distance to see how it fits into your life and expectations. Bit of a long shot but the Porsche Experience Center at Silverstone used to allow you to pay for an experience session and drive it on the road rather than on the track. That might be an option?
I personally found the Spyder a much better car to live with day in day out as long as you could put up with the faffing about with the hood whenever you need to get into the boot. The Spyder has an additional bulkhead between the cabin and the powertrain, this certainly reduces the amount of mechanical noise. Up to about 70MPH the additional wind noise from the hood when it’s up is OK. Above that it gets a bit loud. Unless it’s actually raining I drove my Spyders hood down. They have brilliant heaters, heated seats (not buckets) and a heated steering wheel are optional. Hood down they are great and very civilized up to about 85/90 MPH. Above that it gets a bit windy but not too bad. Best I did hood down was over 150MPH which was still OK. Once the hood is down and at UK road speeds the Spyder is streets ahead of a GT4. The other thing of note is that the Spyder can be specified with the Burmester stereo upgrade. This cannot be done on a GT4 or a GT3. The Burmester system is superb. In a Burmester Spyder it is perfectly possible to blast up a UK motorway top down and listen to a podcast or take a phone call and hear every word. Good luck with that in a GT4.
As far as the 991 GT3 goes they are noisy but in a nicer way than the GT4. Less drone and belt whine. There is more mechanical chatter from the powertrain but I think the bigger space behind the seats helps to attenuate this a bit. Similar tyre noise. They also have no PPF so it’s a much sweeter exhaust noise. I never had any complaints about the GT3 interior noise levels they seem to be well matched to the car.
My top 3 for NVH and general living with it would be:
1. 991 GT3
2. 718 Spyder
3. 718 GT4
Thanks for the insights chaps. They are valuable but as said above, it's my money so I'm going to be the judge. If I can convince someone to let me try first!
I'll go look at the PEC option as that just sounds like a fun day out anyway.
Note: surprised slightly with the feedback the Spyder is better than GT4 - which is a relief because that is such a beautiful car I'd be inclined to try and put up with it.
Note 2: this will be a second or third car (if you count my OHs) so not too concerned about dailying. And my office is in central London so I won't be driving even if I wanted to!
I'll go look at the PEC option as that just sounds like a fun day out anyway.
Note: surprised slightly with the feedback the Spyder is better than GT4 - which is a relief because that is such a beautiful car I'd be inclined to try and put up with it.
Note 2: this will be a second or third car (if you count my OHs) so not too concerned about dailying. And my office is in central London so I won't be driving even if I wanted to!
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff