964 RS - Daily Driver????????
Discussion
Hi, anybody out there use a 964 RS as a daily commuting transport?
I'd like to consider one of these, but it would have to be my everyday car and I'm really concerned about the harsh ride, becoming impossible to live with, once the novelty has worn off.
Alternatively can any one reccommend or have experience of, a std. 964 being modded to a RS type spec., but maintainimg a acceptable ride quality?
I'd like to consider one of these, but it would have to be my everyday car and I'm really concerned about the harsh ride, becoming impossible to live with, once the novelty has worn off.
Alternatively can any one reccommend or have experience of, a std. 964 being modded to a RS type spec., but maintainimg a acceptable ride quality?
On my 964C2 i have had the standard suspension set up, H+R coilovers, and H+R supercups.
The standard suspension is fine for the road but is too soft for trackwork IMO.
The H+R coilovers are a fasr road/track set up and while noticably firmer than the stock set up is perfectly usable as a daily driver and I did use mine as such with these fitted. On track they gave 95% of the RS experience and the performance of the car in this state was not manifestly different from a stock RS. As a daily driver this would be my choice.
The H+R supercups are equilant or slighly stiffer than RS spec suspension and while the car is drivable on the road it's not a particularly pleasant experience. I would also say that on UK roads the car is slower than with the H+R coilovers because the lack of suspension compliance affects grip on bumpy badly surfaced roads. It's also true to say the car is handful in the wet road or track with the supercups.
The standard suspension is fine for the road but is too soft for trackwork IMO.
The H+R coilovers are a fasr road/track set up and while noticably firmer than the stock set up is perfectly usable as a daily driver and I did use mine as such with these fitted. On track they gave 95% of the RS experience and the performance of the car in this state was not manifestly different from a stock RS. As a daily driver this would be my choice.
The H+R supercups are equilant or slighly stiffer than RS spec suspension and while the car is drivable on the road it's not a particularly pleasant experience. I would also say that on UK roads the car is slower than with the H+R coilovers because the lack of suspension compliance affects grip on bumpy badly surfaced roads. It's also true to say the car is handful in the wet road or track with the supercups.
clubsport said:
Domster!!!!
Thanks Paul.
Yeah, the RS can be used everyday. I commuted in it 70 miles a day at one point (once upon a time, a long long time ago).
Poor road surfaces and speedhumps were a pain, but normal roads were fine. B roads are where you have to be careful, you can get launched off a hump in the road if they are very uneven.
It can be done. I used to commute in a Caterham 7 (even in the snow) so it really depends on how committed you are. You even get locking doors and a stereo in the 964RS.
You can always put softer 993RS struts on the front of the 964RS to make it more road-useable. A few owners do this.
Everything will be a compromise between road manners and track ability. I quite liked the hardcore nature of the RS, so I wouldn't worry about changing the struts. I'd rather change my fillings every few years when the old ones fall out
Go on, don't be a jessie!
PS The novely WON'T wear off. That's the beauty of the 964RS. If it's the right car for you then nothing else will really have the same appeal.
PPS It's also worth pointing out:
964RS + road manners = 993RS
Which is why it is probably the best production Porsche that has been made.
>> Edited by domster on Thursday 19th May 14:16
PPS It's also worth pointing out:
964RS + road manners = 993RS
Which is why it is probably the best production Porsche that has been made.
>> Edited by domster on Thursday 19th May 14:16
crbox,
I'm going down the route of gradually modding my '90 C2 towards RS spec.
To date it has the following :
Decat
Cup pipe
Cup airbox / K&N
RS clutch and flywheel
Fully rebuilt top and bottom end (to standard 964 spec)
Re-bushed front wisbones
Bilstein HD shocks
H&R progressive springs
Lowered 30mm (RS is 40mm)
Front splitter
Air ducts
Front strut brace
Momo Monte Carlo wheel
Recaro SPG seats
Stable energies harness bar
Luke 4 point harnesses
Rear seats removed
993 front and rear brakes
Performance Friction pads
Non-elec teardrop mirrors
17" Cup wheels
Dunlop SSR track tyres
Full geo and corner balance by Neil Bainbridge
erm... think that's it.
The ride is certainly stiff, but certainly useable on road - indeed comfortable on motorway. I think that it starts to become unacceptable when you move to solid top mounts - much more noise / vibration etc transfered through the suspension. The seats are a pain to get in and out of (the slightly wider Pole Position seats would be easier). The RS clutch and flywheel make it quite hard work to drive in heavy stop / start traffic and the brakes squeal like hell. So, would it be useable as an everyday car? well yes, but would I want to ? Probably not ! I think it just requires a bit too much effort and concentration to drive esp. if you are having to deal with heavy traffic. Also lack of aircon adds to commuter discomfort.
All that said, I love the car to bits, but this is still a long long way from full RS spec, which just isn't realistically / economically achievable. There are so many tiny differences in almost every component that just make the RS a brilliant package. My car goes some way to approximating it (and once I have my new RS interior, it will be virtually indistinguishable from an RS cosmetically). I would never badge it as an RS as that would be disingenuous. It is more of an 'homage' to the RS, whilst still trying to retain some of the manners of the C2.
Jamie
I'm going down the route of gradually modding my '90 C2 towards RS spec.
To date it has the following :
Decat
Cup pipe
Cup airbox / K&N
RS clutch and flywheel
Fully rebuilt top and bottom end (to standard 964 spec)
Re-bushed front wisbones
Bilstein HD shocks
H&R progressive springs
Lowered 30mm (RS is 40mm)
Front splitter
Air ducts
Front strut brace
Momo Monte Carlo wheel
Recaro SPG seats
Stable energies harness bar
Luke 4 point harnesses
Rear seats removed
993 front and rear brakes
Performance Friction pads
Non-elec teardrop mirrors
17" Cup wheels
Dunlop SSR track tyres
Full geo and corner balance by Neil Bainbridge
erm... think that's it.
The ride is certainly stiff, but certainly useable on road - indeed comfortable on motorway. I think that it starts to become unacceptable when you move to solid top mounts - much more noise / vibration etc transfered through the suspension. The seats are a pain to get in and out of (the slightly wider Pole Position seats would be easier). The RS clutch and flywheel make it quite hard work to drive in heavy stop / start traffic and the brakes squeal like hell. So, would it be useable as an everyday car? well yes, but would I want to ? Probably not ! I think it just requires a bit too much effort and concentration to drive esp. if you are having to deal with heavy traffic. Also lack of aircon adds to commuter discomfort.
All that said, I love the car to bits, but this is still a long long way from full RS spec, which just isn't realistically / economically achievable. There are so many tiny differences in almost every component that just make the RS a brilliant package. My car goes some way to approximating it (and once I have my new RS interior, it will be virtually indistinguishable from an RS cosmetically). I would never badge it as an RS as that would be disingenuous. It is more of an 'homage' to the RS, whilst still trying to retain some of the manners of the C2.
Jamie
Jamie Summers said:
crbox,
All that said, I love the car to bits, but this is still a long long way from full RS spec, which just isn't realistically / economically achievable. There are so many tiny differences in almost every component that just make the RS a brilliant package. My car goes some way to approximating it (and once I have my new RS interior, it will be virtually indistinguishable from an RS cosmetically). I would never badge it as an RS as that would be disingenuous. It is more of an 'homage' to the RS, whilst still trying to retain some of the manners of the C2.
You're right in saying that it isn't economicaly viable to replicate an RS from a C2. You can however make a C2 into a better track car than a stock RS for less money than you would have to pay to buy an RS.
[/quote]
You can however make a C2 into a better track car than a stock RS for less money than you would have to pay to buy an RS.[/quote]
Probably true, but even so I think you'd be better off buying an RS in the first place (assuming that's an option) as that should, in theory, hold it's value, whereas the investment required to make a C2 a better track car than an RS would not necessarily enhance its value significantly.
Pound for pound spent the RS would be the better buy, all other things being equal.
Jamie Summers said:
Probably true, but even so I think you'd be better off buying an RS in the first place (assuming that's an option) as that should, in theory, hold it's value, whereas the investment required to make a C2 a better track car than an RS would not necessarily enhance its value significantly.
Pound for pound spent the RS would be the better buy, all other things being equal.
Absolutely right.
Thanks for the quick responses guys - I guess that I'll just have to take one for a long test drive - and try and make the right decision - for me.
I don't particularly object to any discomfort -I actually want to go back to a simple car.
However, I find that whenever I take my Austin Healey Comp. car in to work, for example, I find myself getting hacked off by slow or stationary traffic. The hotter the engine gets, the worse it is to operate and the more I wish I wasn't in it.
I hope an RS won't have similar traits.
Obviously any 911/964/993/996 would be a better all rounder, it's but the attraction of an exotic, especially a Porsche, is sadly inescapable.
Do you think LHD be easy to sell on, if it didn't work out and why do people really suppose that these cars are not likely to depreciate?
I don't particularly object to any discomfort -I actually want to go back to a simple car.
However, I find that whenever I take my Austin Healey Comp. car in to work, for example, I find myself getting hacked off by slow or stationary traffic. The hotter the engine gets, the worse it is to operate and the more I wish I wasn't in it.
I hope an RS won't have similar traits.
Obviously any 911/964/993/996 would be a better all rounder, it's but the attraction of an exotic, especially a Porsche, is sadly inescapable.
Do you think LHD be easy to sell on, if it didn't work out and why do people really suppose that these cars are not likely to depreciate?
I think that the interior of a non-Clubsport spec 964 RS is fine for driving into work. It will be fine in traffic, I don't mind traffic in my 993 RS which is way more mental than most.
A well cared for 964 RS in LHD will be easy enough to sell. Don't worry about that. They are also depreciation-proof, as long as you don't spend too much on one in the first place of course.
A well cared for 964 RS in LHD will be easy enough to sell. Don't worry about that. They are also depreciation-proof, as long as you don't spend too much on one in the first place of course.
The 964RS is fine in traffic. The engine oil may heat up a little but never critically in my experience - although many owners remove the rear undertray as a precaution as (I believe) the exhaust valve guides suffer under excessive heat. Someone more technical like 9M may be able to chip in here.
If you can get past the lack of power steering (fine when on the move), floor mounted pedals (every 911 before the 996 had these of course!) and sharp clutch, then they are easy as a Micra to drive. Sweet gearbox, especially.
As for LHD, 99% of the 964RSs produced were LHD. Only 50 or so were RHD out of a production run of a couple of thousand. The RHD ones have power steering (frowned upon by the hardcore) and underseal (most UK LHD ones will have been waxoyled by now anyway). The prices between LHD and RHD ones have narrowed considerably. The RHD still has a premium of course, but rarity and driving on the 'proper side' has not proven as attractive to the market as it perhaps should have done...the non-PAS and therefore arguably more pure LHD version has the majority appeal.
All the above in my very biased and somewhat warped opinion
If you can get past the lack of power steering (fine when on the move), floor mounted pedals (every 911 before the 996 had these of course!) and sharp clutch, then they are easy as a Micra to drive. Sweet gearbox, especially.
As for LHD, 99% of the 964RSs produced were LHD. Only 50 or so were RHD out of a production run of a couple of thousand. The RHD ones have power steering (frowned upon by the hardcore) and underseal (most UK LHD ones will have been waxoyled by now anyway). The prices between LHD and RHD ones have narrowed considerably. The RHD still has a premium of course, but rarity and driving on the 'proper side' has not proven as attractive to the market as it perhaps should have done...the non-PAS and therefore arguably more pure LHD version has the majority appeal.
All the above in my very biased and somewhat warped opinion
A big factor has, surely got to be the nature of the commute.
A previous commute of mine was a 50 mile cross country hack. Average speed 50 odd mph. mmmmm
Now it’s a 2 hour M1 / M25 / M4 or M1 / North Circ effort. Average speed 19mph. I need my head testing.
Both journeys dictate a very different choice of car.
A previous commute of mine was a 50 mile cross country hack. Average speed 50 odd mph. mmmmm
Now it’s a 2 hour M1 / M25 / M4 or M1 / North Circ effort. Average speed 19mph. I need my head testing.
Both journeys dictate a very different choice of car.
Jamie Summers said:
Hmmm, so why am I busy pouring money into a car that will never b worth much mre than I paid for it ?????? Since when have cars and the basic rules of sensible economics ever gone together
Cars only lose money when actually sell them; until then you only actually waste money.
If you put an RS clutch and flywheel in an RS it doesn't increase it's value either. If you crash an RS on track you lose £35K or pay insurance. Crash a C2 and you loose £15k at most.
How many RSs do you see unmodified anyway. Fitting Motec to a C2 costs the same as fitting it to an RS.
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