Do Porsche make a drivers car today ?
Discussion
Add a manual BOX and all of a sudden it's a drivers car it seems !
ALL new cars are over hyped over sold over geared ! and people will pay overs for a product which is less of a drivers car than ever before !
So back to my question.
Do Porsche make a true drivers car today ?
The last new car they made was in fact a Cayman R which had feel to it, nothing else after this car feels as good in the hands, I bet 911R inc.
Hype is selling the GT4 and the Spyder, owners are ga ga over the cars and can see no wrong, most claim "better in every way" in posts when talked about !
Seems the pinnacle of modern water cooled Porsche was the 997.2 RS, a car which to me screams drivers car but older than the Cayman R
So was the Cayman R Porsche last real car with feel ! . If you want feel like that now one has to turn to Lotus, but those cars are not selling and they don't make a NA Evora any more. ODD market.
hype and overs are selling cars, to call these new cars "drivers cars" seems a bit limp imo.
Back In the day when the R won autocars drivers car of the year 2011, you got quotes like this:
"Steve Sutcliffe described the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” while it's ride is “150 times better than it has any right to be considering how little body movement there is when you’re really going for it”."
evo's quote on the R is "Total handling excellence"
when you read about the new cars all you hear is , well it cannot match the feel, the gearing is long, understeer etc etc than they say how great the cars are !!!
long gone are quotes like "steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” :-(
I sold my R which it seems was hugh mistake, Porsche's last great feeling car, a modern 964 RS even !
ALL new cars are over hyped over sold over geared ! and people will pay overs for a product which is less of a drivers car than ever before !
So back to my question.
Do Porsche make a true drivers car today ?
The last new car they made was in fact a Cayman R which had feel to it, nothing else after this car feels as good in the hands, I bet 911R inc.
Hype is selling the GT4 and the Spyder, owners are ga ga over the cars and can see no wrong, most claim "better in every way" in posts when talked about !
Seems the pinnacle of modern water cooled Porsche was the 997.2 RS, a car which to me screams drivers car but older than the Cayman R
So was the Cayman R Porsche last real car with feel ! . If you want feel like that now one has to turn to Lotus, but those cars are not selling and they don't make a NA Evora any more. ODD market.
hype and overs are selling cars, to call these new cars "drivers cars" seems a bit limp imo.
Back In the day when the R won autocars drivers car of the year 2011, you got quotes like this:
"Steve Sutcliffe described the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” while it's ride is “150 times better than it has any right to be considering how little body movement there is when you’re really going for it”."
evo's quote on the R is "Total handling excellence"
when you read about the new cars all you hear is , well it cannot match the feel, the gearing is long, understeer etc etc than they say how great the cars are !!!
long gone are quotes like "steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” :-(
I sold my R which it seems was hugh mistake, Porsche's last great feeling car, a modern 964 RS even !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 10th March 11:24
I assume this thread is just to get a rise out of everyone, so the question has to be, why if you are so unhappy with the latest generation did you buy a GT4 and I still own a GT4? I can only assume you are putting in the leg work now for selling it come Spring, but then, you said you were going to modify it, which I suspect is just your way of trying to seek approval from guys here and you'll soon have it up for sale. If you don't like the GT4, just sell it for Christ sake, no one can think any less of you anyway.
Back to your question though, I suspect you define a "drivers car" as light, raw, rattling, which is why you have a fascination with the Lotus. Similar the Cayman R had a sense of that feeling, but with natural progression, modern day Porsche's are refined, all moving towards touring with comforts, electric steer, less cabin noise etc. I'm sure if someone spec'd the clubsport package in the GT4, had the air-con, radio etc removed, it would feel much more what you seek in a car.
Back to your question though, I suspect you define a "drivers car" as light, raw, rattling, which is why you have a fascination with the Lotus. Similar the Cayman R had a sense of that feeling, but with natural progression, modern day Porsche's are refined, all moving towards touring with comforts, electric steer, less cabin noise etc. I'm sure if someone spec'd the clubsport package in the GT4, had the air-con, radio etc removed, it would feel much more what you seek in a car.
Ignoring the personal comments/context - I have sympathy with OP's view.
Magazine and people like AP are generally part of the marketing hype that has to shout out latest is best. To the extent that when the first Google self-drive car hits the road, the equivalent of AP and Evo Mag will probably call it the best car ever.
Stick on a set of cup 2's on older cars and they are almost as quick
Anyway, I am not suggesting that the latest cars are bad - they are good to great. But modern cars are generally slightly less visceral than the previous generation - or need to be driven even harder to get similar feel out of them.
Magazine and people like AP are generally part of the marketing hype that has to shout out latest is best. To the extent that when the first Google self-drive car hits the road, the equivalent of AP and Evo Mag will probably call it the best car ever.
Stick on a set of cup 2's on older cars and they are almost as quick
Anyway, I am not suggesting that the latest cars are bad - they are good to great. But modern cars are generally slightly less visceral than the previous generation - or need to be driven even harder to get similar feel out of them.
nicely put posts above from 2 members.
Look at what Steve Rance has just built, that looks a mega thing.
The issue there is the costs on buying/finding a nice 964 to build on now are crazy.
yes the R has short falls on brakes for sure. and the 997 GT3 on gearing and trying to get the best out a car when it don't come alive till >6k revs.
Look at what Steve Rance has just built, that looks a mega thing.
The issue there is the costs on buying/finding a nice 964 to build on now are crazy.
yes the R has short falls on brakes for sure. and the 997 GT3 on gearing and trying to get the best out a car when it don't come alive till >6k revs.
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 10th March 12:04
I suppose the question is this: if you had to have either a current Porsche or an older one TO DRIVE (you cannot ever sell it), what would you take?
I can see arguments for a few different cars as maybe being the one I would want:-
(1) 997 GT3 4.0.
(2) 997 GTS (if you want back seats)
(3) Cayman R.
(4) Some form of 993.
I cannot see myself choosing a GT4 or 991 GT3 over any of those. I would not want an auto, and I would not want a torque-monster engine with long gears in a Cayman. The gearing is very important to me - I think it is about right (but slightly long) in a 997, but the GT4 gearing is just stupid.
I can see arguments for a few different cars as maybe being the one I would want:-
(1) 997 GT3 4.0.
(2) 997 GTS (if you want back seats)
(3) Cayman R.
(4) Some form of 993.
I cannot see myself choosing a GT4 or 991 GT3 over any of those. I would not want an auto, and I would not want a torque-monster engine with long gears in a Cayman. The gearing is very important to me - I think it is about right (but slightly long) in a 997, but the GT4 gearing is just stupid.
ORD said:
I suppose the question is this: if you had to have either a current Porsche or an older one TO DRIVE (you cannot ever sell it), what would you take?
I can see arguments for a few different cars as maybe being the one I would want:-
(1) 997 GT3 4.0.
(2) 997 GTS (if you want back seats)
(3) Cayman R.
(4) Some form of 993.
I cannot see myself choosing a GT4 or 991 GT3 over any of those. I would not want an auto, and I would not want a torque-monster engine with long gears in a Cayman. The gearing is very important to me - I think it is about right (but slightly long) in a 997, but the GT4 gearing is just stupid.
If I had the money a 997.2 GT3 RS I would love to try, but having not driven the RS one with the shorter box , it's a risk spending £190k on some thing I might not like and having to sell all my cars to try it which I could never get back.I can see arguments for a few different cars as maybe being the one I would want:-
(1) 997 GT3 4.0.
(2) 997 GTS (if you want back seats)
(3) Cayman R.
(4) Some form of 993.
I cannot see myself choosing a GT4 or 991 GT3 over any of those. I would not want an auto, and I would not want a torque-monster engine with long gears in a Cayman. The gearing is very important to me - I think it is about right (but slightly long) in a 997, but the GT4 gearing is just stupid.
I am so happy with the 987.2 Spyder, but one always thinks what if ! and the roof is so s
t, it's a summer use dry days car, but on the right days it's mega.As someone who bought his first Porsche in the mid 90s and has flirted with various Pork over the years, I'd say that Porsche are going where the money is. Today, that's mainly in showy, easy to drive cars that flatter the driver. The person who wants a true drivers car is part of a shrinking minority. How many people today would drive a car with the characteristics of an early 911 - very quick and effective when driven by someone who's taken the time to really learn how to get the most out of it, but will bite the beginner quite firmly by sending them backwards into the nearest hedge??
Most new Pork seems to be bought by people who want to be 'seen' (not exactly sure by who though) driving a new Porsche, and who have no idea of its capabilities and limits. I recently drove a 981, and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement. If that's an 'upgrade' from my 987, I can't see where - oh, except in the way it looks and how much additional bling has been added. In terms of driving, my current car is far more tactile and gives much better feedback.
Most new Pork seems to be bought by people who want to be 'seen' (not exactly sure by who though) driving a new Porsche, and who have no idea of its capabilities and limits. I recently drove a 981, and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement. If that's an 'upgrade' from my 987, I can't see where - oh, except in the way it looks and how much additional bling has been added. In terms of driving, my current car is far more tactile and gives much better feedback.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
For me, I draw the line between the 9x7 and 9x1. As you may have gathered, my 'toy' is a 987S Gen 1. I've driven 986s and 996s, and recently a 981. The difference from the 986 to 987 is far smaller than the change from the 987 to the 981. Whilst the 987 isn't quite as tactile as the 986, it's not a huge change. The 981 by contrast just felt inert and incredibly remote. As I've said in another post, I don't really see the 981 as an 'upgrade' from the 987, despite it being ultimately faster - I didn't find it as enjoyable to drive. Porsche911R said:
Add a manual BOX and all of a sudden it's a drivers car it seems !
ALL new cars are over hyped over sold over geared ! and people will pay overs for a product which is less of a drivers car than ever before !
So back to my question.
Do Porsche make a true drivers car today ?
The last new car they made was in fact a Cayman R which had feel to it, nothing else after this car feels as good in the hands, I bet 911R inc.
Hype is selling the GT4 and the Spyder, owners are ga ga over the cars and can see no wrong, most claim "better in every way" in posts when talked about !
Seems the pinnacle of modern water cooled Porsche was the 997.2 RS, a car which to me screams drivers car but older than the Cayman R
So was the Cayman R Porsche last real car with feel ! . If you want feel like that now one has to turn to Lotus, but those cars are not selling and they don't make a NA Evora any more. ODD market.
hype and overs are selling cars, to call these new cars "drivers cars" seems a bit limp imo.
Back In the day when the R won autocars drivers car of the year 2011, you got quotes like this:
"Steve Sutcliffe described the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” while it's ride is “150 times better than it has any right to be considering how little body movement there is when you’re really going for it”."
evo's quote on the R is "Total handling excellence"
when you read about the new cars all you hear is , well it cannot match the feel, the gearing is long, understeer etc etc than they say how great the cars are !!!
long gone are quotes like "steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” :-(
I sold my R which it seems was hugh mistake, Porsche's last great feeling car, a modern 964 RS even !
ALL new cars are over hyped over sold over geared ! and people will pay overs for a product which is less of a drivers car than ever before !
So back to my question.
Do Porsche make a true drivers car today ?
The last new car they made was in fact a Cayman R which had feel to it, nothing else after this car feels as good in the hands, I bet 911R inc.
Hype is selling the GT4 and the Spyder, owners are ga ga over the cars and can see no wrong, most claim "better in every way" in posts when talked about !
Seems the pinnacle of modern water cooled Porsche was the 997.2 RS, a car which to me screams drivers car but older than the Cayman R
So was the Cayman R Porsche last real car with feel ! . If you want feel like that now one has to turn to Lotus, but those cars are not selling and they don't make a NA Evora any more. ODD market.
hype and overs are selling cars, to call these new cars "drivers cars" seems a bit limp imo.
Back In the day when the R won autocars drivers car of the year 2011, you got quotes like this:
"Steve Sutcliffe described the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” while it's ride is “150 times better than it has any right to be considering how little body movement there is when you’re really going for it”."
evo's quote on the R is "Total handling excellence"
when you read about the new cars all you hear is , well it cannot match the feel, the gearing is long, understeer etc etc than they say how great the cars are !!!
long gone are quotes like "steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” :-(
I sold my R which it seems was hugh mistake, Porsche's last great feeling car, a modern 964 RS even !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 10th March 11:24
Porsche911R said:
GT4 is sharper in every area, better steering feel, much larger brakes, adjustable suspension, plusher ride, bigger tyre foot print, better turn in, A GT car and has a fixed roof.
The other is a Boxster with 3.8 and sorry to say a roof which is still a poor design, but looks great, the Boxsters a great car and now it has a 3.8 engine.
IF you got a slot either will be free motoring and all are great cars in their own right.
If you did not get a slot a Boxster GTS with a working roof is a nice car at £55k if you want a 981 softtop car and £30k cheaper buy as todays values stand.
or for £65k you can buy a Cayman GTS with buckets etc if you don't want what the GT4 offers, which if you are looking at a 981 Spyder seems more the case, as GT4 owners knew the features they wanted.
some even cancling their Spyder slots once offered a GT4 slot.
http://www.top555.co.uk/stock/details/Porsche-Caym...
Both cars are over hyped by miles imo on PH, Porsche have created a WANT factor and it paid off with these cars, people are ga ga over these 2 new cars !!
OR the older Spyder and R are better drivers cars for feel, 1/2 the price of the new ones and are just more fun and have a great following.
so I have given you 6 cars in the end to think about, all offer something, all great cars, only you know what fits your pocket and driving style.
If I had to pick one for the most fun it would be the 987.2 Spyder, a car I have owned and after owning 65 cars a car I still have which puts the most smiles on my face.
And atm seems the best value car to buy, is rare. only 100 cars in manual, has feel in spades and is one of the lightest cars Porsche have made for years at only 1275kg.
no contest really, £40k and the best drivers car with prices sure to rise.
I am confused.The other is a Boxster with 3.8 and sorry to say a roof which is still a poor design, but looks great, the Boxsters a great car and now it has a 3.8 engine.
IF you got a slot either will be free motoring and all are great cars in their own right.
If you did not get a slot a Boxster GTS with a working roof is a nice car at £55k if you want a 981 softtop car and £30k cheaper buy as todays values stand.
or for £65k you can buy a Cayman GTS with buckets etc if you don't want what the GT4 offers, which if you are looking at a 981 Spyder seems more the case, as GT4 owners knew the features they wanted.
some even cancling their Spyder slots once offered a GT4 slot.
http://www.top555.co.uk/stock/details/Porsche-Caym...
Both cars are over hyped by miles imo on PH, Porsche have created a WANT factor and it paid off with these cars, people are ga ga over these 2 new cars !!
OR the older Spyder and R are better drivers cars for feel, 1/2 the price of the new ones and are just more fun and have a great following.
so I have given you 6 cars in the end to think about, all offer something, all great cars, only you know what fits your pocket and driving style.
If I had to pick one for the most fun it would be the 987.2 Spyder, a car I have owned and after owning 65 cars a car I still have which puts the most smiles on my face.
And atm seems the best value car to buy, is rare. only 100 cars in manual, has feel in spades and is one of the lightest cars Porsche have made for years at only 1275kg.
no contest really, £40k and the best drivers car with prices sure to rise.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Nah. A lot of quasi-Clarksonian abstraction there
996 is just a slightly rougher 997. The Cayman feels less "refined" only in that it has some induction noise. If you get a loud exhaust on a 997, that difference between the two disappears completely. The only remaining difference is that the 997 is less (overly) capable.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree996 - industrial
997 - consumer good
991 - commodity
Anyway, it is all so relative and personal that we can't all share the same opinion. Also depends on what you had personally, how/where you like to drive it, and the experiences it provided to you (ie that road trip, that track day, that lap time, etc)
For me, my experience is limited to the GT models and the 996 is the most personally rewarding. Others may have different experiences/opinions.
Porsche911R said:
"Steve Sutcliffe described the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,” while it's ride is “150 times better than it has any right to be considering how little body movement there is when you’re really going for it”."
Incidentally, that would be the very same Steve Sutcliffe who in 2013, when with Autocar, described the 991 GT3 as the 'best sports car Porsche have ever made'.Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 10th March 11:24
Do Porsche make a drivers car today?
Well, yes....the 981 Spyder. Few have experienced the delights of this car which, being superior in all respects to the obsolete 987 Spyder with its laughable 'tent' (which automatically disintegrates at 120mph lol)and in many respects overshadows even the mighty Ecoty winning GT4. OK, so the Spyder isn t as track focused as the GT4 but its not meant to be. In real world driving on fast A and B roads it is as rapid and engaging as the GT4, sounds better, attracts more attention, is broadly more usable, much much rarer and is a better sense of occassion too especially with the top down.
981 Spyder is in many ways to the GT4 what the R may be to the 991 GT3. And not just down to the skinnier tyres.
Probably.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff