997 turbo upgrade/s questions

[lgargour]

Dear PH'ers have a 997 2009 is that gen 1 or 2... turbo after crashing my highly modified 996 turbo the things it liked were

bigger turbos garret ball bearing k 28
manifolds
free flow exhaust
hard pipes
k&n 3 way all around
997 steel brakes
massive map
and a 100hp nos kit

now 997 seems like it needs the same types of mods can i ask the experts....

manifold are large tube 45 mill a waste of money is standard unit OK as the bit from engine to turbo is not restrictive any recommendations here seen some from top gear seem ok...

does it like or need K&N air filters is that part of intake restricted at all
mass flow does that need adapting?
air intake vents tubes are those an issue

brakes seem soft can I get crisp non fading road stopping with 380mm disk upgrade (i have 350) and pagid yellows or must i shell out notes for pccb oh and besides pagid yellow any other cheaper pad alternatives

suspension this puppy is a handful when the back breaks loose do the bigger anti roll from gt2 just make problem worse I like dampers and the adaptability can i lower springs and keep dampers as they are any remaps for dampers?

front dives under hard braking any suggestions?

any other handling or performance oriented suggestions

[berty37]

Hi mate I'd imagine you have a what is called a gen 1.5 if you have a touch screen sat nav.Mezger engine largely based on the on the one from your old 996. There is a very nice chap on here called Imran (IMI A) who has turned his stock 997 turbo into a total beast so he is a very good person to ask I would say. I think he had the work done with Ken at 9e who again appears to be one of the experts on this sort of thing (no affiliation). He was telling me the 997 has to be done a bit differently because of the VTG turbos and the cooling etc etc.
Hope that points you in he right direction...

[IMIA]

Hi OP

Depends on your budget and how much power you want really. Tuning a 997t is much harder than a 996t as VTGS get hotter than conventional turbos and then start pulling ignition often resulting in a car which after hard use is slower than stock.

Beyond 650-700hp threshold you should go conventional turbos.

Nine Excellence are leading the Porsche tuning market in the UK and they win just about every VMAX event but they have strong competition on world stage from ES Motors in Turkey. 9ff, Ruf, and Cargraphic (Parr are their UK agents) from Germany. In the US Champion, BBI Motorsport, Evolution Motorsport and Protomotive are all building very fast cars indeed.

I'd use her stock for a few months and decide if you like VTGS or the power delivery on your old 996t and then make a decision re tune.

Most people just opt for flash and exhaust which is fine but as i mentioned often results in a slower car 0-300 kph than stock. The guys who go this route quite rightly point out that who in the world ever runs their car for repeated runs 0-300kph and they're quite right, if you're not going to use you car like this a flash and exhaust is fine and its by far the most cost effective route.

Few links worth reading. I did 8 years research before opting for my tune and its a bit of a minefield out there when it comes to tuning as you probably already know.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=28&...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Imi

[lgargour]

imi thks for those links the frst i had read really good the second well the crazy dutchman was mentioned hendrinks with whom i had a food fight at big esy last i saw him small world

do the headers make a difference have sourced a 9ff rear box and cats so ...thinking heders exhaut and a remap for now

[IMIA]

lgargour said:

imi thks for those links the frst i had read really good the second well the crazy dutchman was mentioned hendrinks with whom i had a food fight at big esy last i saw him small world

do the headers make a difference have sourced a 9ff rear box and cats so ...thinking heders exhaut and a remap for now

nah headers really only make a difference above 750-800bhp. The stock headers on a 997 are fine. You're better off with an uprated clutch and maybe also GT2 RS coolers (quite cheap) so your new map holds extra power better.

[lgargour]

intercoolers were the one mod that brought the 996 to life any aftermarket ones you rate btw fearnsport matt c did the work good guys on turbos at one point i ran straightpipes out the back brendon j had a db tester 152 at 6000 dont recommend that and sounds crap due to turbos driving today and front end went a bit soft at high speed does lowering it help? any flash or remap of shocks possible?

[IMIA]

lgargour said:

intercoolers were the one mod that brought the 996 to life any aftermarket ones you rate btw fearnsport matt c did the work good guys on turbos at one point i ran straightpipes out the back brendon j had a db tester 152 at 6000 dont recommend that and sounds crap due to turbos driving today and front end went a bit soft at high speed does lowering it help? any flash or remap of shocks possible?

Fearnsport still top notch as far as I'm aware.

Lowering is really for aesthetics lol but ride not much worse and handling has improved 100% but this may be more down to wheel/tyre combo or a combination of everything as I have a rear GT2 anti roll bar too. Stock shocks are very soft in normal mode no getting round that but I like them for pootling around. In sport mode my car is pretty stiff but I do have new OEM shocks all round. I've used her on track and for my skill level the OEM shocks are fine but will defo upgrade when they wear out - I was lucky enough to have them replaced under warranty before I upgraded the car so no point not using them. They should be good for another 100,000 miles hopefully!

On the intercoolers for the money you cannot beat GT2 RS coolers but these look interesting if a bit of a pain to fit http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/3...

AMS intercoolers are also very good. I've run against this guy and I think Matt at Fearnsport did a lot of the early work on his car. He's v.quick and his 68mm VTG turbos are probably the quickest VTG set up on the market http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/3...

TPC remap your shocks and make them fully active and stop the dive etc http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/997-turbo-gt2/3...

GTR Nick has the remap and rates the TPC unit. Another Pher had 4 units and they were all faulty so I'm waiting a few years for them to develop the product a bit more.

[lgargour]

Interesting you mention the larger anti sway bar as there is a forum discussing the benefits and drawbacks essentially it seems like the bigger bars will cause the backend to break loose in a more binary way but give you more traction until it breaks loose what are your thoughts having put the bigger bars on is that is a very low cost and interesting upgrade

[lgargour]

Wow very cool thank you for giving me the post for the upgrade on the shocks as everything electronic these they should be able to be modified that way

[IMIA]

lgargour said:

Interesting you mention the larger anti sway bar as there is a forum discussing the benefits and drawbacks essentially it seems like the bigger bars will cause the backend to break loose in a more binary way but give you more traction until it breaks loose what are your thoughts having put the bigger bars on is that is a very low cost and interesting upgrade

I think its a really good cost effective mod. I've put wider 12 inch rear wheels on and wider front wheels too and the car now sticks to the road like a limpet with virtually no understeer which is something i hated about her when stock. She now corners so hard with good initial turn in and with so much grip on cup 2 tyres it literally feels like the shell is going to rip itself away from the chassis lol. IPD 82mm plenum with gt3 throttle body and high flow y pipe worth looking at too as a relatively inexpensive mod which gives you an easy 25-30bhp. Lots have people have said that dyno shows the IPD stuff doesn't work but my car is quicker than a similar car without the 82 mm plenum all vboxed etc and we are running the same tune with mostly the same hardware although my exhaust has less back pressure so this also needs to be taken into consideration.

[IMIA]

Having said that when the tyres are cold or when its wet I do have to be much more careful as the back end does let go without giving you notice!

[lgargour]

got the box from us gus for suspension how did youmate know the ones he had were 'bad' btw who is the best mapper around? seen the roll bar threads on why bigger is not better

[IMIA]

lgargour said:

got the box from us gus for suspension how did youmate know the ones he had were 'bad' btw who is the best mapper around? seen the roll bar threads on why bigger is not better

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-turbo-forum/852626-tpc-dsc-opinions-3.html

re maps - On US side Todd Knighton at Protomotive and Cobb very good.

Cargraphic, Ruf, FVD and 9ff very good in Europe.

Parr, 9e, JZM, Fearnsport and DMS in UK.

Emre at ES Motors from Turkey very good too. Take your pick all these guys can send you a map remotely to upload. I'd say a GT2 rear anti roll bar a must with wider 325 and 245 sticky tyres

[lgargour]

you area star that tread was great seeing solid engine mounts as a mod many people are doing what are your thoughts in terms of anti roll bars what ae the recommondation on diameter as gt2 i believe are 26 and 24mm and is it rear and front or rear only? lowering springs seem another simple effective mod but too low and they hit on the stops any recomondations here

[IMIA]

lgargour said:

you area star that tread was great seeing solid engine mounts as a mod many people are doing what are your thoughts in terms of anti roll bars what ae the recommondation on diameter as gt2 i believe are 26 and 24mm and is it rear and front or rear only? lowering springs seem another simple effective mod but too low and they hit on the stops any recomondations here

GT2 rear anti roll bar only. You want the rear stiff and front soft so she turns in. i wouldn't go with solid engine mounts as too noisy and too much vibration. Good mod though if you're tracking her.

I run H&R -20 mm springs but if they're too low for you go with Eibach which are -15mm. Again springs are a good mod and I may order the PASM remap from TPC at some stage but for my skill level the current set up I use is fine.

[lgargour]

Hi on the wheel size increase what size wheels works well in the front. And what wheels and tyres are you using pleas thanks LOUIS

[IMI A]

Pmd

[Just an old porsche fan]

IMIA said:

GT2 rear anti roll bar only. You want the rear stiff and front soft so she turns in. i wouldn't go with solid engine mounts as too noisy and too much vibration. Good mod though if you're tracking her.

I run H&R -20 mm springs but if they're too low for you go with Eibach which are -15mm. Again springs are a good mod and I may order the PASM remap from TPC at some stage but for my skill level the current set up I use is fine.

I've got RSS engine mounts on my 996 Turbo. Not that noisy and the vibration is minimal, you mainly feel it at tickover. Excellent mod though, makes the back end feel a litle bit more connected and there is no more feeling of the engine twisiting when you floor it. Also seems to make gear changes between 2nd and 3rd easier when under hard accleration.

[Digga]

IMIA said:

nah headers really only make a difference above 750-800bhp. The stock headers on a 997 are fine. You're better off with an uprated clutch and maybe also GT2 RS coolers (quite cheap) so your new map holds extra power better.

Not sure if 996 turbo headers are different, but mine were non-standard on the car when I got it. The car had had a (poorly executed) EvomsIt re-map and so, via Mike at Sports & Classic, it was re-done by Wayne at Chipwizards. Prior to Waynes re-map, they put the (latest, OEM) standard map back on and the car was making 445bhp, which they could only attribute to the headers.

[IMI A]

For day to day driving a 997 turbo the best mods I carried out were the TPC DSC module which fixes the PASM. Still not as good as the best passive set up but totally transforms the bouncy ride in a 997 turbo. The other was the sports exhaust - lots of good ones out there - I went for a Europipe stage 2. On a limited budget these are the two must have mods on a 997 turbo IMO. Strong argument for a 997 turbo doesn't really need anything other than these two mods though as 480bhp stock is plenty fast in the real world. The Europipe stage 2 actually liberates circa 35 bhp to be fair in the mid range but top end without a remap the ECU corrects this back down to 480bhp at the top end.