Tiptronic Gearbox
Discussion
Never driven a tip but there are 3 flavours AFAIK:
964/968/early 993 - 4 speed with manual override using the gearlever
late 993 - tiptronic S - 4 speed with steering wheel buttons
Boxster/996/997 - 5 speed with steering wheel buttons
All are basically a conventional torque converter auto with a manual gearchange facility
964/968/early 993 - 4 speed with manual override using the gearlever
late 993 - tiptronic S - 4 speed with steering wheel buttons
Boxster/996/997 - 5 speed with steering wheel buttons
All are basically a conventional torque converter auto with a manual gearchange facility
Hi trev
I had a 993 Tip. Great car. Not as much fun as a geared car, but great in London where you sit in traffic jams most of the time. Car was still quick but there is quite a big difference compared to a manual. Also, it really is only a conventional auto, despite the name Tiptronic. You rarely use the Tip funtion as it is nowhere near like the new paddle shift sytems in the Ferrari etc... So if you do a lot of town driving, it is far more relaxing. Depends what you want.
I had a 993 Tip. Great car. Not as much fun as a geared car, but great in London where you sit in traffic jams most of the time. Car was still quick but there is quite a big difference compared to a manual. Also, it really is only a conventional auto, despite the name Tiptronic. You rarely use the Tip funtion as it is nowhere near like the new paddle shift sytems in the Ferrari etc... So if you do a lot of town driving, it is far more relaxing. Depends what you want.
In December's PCA Panorama magazine, former racer and Porsche instructor Rick Bye talks about how to get the most out of the Tip. He talks about left-foot braking it and quickly planting the gas to the floor and quickly releasing to get it to downshift. One blip per gear, if I read it right. He recons the Tip is a bit misunderstood. Said if he had only one 911 it would be a manual, but if he had a second one for the track he would choose a tiptronic.
Never drove one myself.
Paul
Never drove one myself.
Paul
I have a 993 tip and it is great to drive - the manual mode changes the instant you flick the lever, unless that would damage the engine. I have driven BMWs with tiptronic gearboxes and they are alot more nannying.
Interestingly I have the original 993 sales brochure and it claims that 7 out of 10 'normal' drivers go faster in the car with a tiptronic box rather than a manual!! This is Porsche's claim, not mine.
Ian
Interestingly I have the original 993 sales brochure and it claims that 7 out of 10 'normal' drivers go faster in the car with a tiptronic box rather than a manual!! This is Porsche's claim, not mine.
Ian
The tip on the 968 is a 4-speed box on a gate across from D(rive). Push forward/back for up/down.
Smooth enough but not a patch on the 6-speed manual. You might as well leave it in automatic mode 99% of the time. The only advantages of the tip over leaving it auto-mode is you can pull away in 1st (the auto box tends to select 2nd) and you can drop gears to help with braking.
>> Edited by MrHeed on Monday 20th December 21:38
Smooth enough but not a patch on the 6-speed manual. You might as well leave it in automatic mode 99% of the time. The only advantages of the tip over leaving it auto-mode is you can pull away in 1st (the auto box tends to select 2nd) and you can drop gears to help with braking.
>> Edited by MrHeed on Monday 20th December 21:38
Ian,
IMHO, Thats probably correct.
Drivers with manual would have to time the gear change precisely in order to achieve top performance.
Two problems with this :
1. Most average drivers dont have the reaction for this.
2. If an average driver tried this too often, they would also wear the clutch out very quickly.
With the tip, the driver doesnt have to control the shift so the performance is likely to be constant and will achieve the full capabaility of the tip.
>> Edited by bins on Tuesday 21st December 10:04
IMHO, Thats probably correct.
Drivers with manual would have to time the gear change precisely in order to achieve top performance.
Two problems with this :
1. Most average drivers dont have the reaction for this.
2. If an average driver tried this too often, they would also wear the clutch out very quickly.
With the tip, the driver doesnt have to control the shift so the performance is likely to be constant and will achieve the full capabaility of the tip.
>> Edited by bins on Tuesday 21st December 10:04
bins said:
Ian,
IMHO, Thats probably correct.
Drivers with manual would have to time the gear change precisely in order to achieve top performance.
Two problems with this :
1. Most average drivers dont have the reaction for this.
2. If an average driver tried this too often, they would also wear the clutch out very quickly.
With the tip, the driver doesnt have to control the shift so the performance is likely to be constant and will achieve the full capabaility of the tip.
>> Edited by bins on Tuesday 21st December 10:04
Do clutches last longer on tip cars then?
Pr1964 said:
burnt said:
Do clutches last longer on tip cars then?
Answer. Tiptronic boxes don't have clutches.
Which is one of the two positives to having a tiptronic, the other being they are easier to drive in stop start traffic.
I personally have never known a tip box That has needed clutches, they are a basic auto box that is full of fluid, Yes if fluid runs low clutches will burn out but ive never know it but can happen.
Drive a manual like a wally clutch can last 1000 miles if your lucky,
Im of the opinion as well for town traffic tips the way to go But it you can drive like the stig. manual can be for you,
Drive a manual like a wally clutch can last 1000 miles if your lucky,
Im of the opinion as well for town traffic tips the way to go But it you can drive like the stig. manual can be for you,
pfecteau said:
In December's PCA Panorama magazine, former racer and Porsche instructor Rick Bye talks about how to get the most out of the Tip. He talks about left-foot braking it and quickly planting the gas to the floor and quickly releasing to get it to downshift. One blip per gear, if I read it right. He recons the Tip is a bit misunderstood. Said if he had only one 911 it would be a manual, but if he had a second one for the track he would choose a tiptronic.
Never drove one myself.
Paul
Just to clarify this (old) point; if you blip the throttle 25%, it will drop a gear; if you blip it 50%, it will drop 2 gears.Never drove one myself.
Paul
If you get it on the right kind of roads it can be a lot of fun.
As stated, Porsche tiptronic gearbox has clutch packs. There are several clutches in the gearbox. This is how it changes gear together with the TC which creates a vacuum. It has a TCU to control the shifting amongst other things.
These clutch plates wear out. IIRC there are 8 for the first two gears, 6 for the third gear and so on. On most cars, the first sign of slippage is in 3rd gear, because it has the fewest clutches.
I know because I just spent a fortunate upgrading the things!
These clutch plates wear out. IIRC there are 8 for the first two gears, 6 for the third gear and so on. On most cars, the first sign of slippage is in 3rd gear, because it has the fewest clutches.
I know because I just spent a fortunate upgrading the things!
Manual is the only one to have if you enjoy driving the car how it should be. If you are stuck in traffic in central London all day thats the only time I can see a Tiptronic box being worthwhile.
Hate the steering wheel controls and the damn thing doesn't change when you want it to. Manual everytime for me so much so I effectively paid £10k more for one over a similar car with Tip
Hate the steering wheel controls and the damn thing doesn't change when you want it to. Manual everytime for me so much so I effectively paid £10k more for one over a similar car with Tip
Sunnysidebb said:
The problem with some people when they post on here is they are prejudice, or should I say "Boxis't". They write about their stereotypical view or experience of the " standard Automatic".
Well forget all about the " Standard Auto" and have a test drive of a Tip and leave it in the Manual position. Then go and frighten yourself on a quiet bit of road and I assure you,you will find them much more fun than you could imagine. Upgrade with some power mods and it becomes very handy not to have to remove you hands from the wheel, just flick the switch to change Up or Down. Or in Kens place, pull the gorgeous paddles on his wheel.
The box is very good at what it does, but if anyone wants to have an attack on the Tip concept, then the argument can only be with driving styles not on performance. Some people are very much going to miss a Clutch and Gear Shift. Its like giving up smoking, you dont know what to do with your hands. Well its the same with a Tip, once you get used to keeping your hands on the wheel covering the change buttons you soon get to like the driving style.
Of course you can put the box into the auto mode, but I honestly cant discuss that, because I have never driven the car in Auto. Never Never Never. Driving in Manual mode is the nearest to driving a fully sequential rally car dog box. If your left foot becomes bored, use it to hold the car at lights etc, apply power with your right and then slowly release the brake with your left. Gives much better pull aways and keeps your left foot active.
Frank.
X2 My 996TT is a tip.. car changes when you want if you use it as a manual.. I Love it so much ive had it 4 years and never kept a car that long,, Just bought the missus a tip boxster , Well forget all about the " Standard Auto" and have a test drive of a Tip and leave it in the Manual position. Then go and frighten yourself on a quiet bit of road and I assure you,you will find them much more fun than you could imagine. Upgrade with some power mods and it becomes very handy not to have to remove you hands from the wheel, just flick the switch to change Up or Down. Or in Kens place, pull the gorgeous paddles on his wheel.
The box is very good at what it does, but if anyone wants to have an attack on the Tip concept, then the argument can only be with driving styles not on performance. Some people are very much going to miss a Clutch and Gear Shift. Its like giving up smoking, you dont know what to do with your hands. Well its the same with a Tip, once you get used to keeping your hands on the wheel covering the change buttons you soon get to like the driving style.
Of course you can put the box into the auto mode, but I honestly cant discuss that, because I have never driven the car in Auto. Never Never Never. Driving in Manual mode is the nearest to driving a fully sequential rally car dog box. If your left foot becomes bored, use it to hold the car at lights etc, apply power with your right and then slowly release the brake with your left. Gives much better pull aways and keeps your left foot active.
Frank.
Pr1964 said:
996ttalot said:
As stated, Porsche tiptronic gearbox has clutch packs. There are several clutches in the gearbox. This is how it changes gear together with the TC which creates a vacuum. It has a TCU to control the shifting amongst other things.
These clutch plates wear out. IIRC there are 8 for the first two gears, 6 for the third gear and so on. On most cars, the first sign of slippage is in 3rd gear, because it has the fewest clutches.
I know because I just spent a fortunate upgrading the things!
Yes but they are not the same kind on clutch used on a manual box.These clutch plates wear out. IIRC there are 8 for the first two gears, 6 for the third gear and so on. On most cars, the first sign of slippage is in 3rd gear, because it has the fewest clutches.
I know because I just spent a fortunate upgrading the things!
You've been unlucky because the tiptronic box should outlast the car it's a zf auto which has been adapted by Porsche and Bosch.
What did it cost for the repair work? What model etc?
It is actually a Merc Benz box in the 996 turbo (zf was for 993/964 iirc).
Not a question of being unluckly in my case, just that a std 996tt box (722.3 MBenz) cannot handle the power I am putting down. That is why I had the box upgraded to have kelvar clutches, bigger housing, upgraded TCU and TQ etc. Check my garage for more information.
Edited by 996ttalot on Thursday 2nd December 21:19
yellowgriff said:
My 996TT is a tip.. car changes when you want if you use it as a manual..
test drove a TT tip, never took it out of manual, but it still changed without my asking to, usually up when I was at a constant speed (when you could change up but i didn't want it to as I was planning a further burst of acceleration)Adam B said:
yellowgriff said:
My 996TT is a tip.. car changes when you want if you use it as a manual..
test drove a TT tip, never took it out of manual, but it still changed without my asking to, usually up when I was at a constant speed (when you could change up but i didn't want it to as I was planning a further burst of acceleration)Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff