Discussion
The PPI discussion has been done to the death and we have all discussed the pros and cons of the various mobile inspectors vs taking it to an independent vs the Porsch 111 point check.
What we seem to have missed (correct me if I'm wrong) is what happens after PPI. If the inspection suggests there's need for various bits to be put right, how can you be sure it has been done properly, if at all.
This is not so much of a problem where the dealer does not have his own workshop as there will be receipts to prove the work was done, but how do we know that a dealer (OPC or Indy) will actually perform the work properly or actually even do the work promised... short of having a second PPI?!
The last thing you want is the PPI finding faults, dealer agrees to rectify, actually rectifies with sticking plaster, plaster comes off after 6 months and you have to spend £000s to fix it.
What we seem to have missed (correct me if I'm wrong) is what happens after PPI. If the inspection suggests there's need for various bits to be put right, how can you be sure it has been done properly, if at all.
This is not so much of a problem where the dealer does not have his own workshop as there will be receipts to prove the work was done, but how do we know that a dealer (OPC or Indy) will actually perform the work properly or actually even do the work promised... short of having a second PPI?!
The last thing you want is the PPI finding faults, dealer agrees to rectify, actually rectifies with sticking plaster, plaster comes off after 6 months and you have to spend £000s to fix it.
The same can be said for any repair. Presumably if you believe that the dealer may use a plaster to repair the car after PPI, then maybe look for recommendations of other deales. If the plaster comes off after 6 months, presumably you would have the same comeback as you would if you'd paid for a repair yourself.
Fair point Tino, but I wouldn't trust any dealer to do it properly... I mean what's the incentive for them to put in a brand new part compared with a second hand one they have on the shelf as no one will know. Clearly the more they spend on the car after the deal has been done, the less they make.
is there no trust left in the world? Perhaps they'll let you stand and watch whilst they do it?
ETA I had heard that most dealers have a big used parts bin. When they rip you off and change parts that aren't needed (like disks and pads), they keep the old bits to put on to pretend they've fixed other people's PPI stuff. It's rife I've heard.
Bert
ETA I had heard that most dealers have a big used parts bin. When they rip you off and change parts that aren't needed (like disks and pads), they keep the old bits to put on to pretend they've fixed other people's PPI stuff. It's rife I've heard.
Bert
Jon996 said:
Fair point Tino, but I wouldn't trust any dealer to do it properly... I mean what's the incentive for them to put in a brand new part compared with a second hand one they have on the shelf as no one will know. Clearly the more they spend on the car after the deal has been done, the less they make.
I've visited more than one Porsche dealer service department and I have yet to see any stockpile of old parts laying about. There have been times when between jobs the tech is dumping the old part into the bin if the customer didn't want the old part.BTW, I almost always ask for the old parts. Not that I don't trust the tech but to study the old part to see what if anything I can learn. A few times I have not asked for the old part back because it is too messy. The rear spoiler on my Turbo for instance. But I did see the new one in the box and the old one on the bench and snapped some pics but I have no room for that thing where I live so I left it on his bench to dispose of.
BTW, if the invoice doesn't list the part as used that's fraud. I seriously doubt a dealer is going to risk that for the extra profit when if fraud is found out -- all it takes is one disgruntled ex-employee... -- the dealer loses its Porsche affiliation and a million dollar or more facility is rendered virtually worthless overnight.
And an indy has the same incentive to cut corners. One told me I could not supply the oil as he need the mark up to help stay in business. Running that close to the edge sure brings with it the temptation to use old or salvaged parts.
Which reminds me I was visiting a Porsche parts salvage business some months ago and was talking to the crew and they told me of one indy shop in my area that was buying lots of parts from their place. So this one indy shop was using used/salvaged parts. Now I do not know if the shop was claiming it was using new parts or being up front and telling the customer used parts were being used or giving the customer the option of new or used parts, etc.
Surely any dealership with it's own servicing dept would fully check the car and know exactly what it needs doing (would be worrying if they didn't!). The reason the dealer doesn't do certain things is because he doesn't need to in order to get a sale and knows that doing something properly will not increase sales price and therefore depress profit.
If PPI then identifies such issues, is the dealer really likely to do something that he didn't want to do in the first place?
If PPI then identifies such issues, is the dealer really likely to do something that he didn't want to do in the first place?
Jon996 said:
Fair point Tino, but I wouldn't trust any dealer to do it properly... I mean what's the incentive for them to put in a brand new part compared with a second hand one they have on the shelf as no one will know. Clearly the more they spend on the car after the deal has been done, the less they make.
In fairness, you are buying a box full of used parts buying a used car.Do you mean you are unsure if the selling dealer rectifies the faults found during a PPI done by a third party?
If so, as long as the repair is done, what does it matter if they used new or used parts?
I've worked for a few main agents, and have never seen used parts used on a car. Maybe factory recon, but these are like new anyway, only re-using casings.
It could be either. Either the dealer doesn't bother to replace something be it oil, coolant, or a part. Or perhaps there's a leak somewhere and rather than replacing a pipe, the dealer could well indeed patch the leak which should only be a temporary measure and a few months later the leak reoccurs.
I'm sure it happens, especially as any extra work is eating into the dealer's profit margins.
I'm sure it happens, especially as any extra work is eating into the dealer's profit margins.
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