Porsche 993 declared best ever 911 model by Autocar....

[david hockney]

Well,kind of, according to this video anyway......in his opinion....

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-50-years-...

[turbo-ww]

Works for me

[Old Trout]

"911 has put on some weight"

991 is 50kgs lighter than the 993

[Raitzi]

Clearly video was not made to really compare each version thoroughly but give something to watch as presenters tell their opinion.(snow driving is not really the best test to compare differences)
BTW Evo liked 996 more.

[mollytherocker]

Old Trout said:

"911 has put on some weight"

991 is 50kgs lighter than the 993

I think Steve was talking about its physical size, when you listen to the context of how he says it. Whilst driving them back tp back slowly around a snowy track is hardly a thorough comparative test, his comments about the 993 certainly ring true with my own views.

[Schnellmann]

Old Trout said:

"911 has put on some weight"

991 is 50kgs lighter than the 993

But nearly 500 kg more than the original, which I think was Steve's point.

[jackal]

I'd have one of each personally.

I've not driven a 991 but as a sort of luxo compact panamera i'd love one of them too.

[mollytherocker]

jackal said:

I'd have one of each personally.

I've not driven a 991 but as a sort of luxo compact panamera i'd love one of them too.

Well yes, that would be the ideal! You seem to be on your way to just that!

[TB993tt]

Old Trout said:

"911 has put on some weight"

991 is 50kgs lighter than the 993

In 993 days Porsche used to quote fairly accurate weight stats so when they said the 993 turbo weighed 1500kg DIN the normally optioned car did actually weigh right around 1500kg.

Now days they use the weight of basic very lightly optioned cars for their DIN weights this is why the Carrera S PDK which they state as weighing 1415kg DIN actually weighs nearer 1500kg with normal options (as measured by Sport Auto).

My point being in reality a 993 Carrera will weigh less than a 991 Carrera MT.

[mrdemon]

993 stuck in the middle of nothing imo.

1 off lights, not old enough to be classic but dated enough to be nasty inside.
964 wins hands down for me after the early 1970's cars , better value as well.

[Wozy68]

mrdemon said:

993 stuck in the middle of nothing imo.

1 off lights, not old enough to be classic but dated enough to be nasty inside.
964 wins hands down for me after the early 1970's cars , better value as well.

This utterly amazes me. What an absolute pile of pants.


How you think a 964 is better value is beyond me. A low mileage 964 (If you found one that is) is hardly different in price to a 993 these days. Even a high mileage 964 can be 18K, guess how much I paid for my high mileage 993.

Nasty interior? The 964 and the 993 are just about identical inside, and a lovely place to be.

Both have their own different characteristics.

[Old Trout]

jackal said:

I'd have one of each personally.

I've not driven a 991 but as a sort of luxo compact panamera i'd love one of them too.

Having driven both the Panamera and a 991 (4,500 miles now) I can assure you, hopefully positively, that a 991 is pretty much nothing like a Panamera to drive. The sitting experience is Panamera like with a similar cabin architecture, but the 991 is a very different animal.

From my own experience the more I drive the 991 the more I like it. And that is coming from two GT3s back to back.

My future dream garage will be a 996 GT3 (I see you love yours) and a 991 daily driver.

[Old Trout]

PS And the initial sense of 'bulk' has worn off. In reality hardly any bigger than a 997 and certainly no wider - however the sighting reference points can make the car hard to place initially (which I know is a traditional 911 virtue).

[wildman0609]

TB993tt said:

In 993 days Porsche used to quote fairly accurate weight stats so when they said the 993 turbo weighed 1500kg DIN the normally optioned car did actually weigh right around 1500kg.

Now days they use the weight of basic very lightly optioned cars for their DIN weights this is why the Carrera S PDK which they state as weighing 1415kg DIN actually weighs nearer 1500kg with normal options (as measured by Sport Auto).

My point being in reality a 993 Carrera will weigh less than a 991 Carrera MT.

there is an ISO standard which defines the way in which a car is weighed officially. All vehicle manufacturers will have to follow this standard, it was around way before the 993 was around. the difference now is the 991 has much more options to add to the weight of the vehicle. its ISO 1176.

[TB993tt]

wildman0609 said:

there is an ISO standard which defines the way in which a car is weighed officially. All vehicle manufacturers will have to follow this standard, it was around way before the 993 was around. the difference now is the 991 has much more options to add to the weight of the vehicle. its ISO 1176.

Yup hence my continual use of "DIN" but for eg the 993 turbo was quoted DIN/ISO including eg electric heated (I think) sports seats, a/c, sunroof, premium (for the day) sound system whereas now days they just use a very unoptioned car for this measurement.

They said the Carrera GT weighed 1380kg DIN but the road cars weighed more like 1470kg DIN - I know I put one on the scales

997GT2 supposed to be 1440kg, most were around 1500kg, I specced mine "lighty" and it came in at 1455kg.... etc.....

The 997 GT3s were the worst and the discrepancy from what the factory said caused much angst and forum inches from the Yanks

[crisisjez]

Heaven help Porsche if the people who buy cars think so too.

[Koln-RS]

TB993tt said:

The 997 GT3s were the worst and the discrepancy from what the factory said caused much angst and forum inches from the Yanks

Weren't the US buyers most annoyed by the non-delete electric sunroof - added weight in exactly the wrong place.

I saw the Autocar article. Hardly a definitive test, just an interesting space filler. Quite a few specific models weren't included. There will never be agreement on which is the best variant.

[jackal]

Old Trout said:

jackal said:

I'd have one of each personally.

I've not driven a 991 but as a sort of luxo compact panamera i'd love one of them too.

Having driven both the Panamera and a 991 (4,500 miles now) I can assure you, hopefully positively, that a 991 is pretty much nothing like a Panamera to drive. The sitting experience is Panamera like with a similar cabin architecture, but the 991 is a very different animal.

From my own experience the more I drive the 991 the more I like it. And that is coming from two GT3s back to back.

My future dream garage will be a 996 GT3 (I see you love yours) and a 991 daily driver.

Sorry, didnt mean to say that they drive exactly the same ... rather i would use the 991 for the same role as i would a panny

[tickious]

Never really got yo grips with all the different 911, is there a site explaining what's what? so I can fill the gap in my knowledge.

[anonymous-user]

993 is, not surprisingly, the best of the air cooled cars in terms of refinement, but I prefer the look and character of the 964, the hewn from rock feel of the 3.2 (but not the weighty helm on turn in) and the deftness and balance of the early seventies S and RS.
Unless you have been lucky enough to drive a well sorted early 2.2/2.4S or a 2.7RS it is hard to understand just how good 911 steering can be, and how supple the ride is compared to today's over tyred cars. Bloody noisy though....
Frankly I would love to own all of the above!